Case Peanut - Major sharpening issues

[Chizzholm]

Hey guys!

Today I received my Case Peanut CV in yellow delrin. Beautiful knife, clip blade is favouring a side a bit but there doesn't appear to be any rubbing.

But, I was quite disappointed with the edge after unboxing.. I read through the "cult of peanut" thread and many people said that they only needed to strop their peanut and it was like a razor blade.

Welp, I tried that. Nothing. I tried the ceramic mug, I tried frosted part of a car window nothing. Still nothing, I just can't seem to develop an edge on this small knife.

I chase the burr back and forth and can feel the burr form - I can't even it out.

So as a last ditch attempt, I used my only sharpening system Lansky, and made a ghetto sharpening stone (see photo). Same issue continuously.

I think the edge needs to be re-profiled to 30 degrees but it is to small of a blade to use with my Lansky system.

Any tips on how to make the Lansky work with this small knife or how to obtain an edge?

Should I just invest in some stones and learn to freehand or a Spyderco Sharpmaker?

- Ryan


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[Chizzholm]

Yes that is my nieces play-doh holding the stone steady.


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[Gary W. Graley]

AH, I thought it was chewing gum !!!

They can be tricky to sharpen, possibly different stones might help, I use some shaptons and some chosera's that work great, but you should be able to use just about anything, unless the heat treat is off on that one for some reason.

G2

 

[matt009au]

Why not bolt it into the lansky and get it all set up nicely?

 

[Chizzholm]

Why not bolt it into the lansky and get it all set up nicely?

Well I wish it were this easy but here's the problem with that!

By the time you bolt it in with the Lansky and get the blade in there all snug, your only left with maybe a cm and 1/2 of edge to work with. The stone hits the clamp.


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[traumkommode]

I remember sharpening a peanut on the Lansky- just had to use a higher angle but it cleared the clamp. And fine because the blade stock is so thin. I'd be happy to sharpen it for you.

 

[supratentorial]

I think peoples opinions about "sharp" varies greatly.

Freehand sharpening would give you the greatest freedom.

If you aren't adept at freehand sharpening, you could prop a stone at the correct angle like the design of the Spyderco Sharpmaker. If you have a Sharpmaker, you could prop a coarse or medium diamond stone against the ceramic stones and then finish with the ceramic.

 

[Chizzholm]

I think peoples opinions about "sharp" varies greatly.

Freehand sharpening would give you the greatest freedom.

If you aren't adept at freehand sharpening, you could prop a stone at the correct angle like the design of the Spyderco Sharpmaker. If you have a Sharpmaker, you could prop a coarse or medium diamond stone against the ceramic stones and then finish with the ceramic.

I don't have high standards for sharpness, but this is like bad - it'll just push the paper out of the way when I attempt to cut it.

I'll have to look into stones!


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[Chizzholm]

I remember sharpening a peanut on the Lansky- just had to use a higher angle but it cleared the clamp. And fine because the blade stock is so thin. I'd be happy to sharpen it for you.

I'll have to experiment more. And I would love to have you do it but I'm in Canada so that always makes things complicated... Appreciate it though!


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[supratentorial]

I don't have high standards for sharpness, but this is like bad - it'll just push the paper out of the way when I attempt to cut it.

I'll have to look into stones!


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I meant that I wouldn't go too much by what other folks say since opinions vary. Some folks don't sharpen their new GEC knives. To me, the factory edge on a GEC knife is unusable unless you are just spreading butter with the knife. Some people take things to the opposite extreme. Their knives are so sharp that they will cut your eyeball if you just look at the edge. What works for you is what matters. I use and would recommend the DMT continuous diamond stones.

 

[lutejones]

For what you describe it is possible that the edge is a little over heated from factory sharpening, becoming a little softer due to heat.
What I'll do is cut into the stone to get rid of fatigued metal(I'm not usually a fan of this method as a common technique but I believe here could work well). Then take a medium diamond stone or similar (Norton India, soft Arkansas,etc. Around 400-600 grit hit the sweet spot for me) make contact with the bevel and work it in small circles until you have a burr, flip and do the same. Ten alternating passes with very light pressure afterwards and a little stropping should get you to a clean edge.
I find that with the small dimension of the handle it's difficult to me to hold the angle with the usual bench stone stroke and prefer to hold the stone in one hand and the knife on the other
Hope it helps

 

[jackknife]

For what you describe it is possible that the edge is a little over heated from factory sharpening, becoming a little softer due to heat.
What I'll do is cut into the stone to get rid of fatigued metal(I'm not usually a fan of this method as a common technique but I believe here could work well). Then take a medium diamond stone or similar (Norton India, soft Arkansas,etc. Around 400-600 grit hit the sweet spot for me) make contact with the bevel and work it in small circles until you have a burr, flip and do the same. Ten alternating passes with very light pressure afterwards and a little stropping should get you to a clean edge.
I find that with the small dimension of the handle it's difficult to me to hold the angle with the usual bench stone stroke and prefer to hold the stone in one hand and the knife on the other
Hope it helps

Ding ding! We have a winner! :thumbup::thumbup:

Lute is correct, use the small circle method on a little peanut size knife. The setups and gizmo's are not going to work as the knife is too small. Hold the knife in your right hand, if you are right handed, and the stone in your left. Start all the way back by the kick, and start honing in a small circle at about the angle you want. Work your way up to the point of the blade, all the while honing in a small overlapping circle pattern. Do not break contact with the stone because this will cage the angle. Take at least a full minute to get to the point of the blade. Repeat on the other side. Do this until shape. It may help to use a dry erase marker to darken the edges so you can see how your doing.

As far as angle, do not get obsessive over it, it won't make any difference that you can see in real world use. For about the right angle, hold the knife like you're going to saw the stone in half. This is 90 degrees. Lower this angle about half by eyeball. This will put you at about 45 degrees. Now lower that again by half and this is about where your pocket knife blade will be. Start honing there in the small overlapping circles. Don't obsess over a few degrees. It won't matter if it's 22 degrees or 25 degrees, the edge will be sharp if you learn to be consistent.

Free hand sharpening is not rocket science, and it's easy to do once you get the feel for it. The object of the small circle methods it holds a more consistent angle while sharpening because the blade is in constant contact with the sharpening medium no matter if its an Arkansas stone, diamond, or silica stone. No matter. This is actually better with small knives like peanuts and 58mm SAK's.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

The circular or elliptical grinding method, along the lines of what's been mentioned previously by lutejones and Carl (jackknife), is what I'd do with a Peanut (and have done with mine). I like to use a 'Fine' diamond hone for it; anything coarser than that isn't needed, and it'll also risk really chewing up the thin edge on that small blade. Also more challenging to control the angle consistently with a coarser grit, as the edge will really bite the hone, making angle control difficult. A Fine diamond (~600 or so; my favorite is DMT's Fine) works very fast on these simple steels, and leaves a finer finish at the same time, worthy of a great working edge in it's own right. The speed of diamond works in favor of reshaping the edge with fewer strokes, which also minimizes errors brought on by fatigue, as might happen with a less aggressive stone that works much more slowly. For additional smoothness and control, I've grown to like using a little bit of mineral oil on the hone as well (yes, oil works very well on diamond hones).

Once better edge geometry is set, maintenance sharpening gets a LOT easier on most any stone, as the wider bevels set by rebevelling work much better to stabilize the angle. I'd recommend 30° inclusive or narrower; Case suggests anything from 20-30° inclusive.

BTW, the circular method will obviously be a bit easier on a hone that affords some width to accomodate it. Lansky's narrow hones (1/2" wide) can make that a bit difficult; I've liked using DMT's 'credit card' hones, or their larger 6" x 2" Dia-Sharp hone. Both are the 'continuous surface' diamond coverage, which also lends a little more smoothness and control to the process.


David

 

[btb01]

Not a whole lot to add to what the knowledgable gents above have already said, but will second a few things that David said:

A Fine diamond (~600 or so; my favorite is DMT's Fine) works very fast on these simple steels, and leaves a finer finish at the same time, worthy of a great working edge in it's own right. The speed of diamond works in favor of reshaping the edge with fewer strokes, which also minimizes errors brought on by fatigue, as might happen with a less aggressive stone that works much more slowly.

DMT's Fine continuous surface (DiaSharp, I believe they're called) is an excellent stone for traditional knives with 1095, CV, "basic" stainless steels, etc. It's very easy to set a bevel with a consistent angle because you only have to keep your angle consistent for a few strokes (and it really doesn't take much with their Fine stone; for traditional knives, I don't know how anyone could need anything coarser than this stone.) I usually finish with DMT's Extra Fine, but as David said, the Fine will produce a great working edge all on its own. I would also definitely recommend using a Sharpie on the edge, like Carl said, so that after a few strokes you can check and see how you're doing and adjust accordingly.

Once better edge geometry is set, maintenance sharpening gets a LOT easier on most any stone, as the wider bevels set by rebevelling work much better to stabilize the angle.

Once I started using the continuous surface DMT stones, I found this to be exactly the case. Maintenance is a breeze, because you've set such a nice, flat, even bevel with the Fine DMT. This is where I would recommend the Extra Fine, it's perfect for touching up; removes metal more slowly than the Fine, but still only takes a few passes to get an edge back to razor sharp.

 

[jackknife]

The circular or elliptical grinding method, along the lines of what's been mentioned previously by lutejones and Carl (jackknife), is what I'd do with a Peanut (and have done with mine). I like to use a 'Fine' diamond hone for it; anything coarser than that isn't needed, and it'll also risk really chewing up the thin edge on that small blade. Also more challenging to control the angle consistently with a coarser grit, as the edge will really bite the hone, making angle control difficult. A Fine diamond (~600 or so; my favorite is DMT's Fine) works very fast on these simple steels, and leaves a finer finish at the same time, worthy of a great working edge in it's own right. The speed of diamond works in favor of reshaping the edge with fewer strokes, which also minimizes errors brought on by fatigue, as might happen with a less aggressive stone that works much more slowly. For additional smoothness and control, I've grown to like using a little bit of mineral oil on the hone as well (yes, oil works very well on diamond hones).

Once better edge geometry is set, maintenance sharpening gets a LOT easier on most any stone, as the wider bevels set by rebevelling work much better to stabilize the angle. I'd recommend 30° inclusive or narrower; Case suggests anything from 20-30° inclusive.

BTW, the circular method will obviously be a bit easier on a hone that affords some width to accomodate it. Lansky's narrow hones (1/2" wide) can make that a bit difficult; I've liked using DMT's 'credit card' hones, or their larger 6" x 2" Dia-Sharp hone. Both are the 'continuous surface' diamond coverage, which also lends a little more smoothness and control to the process.


David

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

To borrow a phrase from Ms. Monroe, diamonds are a knife's best friend. Fine diamonds are the best. Even though I can use a coffee mug, or soup bowl bottom, I carry a cut down Eze-Lap model L fine diamond hone in my wallet. It works soooo well with the simple steels that are in most traditional pocket knives. I like the Eze-Lap because it is so flat it fits in the zipper compartment of my wallet un-noticed. If my precious, Remington peanut gets to needing a bit of a touch up while out someplace, it's only a matter of a minute or two to get it done. It also works well on whatever SAK happens to be along that day. The sharpener is the red thing in the top left of the pic, laying on the wallet.

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As a new recruit to The Cult of The Peanut, I strongly advise you to read the manual on the care and feeding of Peanuts. They like being gently stroked on the stone to keep up their razor edge. If not well maintained, they can get very irritable and touchy, resulting in a hard to handle knife. They thrive on teamwork.

Carl, Grand High Muckba Of The Cult, (Retired)

 

[silenthunterstudios]

I cannot add anything other than good luck with your peanut. I am not the best sharpener out there, but I am doing much better with carbon and most tool steels. The Case 420HC should be easier to sharpen than many steels, I have to agree with Mateo.

 

[major_works]

Ding ding! We have a winner! :thumbup::thumbup:

Lute is correct, use the small circle method on a little peanut size knife. The setups and gizmo's are not going to work as the knife is too small. Hold the knife in your right hand, if you are right handed, and the stone in your left. Start all the way back by the kick, and start honing in a small circle at about the angle you want. Work your way up to the point of the blade, all the while honing in a small overlapping circle pattern. Do not break contact with the stone because this will cage the angle. Take at least a full minute to get to the point of the blade. Repeat on the other side. Do this until shape. It may help to use a dry erase marker to darken the edges so you can see how your doing.

As far as angle, do not get obsessive over it, it won't make any difference that you can see in real world use. For about the right angle, hold the knife like you're going to saw the stone in half. This is 90 degrees. Lower this angle about half by eyeball. This will put you at about 45 degrees. Now lower that again by half and this is about where your pocket knife blade will be. Start honing there in the small overlapping circles. Don't obsess over a few degrees. It won't matter if it's 22 degrees or 25 degrees, the egg will b sharp if you learn to be consistent.

Free hand sharpening is not rocket science, and it's easy to do once you get the feel for it. The object of the small circle methods it holds a more consistent angle while sharpening because the blade is in constant contact with the sharpening medium no matter if its an Arkansas stone, diamond, or silica stone. No matter. This is actually better with small knives like peanuts and 58mm SAK's.

I've been trying, with only some success, to learn to sharpen freehand. I'm using the little EZE-LAP diamond paddles. I'd be grateful if anyone (Carl? David?) could point me to a video (or, best case, make one yourselves!) that would clearly demonstrate this circular sharpening method using a Peanut or other small blade and something similar to what I'm using.

EDIT: Carl, I posted before seeing your last post... you've got the exact same hone(s) that I have.

 

[Chizzholm]

Wow guys, just waking up to see all these replies and I thank you all for the help!

I'm going to order two DMT stones and try out the circular method... I think I'll practice with a SS Opinel first to get the hang of it.

- Ryan


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[jrawk]

Wow guys, just waking up to see all these replies and I thank you all for the help!

I'm going to order two DMT stones and try out the circular method... I think I'll practice with a SS Opinel first to get the hang of it.

- Ryan


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Ryan a tip to help you learn free-hand... get yourself a 20X loupe magnifier. There are many inexpensive prime options on the prime website. This will allow you see if you're actually achieving your angles properly. I couldn't get my peanut sharp either until I received my 20x loupe in the mail and figured out my passes were way inconsistent. And thus recognized I needed to practice on a larger blade first.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I've been trying, with only some success, to learn to sharpen freehand. I'm using the little EZE-LAP diamond paddles. I'd be grateful if anyone (Carl? David?) could point me to a video (or, best case, make one yourselves!) that would clearly demonstrate this circular sharpening method using a Peanut or other small blade and something similar to what I'm using.

EDIT: Carl, I posted before seeing your last post... you've got the exact same hone(s) that I have.

Carl has made a pretty definitive reference in a collaboration with another BF member (Downhill Trucker), which includes the circular scrubbing technique. In the 1st vid below, about 10 minutes into it, he demo's the technique. Watch ALL of the video, and also the other included, as it's all a great tutorial. He demo's the technique with an Opinel and a carborundum (silicon carbide) stone, but it works just as well with Peanuts and any other knife and stone, for that matter.

The quoted post below is from post #43 in the thread linked here --> http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1029230-New-to-Sharpening-Need-help!

Sorry that it has taken me so long to get the videos uploaded. First off, I want to thank jackknife (Carl) for his help. He is a remarkable fellow and took the time to explain to me in clear, concise simplicity, the key to sharpening a knife. After merely filming the first video, I sat down and had a dull knife sharp in 5 minutes. Carl is a master of his craft and should be watched closely. Here is the much anticipated first video... Sorry, I am by no means a video guy and have no editing skills. The good news is that Carl makes it simple and easy. A great teacher...

Instinctive Knife Sharpening:
[video=youtube;SEMLu8e34ck]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEMLu8e34ck&feature=youtu.be[/video]

After the initial sharpening lesson, we found a rock and a piece of brick nearby. He dulled the knife and sharpened it with these two objects:
[video=youtube;Twduvki8m90]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twduvki8m90&feature=youtu.be[/video]

Thanks again to the forum members who gave me great info. I have some work to do at sharpening but this has been a great start. Enjoy the videos.

David