Cattaraugus Q225 ~

^^^And I would add ease of sharpening to that list.^^^

The modern super steels certainly have their benefits. But if I was going to choose one knife to be stuck with in a survival situation, I'd want it to be old-school carbon steel or simple stainless that I could put a good edge on with basic and/or found tools.
 
Another knife on the long, long list of things that "need" to be added to my collection. Why has this hobby gotten so much more expensive since I signed up on Blade Forums?
 
Get one before they get even more pricey. Not that they are expensive now but back when I bought my first CAT225 years ago, they could be had on the big auction site in decent condition for 35-55 bucks and look at the prices now (even considering the chancers who price the knife astronomically).
 
It's really too bad there aren't more of the old military and outdoor/hunting type knives available on the exchange. It's one of my favorite areas to collect and I like the exchange FAR better than the auction site.
 
BladeScout said:
As I always do, when the Cattaraugus 225Q pops up and when the myth of the Quartermaster is mentioned, I post the definitive text on the 225Q by Frank Trzaska.

It is long winded but might prove interesting for those into the Cattaraugus 225Q

"By Frank Trzaska 2004
The Cattaraugus 225Q and the Case 337Q knives have always intrigued me. Perhaps it is
some of the myths that always circulated about them that drew me in. I love the challenge
associated with a knife with a mainly oral history. Very little has been written about the
Q knives in the way of facts. We can find photos of them in just about every theatre of
World War Two being worn by front line fighters yet the myth is that the were issued to
Quartermaster personal for opening crates. Just on the surface it sounds ridiculous that a
knife would be procured for such a use when crowbars had been in inventory for just
such a task. In fact there were even specialized crate opening tools specified for that job
in Quartermaster catalogs. The myth grown up around these knives even has the pommel
as being designed to hammer the nails back into the crates apparently after the wrong box
is opened. It sounds fishy when put into this type of context yet the myth continues to
grow and to spread. Like most good urban legends some fact is always present to make
the myth palatable to the majority of people. In this article we hope to end some of those
urban legends and present the facts associated with the misunderstood and under
appreciated Q knives.
At the start of World War .........................................
Another contact made during the ongoing investigation was Chuck Karwan. Chuck is a
well-known gun and knife writer who had written an article on the Q knives for Knives
98 Annual. I would suggest reading it if you haven’t already. It seems Chuck has a great
appreciation for the Q knives, he lists them among his favorites. What many folks do not
know is Mr. Karwan is a Vietnam combat veteran and continued to serve for many more
years. Chuck has carried many knives in his time in the field and to rank the Q knife up
there as a favorite is a major statement. Mr. Karwan assisted me in the search and
confirmed information from his many service friends on contracting entities.
So that about sums it up for the history on the Q knives for now. We can dispel the myth
that they were private purchase knives, we have contracts to prove otherwise. We can say
with certainty they were for general issue, not just for Quartermaster personal by the
sheer amount of the knives made. We can state as fact these knives were made to a
specific pattern designed by the Quartermaster Corps just like an M3 was made to a
specific pattern designed by the Ordnance Corps from the bill of materials listing. And
last but not least we can point to Mr. JBF Champlin who stated for a 1945 article that the
knives could open boxes and drive nails, perhaps as the beginning of that often told tale.
I never could find a written specification as to "why" the left-handed sheath. The proper
placement of the bayonet on the belt in the uniform of the time was on the left rear
quadrant. The knife was designed to fit this same space hence the orientation of the
sheath.
All the best
Frank Trzaska"
Click to expand...

I would like to mention that the Late Chuck Karwan (Jan. 1947 - Sept. 2008) mentioned above in Frank Trzaska's excellent text had an outstanding article on Cattaraugus 225Q in the "1998 Knives Annual" series.
He was ending his article as follows:
"…..For my money, the Cattaraugus 225Q was the premier combat utility knife of WWII. It wasn’t perfect. It would have been ever better if it had a slightly longer handle with a little drop in it. Also it needed a provision for a lanyard. However, it superior performance and strength more than made up for these deficiencies.
My war was Vietnam. My combat knife in Vietnam was a handmade knife by a famous maker, and, sadly, it was a major disappointment. I would have been happier if I had taken my Cattaraugus 225Q to Vietnam because it has better edge geometry, is stronger, is more rust resistant, and has a more practical blade configuration than the knife I did take. The Cattaraugus 225Q deserves a lot more credit and a better place in history than it has ever received".
What a tribute!!!!
 
hunter55 said:
I would like to mention that the Late Chuck Karwan (Jan. 1947 - Sept. 2008) mentioned above in Frank Trzaska's excellent text had an outstanding article on Cattaraugus 225Q in the "1998 Knives Annual" series.
He was ending his article as follows:
"…..For my money, the Cattaraugus 225Q was the premier combat utility knife of WWII. It wasn’t perfect. It would have been ever better if it had a slightly longer handle with a little drop in it. Also it needed a provision for a lanyard. However, it superior performance and strength more than made up for these deficiencies.
My war was Vietnam. My combat knife in Vietnam was a handmade knife by a famous maker, and, sadly, it was a major disappointment. I would have been happier if I had taken my Cattaraugus 225Q to Vietnam because it has better edge geometry, is stronger, is more rust resistant, and has a more practical blade configuration than the knife I did take. The Cattaraugus 225Q deserves a lot more credit and a better place in history than it has ever received".
What a tribute!!!!
Click to expand...
:thumbup:
And how true!
 
I first meet Chuck Karwan when we were both in the 10th SFGA in 1972 and we became good friends, and stayed that way until he died. He gave me my first 225Q, and now have two more as well as a Case 337Q, which I like better as it has a longer handle, which fits my big hand better. One of the 225Q's I have had a name a serial number on the sheath and Frank Trzaska kindly tracked the name down, and it was carried by 1LT John C. Smith, Jr, who carried it while flying unarmed transport planes in the China Burma India, campaign, earning two Distinguished Flying Crosses. Unfortunately at some time it was professionally cleaned up, mainly smoothing out the handle, but the blade is full and ready to go again. I know another man, who was a Marine heading for the Inchon landing during the Korean Conflict, who was issued a 225Q on board ship. I keep asking him when he is going to sell it to me, he just keeps smiling back and moving on. I also meet a SSG in the 1st SFGA in about 2003, who was carrying a 225Q that his Uncle had carried in WWII in Italy, so that 225Q was still soldiering on. He also declined to sell me his 225Q. John
 
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I have worked with quite a few Cattaraugus 225Q's over my years 👍 Re-working, customizing, refurbishing. You name it I've probably done it. I love the design. Very functional knife. I have a lot more pics somewhere. Lots of great info here!
 
John A. Larsen said:
Rez_Daug, Nice job on that 22Q, I like the longer handle. John
Click to expand...






This one belongs to my dad. All the original leather washers were damaged, a few were missing. I cut new leather washers, added a screw tang & used an Arizona mule deer crown stag for a pommel. He wanted the handle longer as he has large hands. Came out nice. Here is a pic before it was polished. The stag pommel was treated using a propane torch. The entire handle polished up nicely. It gave the leather stacked handle an almost vintage look. The blade was blasted clean then gun blued.


Thanks John 👍
 
Rez_Daug, Excellent work! the old workhorse looks like a new one, ready - of course - for action again!!! congratulations!
 
Rez_Dawg said:
added a screw tang & used an Arizona mule deer crown stag for a pommel. He wanted the handle longer as he has large hands. Came out nice. Here is a pic before it was polished. The stag pommel was treated using a propane torch. The entire handle polished up nicely. It gave the leather stacked handle an almost vintage look. The blade was blasted clean then gun blued.


Thanks John 👍
Click to expand...

How did you add the screw tang?
(My sister has one she found on her paper route some decades ago. The tang is cut off square and has pinned to it a threaded rod terminating in a holed saddle sort of shape.)

[I'm not going to show the handle I fixed with fender washers and underwater epoxy.]
 
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scrteened porch said:
How did you add the screw tang?
(My sister has one she found on her paper route some decades ago. The tang is cut off square and has pinned to it a threaded rod terminating in a holed saddle sort of shape.)

[I'm not going to show the handle I fixed with fender washers and underwater epoxy.]
Click to expand...



I cut a notch in the end of the tang and fuse welded a screw tang. I then cut off the remainder after adding my handle material. I'm a knifemaker, so these repair/refurbish jobs are nothing for me to do. I fused without jeopardizing the heat treatment/hardness of the blade. It has been processing meat, used on several hunting/fishing trips since it's been finished. It's as good as new, gets nothing but compliments. I've done 4-5 since, made custom sheaths for them as well. 👍👍
 
I want to thank everyone that has contributed to this thread. I learned a bunch and the grip damage was one question that I had for a few decades. The thread inspired me to go online and get a Q225 that needed some work. I ended up with one that looked completely unused but had been kept in someones garage since the 50's. Plenty of rust, mild pitting but good leather and the grip and steel plates remain as solid as they were new. My kind of knife to be honest. I enjoy bringing knives back to life. I never saw a Q225 that was new at the edge and did not know they were convexed. Despite the rust and neglect it remained sharp enough to cut better than many knives I have seen new in box. It will get sharper when I am done. Of all the government issue knives this is my favorite design. I am going to look for a Case in the future. I might just like that version better. Who knows. Thanks again everyone.

Joe
 
The "marred" leather in the stacked leather handle of the Cattaraugus 225Q and Case 337-6Q were by design for a surer grip.

Cattaraugus%2520225Q%2520Tang%2520Stamp%2520Side.jpg


I want to acquire a Case 337-6Q, but am having a hard time finding one in what I consider an acceptable condition for an acceptable price. Found one at a gun show last weekend, but it had the wrong sheath (right side). The seller insisted the government bought both. He was wrong, and I told him so. By his reaction I knew he was BSing me vs simply being mistaken and I knew he knew that I knew he knew he was BSing me. Even if he were selling it for price I couldn't pass up I'd probably have passed on it as I really dislike dealing with dishonest men.
 
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