CFK Knife update and company history

[druid189]

I did it on my be CFK D2 knife. I rubbed the mustard on, let it dry on (about 45 min) then washed it off with cold water. I got a slight discoloration. It almost has a "nickel" effect. But it is very feint. I tried taking a pic with my phone but it doesn't come out really good in the pic. Should I leave it on longer to get a better effect?

Same. I used two different types of mustard...French's yellow and Spicy brown. The plain yellow didn't leave that much of a mark but the spicy brown did:

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Well, I'm no expert, but I've forced many a patina. Druid, it's hard to tell from your pictures because there is some mustard left behind, but it does appear to have left a mark. I would say that it does mimic the results I've had in forcing a patina on d2.

Personally speaking I have a very hard time believing that the knives are made as described while still turning a profit. It really doesn't seem possible since the steel alone is not inexpensive. That's not something I'm prepared to argue about, but it seems seriously suspect.

I'm very much looking forward to hearing from the company about how all of this works because they seem to be doing the impossible.

That aside the slight discoloration wouldn't happen with a stainless blade, and I'd expect more discoloration from steel that has no chromium. Thanks for doing it guys, I find the results (as limited as they are) intriguing...

If you have the scales off already I'd soak a paper towel in vinegar and lay it over the tang wrinkled up. If I got a pattern I'd feel confident in being certain that it wasn't stainless. If that were the case I'd say it's promising. Again, the cheapest knives always seem to be a crappy stainless alloy.

 

[Alamor]

Well, I'm no expert, but I've forced many a patina. Druid, it's hard to tell from your pictures because there is some mustard left behind, but it does appear to have left a mark. I would say that it does mimic the results I've had in forcing a patina on d2.

Personally speaking I have a very hard time believing that the knives are made as described while still turning a profit. It really doesn't seem possible since the steel alone is not inexpensive. That's not something I'm prepared to argue about, but it seems seriously suspect.

I'm very much looking forward to hearing from the company about how all of this works because they seem to be doing the impossible.

That aside the slight discoloration wouldn't happen with a stainless blade, and I'd expect more discoloration from steel that has no chromium. Thanks for doing it guys, I find the results (as limited as they are) intriguing...

If you have the scales off already I'd soak a paper towel in vinegar and lay it over the tang wrinkled up. If I got a pattern I'd feel confident in being certain that it wasn't stainless. If that were the case I'd say it's promising. Again, the cheapest knives always seem to be a crappy stainless alloy.

I have a question. I am no steel expert, what would be the net cost for the amount of steel to make one knife? I would think it would be similar to anything else. The more you buy the cheaper it would be? I am curious on how much the materials would cost at a wholesale price to make the knife Druid is testing. Not including labor, just the materials?

 

[druid189]

I'll not alter your post but I will respond in red to the previous sentence

Well, I'm no expert, but I've forced many a patina. Druid, it's hard to tell from your pictures because there is some mustard left behind, but it does appear to have left a mark. I would say that it does mimic the results I've had in forcing a patina on d2.
Yes I know. I left some residual mustard around the outside but wiped it clean on the "bulk" of the spot. There is definitely marks by both....the yellow mustard is not nearly as dark as the Spicy brown though.
Personally speaking I have a very hard time believing that the knives are made as described while still turning a profit. It really doesn't seem possible since the steel alone is not inexpensive. That's not something I'm prepared to argue about, but it seems seriously suspect.
I can agree and even accept that. One thing I've noticed though is that these knives bid anywhere from $9 to over $100 per blade. I've tried to reason it out myself, but if the company is doing volume as their ebay numbers suggest......I don't know.....they have to be turning some kind of profit. Hell, not everyone in business is greedy either...so perhaps they are simply happy with a modest profit? I can't speak for them but I will admit to having a vivid imagination LOL.
I'm very much looking forward to hearing from the company about how all of this works because they seem to be doing the impossible.
As am I.
That aside the slight discoloration wouldn't happen with a stainless blade, and I'd expect more discoloration from steel that has no chromium. Thanks for doing it guys, I find the results (as limited as they are) intriguing...
No problem. If I had a better/more empirical way to test this blade, I would absolutely do it.
If you have the scales off already I'd soak a paper towel in vinegar and lay it over the tang wrinkled up. If I got a pattern I'd feel confident in being certain that it wasn't stainless. If that were the case I'd say it's promising. Again, the cheapest knives always seem to be a crappy stainless alloy.

I had not planned on removing the scales...I guess I could but I have no way of affixing new scales in their place [no pins to replace the ones that will be destroyed].

I have no objection to the vinegar test on the blade itself if that would satisfy any curiosity? Tell me how it should be done.

 

[druid189]

I have a question. I am no steel expert, what would be the net cost for the amount of steel to make one knife? I would think it would be similar to anything else. The more you buy the cheaper it would be? I am curious on how much the materials would cost at a wholesale price to make the knife Druid is testing. Not including labor, just the materials?

If using NJ Steel Baron as the example: http://newjerseysteelbaron.com/shop/d-2/

a section of D2 steel, 2" wide, 1/4" thick by 36" long is $118.18. By my measurements of this blade, they can get at least 3 of these knives from one piece of stock, plus perhaps 1 or 2 "smaller" knives from that same bar. If we assume they only get 3 knives from that bar, they would cost $39.393333333333333 per blade - even less if they get more blades per bar.

Now they say they source their steel in Europe [not S Asia/Pakistan as has been conjectured] so I have no idea what that cost might be......and yes, you would think buying bulk would be cheaper.

If using YouTube's "Guy Noble" as the example, custom Micarta plates can be had for anywhere up to $50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km83blgjvAM&list=PLDQGTzpfNRCtLq9Tcf9IygBX-vgzO-F1O&index=14

...but given they probably aren't using any custom maker's micarta, I'd wager it's a lot cheaper in "mass produced bulk" than by anyone else....

 

[Omega Leather Works]

I wouldn't take the scales off. If they are attached properly they most likely use an epoxy like West Systems, Acraglass or G Flex. These aren't hardware store epoxies. The only reason to remove the scales would be to access an area to test that wouldn't be seen after the test. You'd likely have residue to deal with on the tang, and in any case the patina should be easy to remove (Flitz or similar) on an exposed part.

Don't worry about further patina testing. You guys have done a good job and I'm convinced that the knives are not stainless. I do believe this is a good start. It's not imperical as you say, but it's good enough for me.

In my opinion, further proof is on the company itself. Maybe they have no interest in showing us their processes, maybe they do. They appear to sell enough volume to dismiss our concerns.

 

[Sam Wilson]

I have a question. I am no steel expert, what would be the net cost for the amount of steel to make one knife? I would think it would be similar to anything else. The more you buy the cheaper it would be? I am curious on how much the materials would cost at a wholesale price to make the knife Druid is testing. Not including labor, just the materials?

Breaking it down by materials cost per knife would be very difficult, without knowing what their materials costs are, and what deals they can get through various vendors. Another way to look at it would be a “similar” product, and what it costs, and then the various differences.

If we look at the CFK “tracker,” the Buy it Now price I saw most commonly for the “D2” version on ebay was about $100. If we look at the TOPS Tracker, the large Tracker 1, it seems to run right around $200 on ebay, give or take a few bucks.

The similarities: both advertise plenty of hand grinding and/or finishing, obviously they have a similar design.

The differences: This is where it gets interesting. The TOPS knife is all made in the U.S.A., and has 1095 carbon steel with a black “traction” coating. The CFK version allegedly starts life “somewhere in Europe,” as far as the steel, then it is “forged” in England. Presumably the knives are ground and heat treated there, also. Don’t really know when the handles are put on, but either way, skilled craftsmen have to do it, either in “England” or the U.S.A. I believe the CFK version uses micarta for the handle, as well.

The CFK version then has to make it all the way over here to the U.S., shipping, associated fees, etc. According to CFK, more “skilled craftsmen” then do more work on them here, whether it’s attaching the handles, or final finishing.

Now, the CFK knife does all this, including using a steel that costs about four times as much as the 1095 that TOPS uses. It also includes a “handmade” “Italian leather” sheath, whereas the TOPS comes with a Kydex sheath.

The CFK does all of that (much, much more expensive steel, also harder to work/grind), upgraded sheath, upgraded satin finish, and cross the Atlantic, and does it for about half the price of the TOPS version. And everybody still has to make a profit. Hmmmm……

 

[druid189]

I wouldn't take the scales off. If they are attached properly they most likely use an epoxy like West Systems, Acraglass or G Flex. These aren't hardware store epoxies. The only reason to remove the scales would be to access an area to test that wouldn't be seen after the test. You'd likely have residue to deal with on the tang, and in any case the patina should be easy to remove (Flitz or similar) on an exposed part.

Don't worry about further patina testing. You guys have done a good job and I'm convinced that the knives are not stainless. I do believe this is a good start. It's not imperical as you say, but it's good enough for me.

In my opinion, further proof is on the company itself. Maybe they have no interest in showing us their processes, maybe they do. They appear to sell enough volume to dismiss our concerns.

I have no problem seeing "test results" from patina tests on the blade. I'd be happy to do the test if you wanted. I too am convinced this steel is not stainless.

And I agree. The company could straighten this whole mess out if they wanted to - but as I said earlier, they really shouldn't have to succumb to the rants of anyone or everyone wanting to know every single piece of information they are not entitled to know. I'm all for honesty but I'm also for a certain amount of a company's privacy.

EDIT: Also, of the knife in my possession and all those I've seen on the site, they state in their ads that the final finishing on their blades is not what you'd see on a Tops, or especially a custom knife. The one I have is definitely not a "pristine, highly polished" blade. Shiny? Yes, kind of.....a grayish shiny......but there are definite belt grind marks on the blade from spine to cutting edge. I'd be willing to bet big money that if you chemically stripped the finish off a Tops TBT, it has a way better finish under the coating than this does. People are well aware that the final finishing process makes up a good portion in the final determination in the cost of a blade. If you cut that process out, you almost have to reduce the cost of the blade. From what I can see, this is more than a reasonable assumption for the 'relatively cheap' cost [comparatively speaking] of these knives.

 

[Sam Wilson]

I have no problem seeing "test results" from patina tests on the blade. I'd be happy to do the test if you wanted. I too am convinced this steel is not stainless.

And I agree. The company could straighten this whole mess out if they wanted to - but as I said earlier, they really shouldn't have to succumb to the rants of anyone or everyone wanting to know every single piece of information they are not entitled to know. I'm all for honesty but I'm also for a certain amount of a company's privacy.

EDIT: Also, of the knife in my possession and all those I've seen on the site, they state in their ads that the final finishing on their blades is not what you'd see on a Tops, or especially a custom knife. The one I have is definitely not a "pristine, highly polished" blade. Shiny? Yes, kind of.....a grayish shiny......but there are definite belt grind marks on the blade from spine to cutting edge. I'd be willing to bet big money that if you chemically stripped the finish off a Tops TBT, it has a way better finish under the coating than this does. People are well aware that the final finishing process makes up a good portion in the final determination in the cost of a blade. If you cut that process out, you almost have to reduce the cost of the blade. From what I can see, this is more than a reasonable assumption for the 'relatively cheap' cost [comparatively speaking] of these knives.

Well, nothing against TOPS, but I did chemically strip a Tracker from them, and it had numerous grind marks, imperfections, and even pitting on the blade. It was far from the way the finish appears in the picture of the "Tracker" style knife you have pictured, but to be fair, I haven't seen the CFK version in hand. I'm pretty sure the advantages of a thick coating on a blade and how it hides imperfections is not lost on TOPS.

 

[druid189]

Well, nothing against TOPS, but I did chemically strip a Tracker from them, and it had numerous grind marks, imperfections, and even pitting on the blade. It was far from the way the finish appears in the picture of the "Tracker" style knife you have pictured, but to be fair, I haven't seen the CFK version in hand. I'm pretty sure the advantages of a thick coating on a blade and how it hides imperfections is not lost on TOPS.

Thank you. I would have lost big money then

Another question I might add.....on the Tops version......does it still use that unique saw grind angle? The ones I see from CFK don't seem to have "that unique" of a saw grind....many seem to have no saw at all...

Example:

I only see [on a majority of this style] the odd shaping in the concave area forward of the "thumb ramp" area

 

[Sam Wilson]

That I don’t know. My Tracker is around 4 or 5 years old, or so. It does have the sawback, obviously.

 

[Alamor]

Breaking it down by materials cost per knife would be very difficult, without knowing what their materials costs are, and what deals they can get through various vendors. Another way to look at it would be a “similar” product, and what it costs, and then the various differences.

If we look at the CFK “tracker,” the Buy it Now price I saw most commonly for the “D2” version on ebay was about $100. If we look at the TOPS Tracker, the large Tracker 1, it seems to run right around $200 on ebay, give or take a few bucks.

The similarities: both advertise plenty of hand grinding and/or finishing, obviously they have a similar design.

The differences: This is where it gets interesting. The TOPS knife is all made in the U.S.A., and has 1095 carbon steel with a black “traction” coating. The CFK version allegedly starts life “somewhere in Europe,” as far as the steel, then it is “forged” in England. Presumably the knives are ground and heat treated there, also. Don’t really know when the handles are put on, but either way, skilled craftsmen have to do it, either in “England” or the U.S.A. I believe the CFK version uses micarta for the handle, as well.

The CFK version then has to make it all the way over here to the U.S., shipping, associated fees, etc. According to CFK, more “skilled craftsmen” then do more work on them here, whether it’s attaching the handles, or final finishing.

Now, the CFK knife does all this, including using a steel that costs about four times as much as the 1095 that TOPS uses. It also includes a “handmade” “Italian leather” sheath, whereas the TOPS comes with a Kydex sheath.

The CFK does all of that (much, much more expensive steel, also harder to work/grind), upgraded sheath, upgraded satin finish, and cross the Atlantic, and does it for about half the price of the TOPS version. And everybody still has to make a profit. Hmmmm……

I totally get where you are coming from. And I am not here to argue with anyone. I'm just wondering if TOPS being a bigger company than CFK and having the good reputation could have something to do with the prices? Also, TOPS is sold by authorized dealers. And CFK is selling straight to the consumer. Who knows how much the TBT is being wholesaled for? I would bet it's under $100 though.

 

[druid189]

That I don’t know. My Tracker is around 4 or 5 years old, or so. It does have the sawback, obviously.

found the answer - yes, they still use the odd "left/right" saw blade style. It's not the same the original used but still present:

 

[Sam Wilson]

I totally get where you are coming from. And I am not here to argue with anyone. I'm just wondering if TOPS being a bigger company than CFK and having the good reputation could have something to do with the prices? Also, TOPS is sold by authorized dealers. And CFK is selling straight to the consumer. Who knows how much the TBT is being wholesaled for? I would bet it's under $100 though.

Alamor, I get where you're coming from, and I don't want to argue either. My point to this whole thing is not whether these knives are the greatest, or a long list of other things. My point is that I don't believe they are made in England, and in my mind, if a company is not being truthful about something, it makes everything suspect. Look at things from a knife maker's perspective. There is very little to no room in a large knife that sells for $100 for any hand finishing. There's just no margin. Everything has to be done by machines, and even then, there's not a huge margin for a large knife for $100.

Why go through all the trouble of operating on two or more different continents and all the other work involved, for next to no profit. There's a cheaper widget to sell, so go sell that. The other answer is that these knives are being made for a few bucks a pop using labor that is not, shall we say, cutting edge. Either way, nobody is making much of any money if it's done the way they say. Period. And that's my point. It doesn't add up.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

They wouldn't have to succumb to pressure. It's their prerogative, but I won't buy their knives because of it.

With all due respect to the company and those that enjoy the knives, I don't buy their story. I don't point to evidence other than material and labor + shipping costs. Beyond that I just have a bad feeling about the story. Gut instinct I guess. Couple that with the possibility that the company doesn't want to prove anything and I'll pass.

Knife manufacturers don't have to tell us anything. The ones I respect do though. In the realm of custom knives I've never had a maker that wasn't eager to point out the materials, ht and any other information I'd care to ask about. Without exception the maker was happy to tell me the steel, their process for ht, cryo or sub zero, method of final sharpening, etc. Usually they give more information than you even ask for. I don't necessarily see this as more honest, but more enthusiastic? Absolutely. I want the knife maker to be super proud of their hard work and with that, from my pov, comes the information that this company has thus far shied away from providing.

Again, it doesn't make them wrong, but it doesn't trip my personal "feel good" meter that I really enjoy either.

When I have a customer ask anything at all about my materials or processes it makes me happy to provide them with anything at all that they might be curious about. I'm enthusiastic about my work. I'm proud of it. I want my knife maker to feel the same way.

 

[Alamor]

Alamor, I get where you're coming from, and I don't want to argue either. My point to this whole thing is not whether these knives are the greatest, or a long list of other things. My point is that I don't believe they are made in England, and in my mind, if a company is not being truthful about something, it makes everything suspect. Look at things from a knife maker's perspective. There is very little to no room in a large knife that sells for $100 for any hand finishing. There's just no margin. Everything has to be done by machines, and even then, there's not a huge margin for a large knife for $100.

Why go through all the trouble of operating on two or more different continents and all the other work involved, for next to no profit. There's a cheaper widget to sell, so go sell that. The other answer is that these knives are being made for a few bucks a pop using labor that is not, shall we say, cutting edge. Either way, nobody is making much of any money if it's done the way they say. Period. And that's my point. It doesn't add up.

Fair enough. If I was pouring my heart and souls into making bad ass custom knives like you and other members are, I would probably have the same point of view. I am a hunter and I only use my knife a few weeks out of the year. So if I can find a knife that will do the job and it's affordable, then I can live with the the story I'm being fed. No matter how fuzzy it is. I hope that doesn't make sound like a prick?

 

[Sam Wilson]

Fair enough. If I was pouring my heart and souls into making bad ass custom knives like you and other members are, I would probably have the same point of view. I am a hunter and I only use my knife a few weeks out of the year. So if I can find a knife that will do the job and it's affordable, then I can live with the the story I'm being fed. No matter how fuzzy it is. I hope that doesn't make sound like a prick?

Absolutely not. I don't have a problem in the least with you or anyone else owning one of their knives (not that anyone needs my approval, anyway. But hey, its the internets, we come here to give our opinions, right?)

I say use the knife and enjoy it, and I hope it gives you good service. My issue has always been with the way the company handles itself, not their consumers. I just want people, whether they're my customers or anyone else's, to know the truth of the matter. Like Anthony's post above, THAT is the big deal.

Also, thank you for being so respectful.

Sam

 

[Sam Wilson]

They wouldn't have to succumb to pressure. It's their prerogative, but I won't buy their knives because of it.

With all due respect to the company and those that enjoy the knives, I don't buy their story. I don't point to evidence other than material and labor + shipping costs. Beyond that I just have a bad feeling about the story. Gut instinct I guess. Couple that with the possibility that the company doesn't want to prove anything and I'll pass.

Knife manufacturers don't have to tell us anything. The ones I respect do though. In the realm of custom knives I've never had a maker that wasn't eager to point out the materials, ht and any other information I'd care to ask about. Without exception the maker was happy to tell me the steel, their process for ht, cryo or sub zero, method of final sharpening, etc. Usually they give more information than you even ask for. I don't necessarily see this as more honest, but more enthusiastic? Absolutely. I want the knife maker to be super proud of their hard work and with that, from my pov, comes the information that this company has thus far shied away from providing.

Again, it doesn't make them wrong, but it doesn't trip my personal "feel good" meter that I really enjoy either.

When I have a customer ask anything at all about my materials or processes it makes me happy to provide them with anything at all that they might be curious about. I'm enthusiastic about my work. I'm proud of it. I want my knife maker to feel the same way.

THIS, THIS, and THIS. All day long. Excellent post, Anthony. :thumbup:

 

[druid189]

They wouldn't have to succumb to pressure. It's their prerogative, but I won't buy their knives because of it.

and respectfully I say, that is absolutely your prerogative. I'll never tell anyone they can or can't do what they want...and contrary to popular belief, I do understand where you are coming from. Many, not all, many....custom knife makers are providing some of the finest blades ever to be produced - I count Mr. Wilson in that group, BTW - and they know what they have to go through to make those custom pieces. I'll not deny that, not even after the worst argument ever. But one thing I think escapes them is that not everyone has [or has to] have their absolute precision...their absolute adherence to the finest detail...their desire to be 'world renowned' [if that's their desire] or their desire to make "big bucks" [again, if that's their desire] in the sales of their blades....or simply their personal quest to make "the perfect piece."

With all due respect to the company and those that enjoy the knives, I don't buy their story. I don't point to evidence other than material and labor + shipping costs. Beyond that I just have a bad feeling about the story. Gut instinct I guess. Couple that with the possibility that the company doesn't want to prove anything and I'll pass.

Again I respectfully say that I can absolutely compare this to the CS vs CRKT lawsuit in that 'just because' there's no information available, people [like me in that CS vs. argument] have to come up with some answer - to "reason" something out in their own minds. Having few...or no answers to their questions, tends to piss people off and because of that, they jump to conclusions [like in the CS threads] with what they think. The simple fact is, we don't know...really, none of us do except the folks at CFK.
And there's nothing wrong with following a gut feeling - half of my job is just that. But in order for me to do the job I do, I also have to take unknown factors into account - that potentially, those unknown factors might actually be true. Call it "taking it on faith" or whatever. In as much as you "don't buy their story" - again, that's your right - but people have this tendency to look upon all businesses like all the Fortune 500's we see in the news......"cut-throat" this and "power-play" that...and yet, you and I will still prefer to run to the little corner store to get bread and milk from the family/guy/gal because their little store just seems just that much more "altruistic" when compared to big box/chains.

Knife manufacturers don't have to tell us anything. The ones I respect do though. In the realm of custom knives I've never had a maker that wasn't eager to point out the materials, ht and any other information I'd care to ask about. Without exception the maker was happy to tell me the steel, their process for ht, cryo or sub zero, method of final sharpening, etc. Usually they give more information than you even ask for. I don't necessarily see this as more honest, but more enthusiastic? Absolutely. I want the knife maker to be super proud of their hard work and with that, from my pov, comes the information that this company has thus far shied away from providing.

Again, that's absolutely admirable from that custom knife maker. However I'd cautionarily state that if they expect me to pay anywhere up to $2,000 for a knife....they'd BETTER tell me everything I want to know. Otherwise, I won't buy it and just as easily smear "their good name" on every forum I could. Why? Because at wanting up to two grand for a knife, I don't want to be taken for a ride. But we aren't talking about custom makers, are we? Not in the sense of how we look at Lyle, Wilson, et al. If CFK was charging like Lyle, Wilson, et al then yes - absolutely - I could agree 1000% on what you guys are saying. The price point of CFK knives doesn't necessarily support the scathing hate they seem to get though. No matter where I look, I see the same thing from them over and over [not verbatim, these are my words here] - "decent, yet affordable knives for the masses." So far, I don't see anything that makes me question that generalization.

Again, it doesn't make them wrong, but it doesn't trip my personal "feel good" meter that I really enjoy either.

Point taken but again, we aren't talking about $thousand+ dollar creations that take 6 months to get, either. On average, I'd guess they sell knives at around 50-70 dollars per knife [that's a random guess]. I've seen some go for ridiculously cheap and some go for waaay more than I'd personally pay...but again, they aren't telling you this is a Jimmy Lyle...they are saying it's decent for the bid cost. That's the other thing....the consumer gets to decide their "worth" - it's not dictated by the maker. I'm pretty sure I'd love a Wilson knife - but there's no way in Hell I'd pay the money he's asking for them either. That is the price we both pay [pardon the pun] for extreme excellence. Obviously, CFK doesn't adhere to such a high standard but then again, that allows more knives to fill the market.

When I have a customer ask anything at all about my materials or processes it makes me happy to provide them with anything at all that they might be curious about. I'm enthusiastic about my work. I'm proud of it. I want my knife maker to feel the same way.

And I would agree if I made things for customer orders. I only make things for me but only because I need it at the time and have the means to accomplish it. See, I don't have a business as my main source of income - or - on the side for "extra cash." If I did, that would be another matter - but that doesn't mean I'm going to tell you what I paid for this sheet of leather, the cost of the dyes or their sources, the threads for stitching or the ______, who I had make the Kydex sheath or whatever intricate and personal nuances of my business either. I'd tell you it's made from this, with this color dye, this color/thickness stitching lace/thread...give as many pictures as you wanted from whatever angle you asked for, perhaps even allow for a haggle on price [or not] - and you'll either like it or not, buy it or not. That's me..so at the very least, I can understand and even respect why there might be some "radio silence" from CFK on certain and particular aspects of their business.

Just now, I checked their bay ratings. more than 15 THOUSAND positive feedbacks and only 8 negatives [with 12 neutrals]. Given the fact that EBay shoppers are way more fickle than the average consumer, that alone has to say something about them and their business. If their customers thought their products [or business practices] were the absolute crap that some think they are, then the numbers would be reversed. I'm also guessing that their "lifetime guarantee" might also have something to do with it. I have never....EVER...held a Pakistani knife [that I owned or just played with] that EVER had that type of warranty.

 

[Sam Wilson]

They didn't seem to have any problem telling old Last_Ditch that information. Why insult so many inquiring minds by shutting everyone out now? Pretty weird...
Wait, you don't think Last_Ditch was actually.......Nah, that's crazy talk.

I had purchased a CFK knife (1095HC) last week, and was patiently waiting for it's arrival. I did a search here to see if there was any info on the company. I was shocked to say the least. My heart sank after reading most of the info. The knife arrived yesterday. After spending a few minutes looking it over, I was a little confused. I spent $50 on this knife, but it looked fairly decent.

I decided to contact the CFK guy from the "auction" site. I asked him very specifically if this was a premade stamped out blade he put a handle on and called it custom. I even tried to get fancy and posted the legal dictionary link to Misrepresentation, and False Pretenses. I expected a few days to pass before a reply, but to my surprise I spent a little over an hour with him on the phone, 10 minutes after my email was sent out tonight.

He stated when the company was started a year and a few months ago, they tried to get into the typical outdoor stores and various publications. They had a hard time getting space due to the saturation of well known knife brands already out there. They made a few Tom Brown tracker clones, and copied a few other notable designs to sell on the "auction" site. This, he said, was their biggest downfall. CFK was contacted by those knife makers, threatening with copyright laws. Tom Brown is a TM not just a design they were using. This hurt the name CFK obviously. CFK stopped making that specific design and stopped using the Tom Brown name (they still make a variant of the design, legally). He said they clearly made some mistakes early on trying to become a household name in the cutting business, but was making every attempt at making things better from then on.

Since, they have been making knives to sell at wholesale prices on the interwebs. Their idea was to get their knives in the hands of actual users to show the quality of what they were making at an affordable price for the common working man. Thus, putting their money where their mouth is. They have 2 knife "lines" in production. The CFK label (the traditional knife company starting line) and the newer IPak Line. The Ipak line was created by a guy named Jason (He is the guy you see with all the tattoo's) He is a 15 year Army SF vet. The IPak is the less refined, "budget" line.

During our chat, he offered all the information I could take in. Everything from the guys names in Essex, England that grind the blades, their phone numbers and contact information, to the guys in Oregon who put handles on the knives and do the finish work. He gave me general information on numbers of sales, where the leather comes from, and buying bulk steels. He talked about where the company started, where it was heading, the direction he wants to take it, and everything in between. The guy I spoke with seemed genuine and honest.

I am pleased with the knife I received from them. I work with Army Aviation quite closely, and actually took the knife to the Sheet metal shop to use their equipment to run a test. The knife was listed as 1095HC treated to 58-60RC. It hit very close to it, 3 strikes. Close enough that I can't dispute it. I didn't capture the specific pressure used, but the blade did flex 1/2" before we removed the pressure on a flex test. No bend memory or disfigurement. I have yet to take it out to do any "real" use testing, but I have no fear it will hold up under intended use.

This information is not intended to change any ones mind, or take it as gospel. I did not call the people who's information he offered to me, nor did I fly to Oregon and sit down with him and his legal team. This is simply me letting the masses know what information I got from him and my own personal experience with CFK. This was my first CFK purchase, and I will not run away if another good deal presents itself in the future.