CFK Knife update and company history

[druid189]

They didn't seem to have any problem telling old Last_Ditch that information. Why insult so many inquiring minds by shutting everyone out now? Pretty weird...
Wait, you don't think Last_Ditch was actually.......Nah, that's crazy talk.

So I don't quite get what are you implying? That this "last ditch" is actually a/the guy from CFK posing as "last ditch?" - or are you saying that "last ditch" is "that trustworthy of a guy" that he posted a hearsay conversation [his post that you quoted] and then just vanished off the face of the Earth? That's an interesting take from either end of that spectrum. Any or all of that should be easily confirmed or refuted by any mod who has access to IP information though. I haven's read any confirmation or denial by any moderator though [or did I miss one?]......

 

[Omega Leather Works]

I have no scathing hate for the company, in fact I would love to handle one or more of their blades. Their practices just don't make me excited is all.

As for price versus excellence, I've gotta disagree. It's a matter of practice, at least here, at least from what I've seen over the years of reading and commenting in the Shop Talk sub forum, that every craftsman tries to improve upon their product, and very often at a very, bordering on silly, prices. Often well under $100.

This doesn't only pertain to customs. Spyderco is one of the most transparent companies I've ever come across. I used to chat with the lead designer at Benchmade all the time. Not only did he tell me what the HRC *should* be on my knife, he asked me to send it to him for testing so that we'd both be able to satisfy our curiosity.

There will always be those that choose not to share their practices. Frankly I don't understand that. If you recall my snake skin cuff thread I had one prolific member encourage me to keep the information to myself in order to sell the product better. I really appreciated the notion because it seemed to mean that he thought I had something worth protecting, but that will never be my stance.

Being an active member here for so long has really taught me the value in sharing information and trying to be better at my craft with the help of those I respect. I hold no ill will for those that feel differently, it's just not my way. I think many people are better at what they do directly as a result of sharing their information and processes. I prefer companies, makers and other craftsmen that operate under the same principle.

I don't mind CFK doing business in whatever way they see fit (so long as they are truthful), it's the shroud of mystery (okay, maybe that's exaggerated ) that is off putting. Their percentage of happy customers on ebay is a great indicator that they are doing something right with their demographic. Without trying to sound snooty, I just don't fit that demo.

 

[MrMotivations]

No, Sam, I'm not one of the "Jasons", but a fella named Jason called me yesterday after my knives arrived. I do have an opinion of his business having talked to him, but I've too much experience to express it here. By the way, I 've looked at your sites, and as impressive as your knives appear to be, they are for people dedicated to that level of craftsmanship appreciation, as they are gorgeous! I prefer to take a $35 Spyderco from my modest collection, and gift it to a school break youngster at our local hardware store for him to have/use OTJ, and watch his eyes light up upon receiving it.
The "acid" test amuses me. Are we talking table vinegar or the stuff you buy for cleaning purposes? How closely does one structure the experiment, and is that the sole test for assaying metallurgical properties of a steel? (I prefer the spicy mustard for its enhanced turmeric content.) Turmeric is a potent metabolic regulator, and a brain function enhancement, so eat more mustard. "I'm too old to cut the mustard, but I can still spread it around.." ;-)

 

[Omega Leather Works]

I'm not sure why the test is amusing. Obviously it's not a conclusive test, but it does offer valuable information.

Here are my thoughts on what the results might mean.

1. It's a great indicator of steel type.

No, it won't come close to telling you an exact alloy. What it does do is separate stainless from carbon steel.

2. Gives you a clue about the steel being d2 or an alloy with no chromium.

With the knives in hand I could tell if the steel is resistant to corrosion like d2, stainless, or high carbon/zero chromium. It would be very easy to apply the same test to other knives you have available.

For instance, I would apply whatever medium that I choose, could be mustard, could be a paper towel soaked in regular 5% vinegar, could be any number of products to blades in a 10xx steel, and known d2. Regardless of the medium used you should see the corrosion rate and be able to compare the results.

If you get far better resistance than your 10xx blade it would make sense that the unknown knife has chromium (like d2 does). If the corrosion is about the same between the known d2 and the unknown blade it would be indicative of the unknown blades composition. Obviously nothing conclusive, but much better than nothing at all. There's way too much that I cannot see in the pics to really venture a guess, but if you had a gun to my head it would appear to me to have chromium, but not enough to make it stainless. Similar to what you get with d2...

 

[buckfynn]

I'm not sure why the test is amusing. Obviously it's not a conclusive test, but it does offer valuable information.

Here are my thoughts on what the results might mean.

1. It's a great indicator of steel type.

No, it won't come close to telling you an exact alloy. What it does do is separate stainless from carbon steel.

2. Gives you a clue about the steel being d2 or an alloy with no chromium.

With the knives in hand I could tell if the steel is resistant to corrosion like d2, stainless, or high carbon/zero chromium. It would be very easy to apply the same test to other knives you have available.

For instance, I would apply whatever medium that I choose, could be mustard, could be a paper towel soaked in regular 5% vinegar, could be any number of products to blades in a 10xx steel, and known d2. Regardless of the medium used you should see the corrosion rate and be able to compare the results.

If you get far better resistance than your 10xx blade it would make sense that the unknown knife has chromium (like d2 does). If the corrosion is about the same between the known d2 and the unknown blade it would be indicative of the unknown blades composition. Obviously nothing conclusive, but much better than nothing at all. There's way too much that I cannot see in the pics to really venture a guess, but if you had a gun to my head it would appear to me to have chromium, but not enough to make it stainless. Similar to what you get with d2...

I agree with what you said which I highlighted in red. Before your test we had no clue to what the steel is. Now after the test we still don't know what the composition of the steel might be.

The only definitive way to identify the chemical composition of the steel would be to run known "quantitative" testing methods on the material to determine the elemental breakdown. Anything other than such a test is nothing more than speculation, including your "qualitative" mustard etch test. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

I agree with what you said which I highlighted in red. Before your test we had no clue to what the steel is. Now after the test we still don't know what the composition of the steel might be.

The only definitive way to identify the chemical composition of the steel would be to run known "quantitative" testing methods on the material to determine the elemental breakdown. Anything other than such a test is nothing more than speculation, including your "qualitative" mustard etch test. Just my 2 cents.

No conclusive evidence, I agree. If I didn't make that clear, forgive me.

Your options are an analyzer, or paying around $150 to have a test run by a lab.

Listen, my goal isn't/wasn't to try and make the test sound like rock solid proof of anything. All it does is offer food for thought.

In my opinion there isn't much to gain from how the thread has progressed. I'll still watch it and hopefully the company will step up with proof, should they be so inclined. We've all seen companies that get caught up in lies, we've also seen companies (Kizer for instance) that offer up enough proof to make the majority of consumers feel comfortable with purchasing their product. CFK has an opportunity to do the same and I hope they do. Again, I'd like to try their product.

I'll bow out of this thread now. At least until CFK shows up with something to say. I truly hope they do because they really have nothing to lose and could make a great many people more likely to buy their products. That's a win-win for everyone.

 

[crufflers]

or paying around $150 to have a test run by a lab.

Listen, my goal isn't/wasn't to try and make the test sound like rock solid proof of anything. All it does is offer food for thought.

In my opinion there isn't much to gain from how the thread has progressed. I'll still watch it and hopefully the company will step up with proof, should they be so inclined. We've all seen companies that get caught up in lies, we've also seen companies (Kizer for instance) that offer up enough proof to make the majority of consumers feel comfortable with purchasing their product. CFK has an opportunity to do the same and I hope they do. Again, I'd like to try their product.

I'll bow out of this thread now. At least until CFK shows up with something to say. I truly hope they do because they really have nothing to lose and could make a great many people more likely to buy their products. That's a win-win for everyone.

That's interesting. Since you know the analysis cost, what test is it exactly?

CFK knives could be a real attractive option for a bargain hard knife use or even collector knife. I paid $26 for a COLD STEEL GI TANTO from CHINA that is pretty rough, but it does what I expected, why not $50 for something quite a bit nicer but still not a USA produced knife? There are not tons of larger polished blades with decent grinds and decent steel and decent handles out there that come with high quality leather sheaths for the $50-$60 price.

However, if there is a black cloud hanging over the origin of the knives... that may be really important to some people. There are plenty of affordable AND proven quality fixed blade options out there like Kabar BK series, Ontario Ranger line, etc... USA made and tough as nails. My favorites are the BK2, Ontario Falcon, Ontario RD Tanto, Ontario TFI, etc... CFK does have a vested interest in not admitting to any complete dishonesty and being forever labeled as hucksters. If the knives are Pakistani, don't expect the truth to come out any time soon or any see any admissions here.

 

[crufflers]

I really hope we figure out the origins of these knives, but I'll never say they are ugly. Problem is if the source is a lie... what steel is this "D2"? Entertaining anyway. If I snap one up, I have my Ontario's, and Kabar BK's. I'm in California, so 90% of my collection are production folding knives. I'd be interested in hearing from someone who has a folder. I wonder what bushings, pivot, etc... these guys use.

 

[druid189]

I really hope we figure out the origins of these knives, but I'll never say they are ugly. Problem is if the source is a lie... what steel is this "D2"? Entertaining anyway. If I snap one up, I have my Ontario's, and Kabar BK's. I'm in California, so 90% of my collection are production folding knives. I'd be interested in hearing from someone who has a folder. I wonder what bushings, pivot, etc... these guys use.

I hope we do too.

...and I looked at some of their folders and have to say "not really a fan." None really jump out at me....they have some Buck 110-types [not a fan of the 110 style], some "scimitar" shaped blades [yuk] and others that are double edged [not allowed by state law].....can't say I'm a fan with the exception to perhaps one:

........but even that one looks way to heavy for me to carry around every day [yeah I know, this coming from a guy who carried his Buck Crosslock Deputy on duty for over 15 years ]. Besides, I'm a fixed blade guy more than anything else.

 

[crufflers]

I hope we do too.

...and I looked at some of their folders and have to say "not really a fan." None really jump out at me....they have some Buck 110-types [not a fan of the 110 style], some "scimitar" shaped blades [yuk] and others that are double edged [not allowed by state law].....can't say I'm a fan with the exception to perhaps one:

........but even that one looks way to heavy for me to carry around every day [yeah I know, this coming from a guy who carried his Buck Crosslock Deputy on duty for over 15 years ]. Besides, I'm a fixed blade guy more than anything else.

I am not a fan of Damascus, but who knows... my tastes already changed and I am buying more traditionals. USA traditionals. I just scored a couple of older GEC's last night on the auction and I'm waiting for another 2015 Beer Scout

File work doesn't thrill me either. The above looks fancy, flashy, and foreign to me, but I don't know much. I just know what I like right now. I have zero interest in their folders either. For someone looking at one good fixed blade to actually use, I'd put the $60 towards a BK or Ontario. I'd like a few more Ranger series knives myself. All my CFK's are .25" stock and heavy except that stacked leather bowie which is 10.7 OZ - not bad. A looker, but where's she from?

 

[druid189]

I am not a fan of Damascus, but who knows... my tastes already changed and I am buying more traditionals. USA traditionals. I just scored a couple of older GEC's last night on the auction and I'm waiting for another 2015 Beer Scout

File work doesn't thrill me either. The above looks fancy, flashy, and foreign to me, but I don't know much. I just know what I like right now. I have zero interest in their folders either. For someone looking at one good fixed blade to actually use, I'd put the $60 towards a BK or Ontario. I'd like a few more Ranger series knives myself. All my CFK's are .25" stock and heavy except that stacked leather bowie which is 10.7 OZ - not bad. A looker, but where's she from?

I like Damascus but real Damascus, not the acid etched [fakery] stuff [not saying CFK's are fakes, I'm just saying in general]. You can probably guess the 'reality' of a Damascus knife based upon the sales price. I've seen a bar of Carbon Damascus Hirohito Pattern 5/32" x 1-1/4" x 12" go for $155.00 on its own...

I'm liking their Bowie styled blades though....and their ~ 5" standard Bushy knives. State Law precludes me from owning double edged so those are all out....

but even if we don't get a better answer than what they've provided so far....are you unhappy with any of your CFK blades? I'm not done testing this one and am holding off [public] judgement until then...but I'm curious how you feel about them....

 

[crufflers]

That would be easier to answer if you could trust the stories, because as illustrated by the questions people have in this thread, you can't trust the story behind the steel... the whole reason for the silly mustard test, right?

To say I like all the CFK's I'd have to assume a lot. I'll say they are great bargain blades if they hold up to regular use. The CFK line is pretty nice from the couple I have. The knives look great, and the fit and finish is beyond anything I'd hope for in a cheap Paki blade if that is what they are. That stacked leather handled bowie looks damned perfect. I have no idea if it'll hold up. My iPak bowie had some pretty cheap hardware on it when I removed and re-installed that handle scale. Small screw hole threads on the blade stripped out pretty easily on both sides.

Some of the iPak stuff is rough and the grinds are a little all over the place, some are uneven, sharpness varies quite a bit, etc... Logo stamping is not deep enough, etc... as far as the logo stamping goes, they disclose that in the descriptions, but a shallow or uneven logo stamp just looks bad and it doesn't necessarily qualify the piece as a "second" either. I don't have any "seconds" but i have a few iPaks with uneven and shallow or half-stamps. One has a noticeable uneven grind down the cutting edge and one had a pretty bad transition. That's one reason I'd steer clear of the Tracker type grinds. My outlook was I just wanted to beat on these knives for the price, and see what the fuss was about, so who cares about a logo stamp.

I'll say that if the origin stories and steel type proved true I'd recommend the CFK branded bowies and be completely happy with them. If they are Paki, they could have been the the best Paki knives out there and broke some new ground if not for the fairy tales.

All IMHO of course.

 

[Confederate]

NEWSFLASH: Some of the more recent CFK offerings are being proffered as either "stainless" or "420HC" with a reduced hardness rating. Yet they appear as the earlier D2 knives. Either these new knives are sporting stainless blades or CFK management is seeing the light (or feeling the heat). I have a few of the "D2" knives with 8-10 inch blades and I can honestly say I would have bought them even if they been advertised as being made with 420. Regarding the "D2" models, can anyone do a Rockwell hardness test? If they are shown to be rated as a 61, I'd be impressed. But if 58, well, less so. The so-called Damascus blades they use, when polished, look just like stainless steel but they would still pass as carbon.

Anyway, I put some mustard on my signed certificate of authenticity and it did leave a stain. But then, so did the ketchup that also dripped from my McDonald's hamburger. Is that significant?

-

 

[MrMotivations]

I too am mildly interested in a folder, one with the Spyderco hole rather than the stud, which were it a knife with a pocket clip, tend to grab on to the edge of my pockets, and I avoid them. When I talked with Jason, I mentioned the folders. I did buy one Damascus steel from some other outfit, and found it "well constructed" but heavy and stiff in the pivot joint, even after drenching it with solvents/oils. I gave it away. I asked Jason if the pivots had washers on either side prior to the liners, and he indicated that they were well enough machined that they chose not to put them in. He said they opened easily. I've not ordered one, and am not sure if I will. I tend to be choosier about folders than fixed since most of my carries are folders, about 90% of my collection, too. Like Druid, I am partial to the style of the folder in his post, however.

 

[buckfynn]

I too am mildly interested in a folder, one with the Spyderco hole rather than the stud, which were it a knife with a pocket clip, tend to grab on to the edge of my pockets, and I avoid them. When I talked with Jason, I mentioned the folders. I did buy one Damascus steel from some other outfit, and found it "well constructed" but heavy and stiff in the pivot joint, even after drenching it with solvents/oils. I gave it away. I asked Jason if the pivots had washers on either side prior to the liners, and he indicated that they were well enough machined that they chose not to put them in. He said they opened easily. I've not ordered one, and am not sure if I will. I tend to be choosier about folders than fixed since most of my carries are folders, about 90% of my collection, too. Like Druid, I am partial to the style of the folder in his post, however.

So would that be Jason Baker or Jason Black that you are on such an intimate first name relationship?

 

[MrMotivations]

He just said his name was "Jason". CFK knives. 3rd cousin twice removed, on my mothers side I think. I didn't care to check his creds at the door. You would be incorrect to think I am more than mildly interested. I acquired a few knives because I like a long knife on me when I do landscape photography here in Tennessee. He reminded me of some sales people I have met, very enthusiastic about what he was selling. Any one run a play around with his sales figures? If one takes his feedback and multiplies it by a reasonably conservative number like a $55.00 "average", it's not a bad sum for a single product commodity on Ebay. He claimed to make money on knives selling in excess of $50. With that general information, one can make a rough cost analysis, but the net profit figure could vary widely since the exact selling figure per knife is unknown. Still, I don't think it's not a bad little business. We ran a small business, dance wear rack job outfitter, which had a net profit in excess of 30%, making us silly greedy, until Wal-mart came to town. We lasted about 4 months after that, ha! So, you're only as good as until the next big gun rides into town.

 

[crufflers]

He claimed to make money on knives selling in excess of $50. With that general information, one can make a rough cost analysis, but the net profit figure could vary widely since the exact selling figure per knife is unknown.

Many of the larger bone handled knives and the stacked leather handle bowies have a dozen or more bids of them by the time they sell. Selling price goes up into the $80+ range quite a bit from when I was watching them. Took a while to snipe one people were sleeping on for $50. They also have buy it now knives going on all the time and I am sure those sell too. IIRC buy it nows are set anywhere from $99 to $129 and higher if they have a kydex companion sheath.

 

[druid189]

I too am mildly interested in a folder, one with the Spyderco hole rather than the stud, which were it a knife with a pocket clip, tend to grab on to the edge of my pockets, and I avoid them. When I talked with Jason, I mentioned the folders. I did buy one Damascus steel from some other outfit, and found it "well constructed" but heavy and stiff in the pivot joint, even after drenching it with solvents/oils. I gave it away. I asked Jason if the pivots had washers on either side prior to the liners, and he indicated that they were well enough machined that they chose not to put them in. He said they opened easily. I've not ordered one, and am not sure if I will. I tend to be choosier about folders than fixed since most of my carries are folders, about 90% of my collection, too. Like Druid, I am partial to the style of the folder in his post, however.

Aesthetically speaking, I'm particularly fond of the drop point blade design. I'm more the hunter [to include long-hunting] than I am "the survivalist" and even though I use a skinner styled [fixed] blade, I'd definitely rock a 4-5" drop point to replace that one.

 

[MrMotivations]

I've noticed the prices and bids have been creeping upwards, seemingly in the last couple of weeks. Could it be seasonality, chatter on this site and others, etc. I remember whichever Jason who called said he follows this forum. It would be in his intere$t to see this conversation continue in this forum, I suspect. If they continue upward, my interest for this attractive commodity will shift to some other source. That's why there is competition. (I worked for an industrialist whose favorite saying was, "All I want from life is an unfair advantage..")

 

[crufflers]

I've noticed the prices and bids have been creeping upwards, seemingly in the last couple of weeks. Could it be seasonality, chatter on this site and others, etc. I remember whichever Jason who called said he follows this forum. It would be in his intere$t to see this conversation continue in this forum, I suspect. If they continue upward, my interest for this attractive commodity will shift to some other source. That's why there is competition. (I worked for an industrialist whose favorite saying was, "All I want from life is an unfair advantage..")

You don't have to wonder about them watching this forum, they have posted in this very thread. There isn't much info on CFK out there to sift through to find a few forum threads. Yes, it seems like there are still a ton no reserve .99 auctions being listed but also more of them starting at $100 or more too, some with buy it now set at $180 - these for obvious reasons don't get much action. They can test the waters all they want and just re-list if there are zero bids. I think if they keep reading about how people cannot believe how cheap these knives are, one tactic would definitely be to jack up the price and profits. They cost $200 so they must be real I think that will lead to more people with buyer's remorse after finding negative reviews on trusted forums. As far as steel types I think they have always had different runs of various steels. Did anyone notice they changed the iPAK logo on the blades and sheaths? They also have folders like the model posted here with thumbholes rather than thumbstuds already for sale.