CFK Knife update and company history

Omega Leather Works said:
Can someone with a D2 blade run a patina test? It should be fairly difficult, but not impossible to get a mustard patina on the steel.
Without an analyzer it's impossible to know the alloy for sure, but the first thing I'd do is compare the corrosion resistance to another knife I have in D2.
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These are all D2. I'll do it if you give me some instructions. I assume I can run the test on a spine and buff it out if it takes?
 
I can just do it on the butt end of the red handled bowie or remove the handles and do a big section of the flat.
 
You should be able to buff it, but please don't do it if you are uncomfortable with the possibility of a permanent mark, or even light pitting. Unlikely, but possible.

Do you have a knife that is known (for sure) to be d2?

If it were mine I'd apply mustard to an area and let it dry. You should have some discoloration when the mustard is cleaned off. Doing it side by side with a known blade in d2 should be useful.

If mustard didn't work I'd try vinegar dabbed on with a paper towel. It may need repeated since it dries quickly.

If you get no results it doesn't mean that it isn't d2 necessarily, but I'd be very suspicious in any case.
 
Omega Leather Works said:
You should be able to buff it, but please don't do it if you are uncomfortable with the possibility of a permanent mark, or even light pitting. Unlikely, but possible.

Do you have a knife that is known (for sure) to be d2?

If it were mine I'd apply mustard to an area and let it dry. You should have some discoloration when the mustard is cleaned off. Doing it side by side with a known blade in d2 should be useful.

If mustard didn't work I'd try vinegar dabbed on with a paper towel. It may need repeated since it dries quickly.

If you get no results it doesn't mean that it isn't d2 necessarily, but I'd be very suspicious in any case.
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That's it? Just plain French's Mustard until it dries? no time limit? Once I get an answer I'll do it on this one. In the interim, it lights a firesteel up nicely though:



 
It's not an exact science, you can do it 100 ways. The only thing it would show is that it is or isn't stainless. An experienced person could probably tell by the results if it has a high percentage of chromium as well just going by the difficulty in obtaining a patina.

One thing I've always found interesting is that the cheapest, crappiest, knives are almost always stainless steel. Stainless is usually more expensive than a simple carbon steel, and the ht is always more difficult. Truly the company should be able to make a better knife at the same price. Maybe the non steel savvy buyer would just let it rust. All I can figure.

Druid the steel type shouldn't matter in how well it throws sparks from a ferro rod, but I don't think you were implying otherwise.
 
I don't recall having any other D2 knives, but I will look through my Benchmades.

I'll give the test a shot. I'll try mustard and some vinegar/salt if I remove the handles.

I do know it is not recommended to leave these "D2" knives in the leather to store. One bowie looked like it might be starting to stain in a few spots in the sheath so I oiled up the blade.
 
crufflers said:
64E37BDC-7032-48F0-A6F9-5CF1C54BD692.jpg


These are all D2. I'll do it if you give me some instructions. I assume I can run the test on a spine and buff it out if it takes?
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The bottom knife in your photo looks to me like it has the CFK logo on it. Are you 100% convinced it is made out of "forged D2 steel", just curious?
 
buckfynn said:
The bottom knife in your photo looks to me like it has the CFK logo on it. Are you 100% convinced it is made out of "forged D2 steel", just curious?
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That logo you spoke of appears almost identical to the one on mine [hard to see in the pic].

I'm not a metallurgist, nor am I a foundry worker. What I can tell you is the definition of "forged" as per the "atc group" I quickly found [in like 20 seconds] here: http://www.atcgroup.com.au/CustomCastingForging/TheDifferenceBetweenCastingForging.aspx which says:

"Forging is the application of thermal and mechanical energy to steel billets or ingots to cause the material to change shape while in a solid state."

Okay......so.....I understand that to mean they pour the composition of D2 steel into a mold, which makes the billet and then forge it into workable stock that the consumer buys. Sound about right?

The blade they sent me has obvious imperfections along the sides....like....'elongated divots' or 'pressure warpage' types of marks. I think "warpage" is the incorrect word though because that means to "twist out of shape" and that's not what I see here. It's like "dented" but not pitted. It's hard to describe but I make them visible in the video I've taken.

As far as "identifying" the steel used in my blade, if someone has a way for me to test this [like the mustard idea] I'll give it a shot. They state in writing my knife is made from D2 tool steel. I have no reason to doubt that at this time. I'm about to get the camera and mustard out to do the test. I'll post my findings after work tomorrow.

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@Omega: No no, I was showing the sparks to depict how very "carbon rich" the blades are. The ferro rod will strike with stainless steel but not strike as well as on carbon steels. As it was already mentioned, Pakistani knives [at least the ones I had] were all a type of 440 stainless and I have never gotten good sparks from them, nowhere near what I got from this knife anyway...
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onto the other haters:
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There are those who have stated that "claiming that forged D2 steel is simply laughable"...meaning, they believe that D2 cannot be forged...so for you guys...I found this:

http://www.steelforge.com/custom-forged-shapes/forging-capabilities-chart/

http://www.steelforge.com/tool-steel-d2/


^^they make it^^ and so do others.

So there you have it - yes it can be - so your complaints are invalid, null and void.

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So this begs the question....are CFK knives made from forged D2 steel?

Well, we now know that D2 is in fact, forged....so....are they making the blades from that D2 steel? This steel has a lot of the characteristics of a high[er] carbon blade [as opposed to 440, etc]. Again, I'm not a metallurgist but at this point I have no reason to believe they are lying.
 
druid189 said:
That logo you spoke of appears almost identical to the one on mine [hard to see in the pic].

I'm not a metallurgist, nor am I a foundry worker. What I can tell you is the definition of "forged" as per the "atc group" I quickly found [in like 20 seconds] here: http://www.atcgroup.com.au/CustomCastingForging/TheDifferenceBetweenCastingForging.aspx which says:

"Forging is the application of thermal and mechanical energy to steel billets or ingots to cause the material to change shape while in a solid state."

Okay......so.....I understand that to mean they pour the composition of D2 steel into a mold, which makes the billet and then forge it into workable stock that the consumer buys. Sound about right?

The blade they sent me has obvious imperfections along the sides....like....'elongated divots' or 'pressure warpage' types of marks. I think "warpage" is the incorrect word though because that means to "twist out of shape" and that's not what I see here. It's like "dented" but not pitted. It's hard to describe but I make them visible in the video I've taken.

As far as "identifying" the steel used in my blade, if someone has a way for me to test this [like the mustard idea] I'll give it a shot. They state in writing my knife is made from D2 tool steel. I have no reason to doubt that at this time. I'm about to get the camera and mustard out to do the test. I'll post my findings after work tomorrow.

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@Omega: No no, I was showing the sparks to depict how very "carbon rich" the blades are. The ferro rod will strike with stainless steel but not strike as well as on carbon steels. As it was already mentioned, Pakistani knives [at least the ones I had] were all a type of 440 stainless and I have never gotten good sparks from them, nowhere near what I got from this knife anyway...
----------

----------
onto the other haters:
----------

There are those who have stated that "claiming that forged D2 steel is simply laughable"...meaning, they believe that D2 cannot be forged...so for you guys...I found this:

http://www.steelforge.com/custom-forged-shapes/forging-capabilities-chart/

http://www.steelforge.com/tool-steel-d2/


^^they make it^^ and so do others.

So there you have it - yes it can be - so your complaints are invalid, null and void.

------------
------------

So this begs the question....are CFK knives made from forged D2 steel?

Well, we now know that D2 is in fact, forged....so....are they making the blades from that D2 steel? This steel has a lot of the characteristics of a high[er] carbon blade [as opposed to 440, etc]. Again, I'm not a metallurgist but at this point I have no reason to believe they are lying.
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Say what you want, but "forged D2" when it comes to making a knife basically is laughable. There may be a handful of guys in the world that "forge" D2 when they make a knife. I say that to give the benefit of the doubt. I don't know of any, and to be honest, I can't recall ONE that I have ever heard of. Not saying it doesn't happen, but the question is: "Why would you?"

It's not a steel that is typically forged. You buy it in bar stock form, and grind it to shape. By your definition of the steel being forged at the foundry, practically every knife in existence could be considered "forged" since the barstock was forged at the factory. This is ridiculous, and you're bordering on the ludicrous now. "Obvious imperfections" like "elongated divots" are the sign of poor finishing work, not necessarily forging.

Null and void? Lol, you copy and paste some stuff from the interwebs and act like you understand the first thing about making knives in a production setting. "Carbon rich" has nothing to do with striking a ferro rod. I have done it with glass, and a lot of other sharp objects. Does that make them "carbon rich?" This is getting beyond funny.
 
buckfynn said:
The bottom knife in your photo looks to me like it has the CFK logo on it. Are you 100% convinced it is made out of "forged D2 steel", just curious?
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Uhm, no. I'm not convinced. Those are all candidates for testing since they are all CFK or iPak knives. That was the point of posting them - they are all from the "D2" line of CFK.
 
crufflers said:
Uhm, no. I'm not convinced. Those are all candidates for testing since they are all CFK or iPak knives. That was the point of posting them - they are all from the "D2" line of CFK.
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FWIW, here's what I got using mustard and salt for 30 minutes:





A grey outline of the mustard but I think it needed salt to discolor it. For the record, I am not claiming anything about CFK knives or steel. I'd like to get the actual facts like everyone else. Like I posted I personally think they are Pakistani. I also think if there was no BS surrounding the origins, they would be decent bargain blades. I haven't beat on mine yet to really test... I did knick up and roll the edge on a G10 Cryo prying the Scale off this one though :) They are glued on pretty well. I guess I should have used an old Presidio ;)



 
crufflers said:
Uhm, no. I'm not convinced. Those are all candidates for testing since they are all CFK or iPak knives. That was the point of posting them - they are all from the "D2" line of CFK.
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Thanks Crufflers, I appreciate your response and honesty.
 
Sam Wilson said:
Say what you want, but "forged D2" when it comes to making a knife basically is laughable. There may be a handful of guys in the world that "forge" D2 when they make a knife. I say that to give the benefit of the doubt. I don't know of any, and to be honest, I can't recall ONE that I have ever heard of. Not saying it doesn't happen, but the question is: "Why would you?"

It's not a steel that is typically forged. You buy it in bar stock form, and grind it to shape. By your definition of the steel being forged at the foundry, practically every knife in existence could be considered "forged" since the barstock was forged at the factory. This is ridiculous, and you're bordering on the ludicrous now. "Obvious imperfections" like "elongated divots" are the sign of poor finishing work, not necessarily forging.

Null and void? Lol, you copy and paste some stuff from the interwebs and act like you understand the first thing about making knives in a production setting. "Carbon rich" has nothing to do with striking a ferro rod. I have done it with glass, and a lot of other sharp objects. Does that make them "carbon rich?" This is getting beyond funny.
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It's not a matter of "say what I want" - it's a matter of "what is" - and "what is" is you have a choice when it comes to steel....cast or forged. Why? Because it comes to YOU that way. You can't "revisionist history" that fact away because your petty little tantrums say so. The simple fact is you can either make knives from a cast or forged bar of steel.

As far as "practically every knife could be called...." Yes that's true....technically they could be. And as 'ludicrous' as you might think it is - if someone decides to capitalize on it as a clever marketing strategy, don't get all pissy because you weren't smart enough to think of it on your own. Relish the fact they will have to defend that in court but you won't.

RE: The ferro rod - now you are just being idiotic. Of course you can get sparks from glass and rocks harder than 7 on the Mohs scale, et al. My comparison was with the 440-esque steels used in Paki knives I previously owned which, more often than not, tended not to throw sparks off a rod. The pics I posted were from a single strike that I screenshot from the video.

And yes, I said there were imperfections because they exist. I don't know how they got there and yes, the finish is very far from perfect...but guess what?....oh yes, that's right........THEIR ADS SAY SO. So again, truth in advertising? I'd have to say "yes." Of course you won't because...well...you are the self-appointed critic of everything not made by you [you don't work for Cold Steel by any chance?].

I don't purport myself to be anything more than I am...but at least I don't insult the community as you do by saying you are some type of expert in the matter of steels. You are little more than a one-man shop-hand playing out the fantasy with a belt grinder. Even when presented the proof in black and white, you cry 'foul' and deflect the fact you are wrong with the exhaustively lame attempt at insulting the messenger.

I would laugh my a** off if CFK started making hollow handled knives just to spite you. Stay in the shop and out of conversations. It's where you do your best work.
 
druid189 said:
It's not a matter of "say what I want" - it's a matter of "what is" - and "what is" is you have a choice when it comes to steel....cast or forged. Why? Because it comes to YOU that way. You can't "revisionist history" that fact away because your petty little tantrums say so. The simple fact is you can either make knives from a cast or forged bar of steel.

As far as "practically every knife could be called...." Yes that's true....technically they could be. And as 'ludicrous' as you might think it is - if someone decides to capitalize on it as a clever marketing strategy, don't get all pissy because you weren't smart enough to think of it on your own. Relish the fact they will have to defend that in court but you won't.

RE: The ferro rod - now you are just being idiotic. Of course you can get sparks from glass and rocks harder than 7 on the Mohs scale, et al. My comparison was with the 440-esque steels used in Paki knives I previously owned which, more often than not, tended not to throw sparks off a rod. The pics I posted were from a single strike that I screenshot from the video.

And yes, I said there were imperfections because they exist. I don't know how they got there and yes, the finish is very far from perfect...but guess what?....oh yes, that's right........THEIR ADS SAY SO. So again, truth in advertising? I'd have to say "yes." Of course you won't because...well...you are the self-appointed critic of everything not made by you [you don't work for Cold Steel by any chance?].

I don't purport myself to be anything more than I am...but at least I don't insult the community as you do by saying you are some type of expert in the matter of steels. You are little more than a one-man shop-hand playing out the fantasy with a belt grinder. Even when presented the proof in black and white, you cry 'foul' and deflect the fact you are wrong with the exhaustively lame attempt at insulting the messenger.

I would laugh my a** off if CFK started making hollow handled knives just to spite you. Stay in the shop and out of conversations. It's where you do your best work.
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Uh, ok, sounds good. Good factual argument. Oh wait...

I usually don't waste time arguing on the internet, and can't really stand it. But as long as this keeps this thread alive and at the top, and making it more visible for google, I don't mind. Hurl all the insults necessary, but everybody who reads this thread sees the obvious truth.
 
Were I the owner of CFK, I'd just be delighted for all the attention this generates for my business. Today, the old, stupid and uninitiated that I currently am, acquired a couple of the CFG fixed blade knives, D2, various hardness. One I bought was a second, and even with their blow-up photo, in strong sunlight I had to really look to find it again. I didn't expect them to be as heavy and well presenting, so I'm a bit reluctant to take them out and bash them about. I like the Enlan Bee series, too, carry a Spyderco, and am partial to them for EDC. But I'll strap one of the CFK's to my pack, just to admire if nothing else.

Looking forward to the furtherance of this entertaining thread, and of course, the Movie when it's released, Druid. ;-)
 
MrMotivations said:
Were I the owner of CFK, I'd just be delighted for all the attention this generates for my business. Today, the old, stupid and uninitiated that I currently am, acquired a couple of the CFG fixed blade knives, D2, various hardness. One I bought was a second, and even with their blow-up photo, in strong sunlight I had to really look to find it again. I didn't expect them to be as heavy and well presenting, so I'm a bit reluctant to take them out and bash them about. I like the Enlan Bee series, too, carry a Spyderco, and am partial to them for EDC. But I'll strap one of the CFK's to my pack, just to admire if nothing else.

Looking forward to the furtherance of this entertaining thread, and of course, the Movie when it's released, Druid. ;-)
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Saaay, your name's not Jason, is it? (Either one of them?) And let me know if you run into Ole Las_Ditch, would you? Got a few questions for him.

Regardless, let me bump this to the top for you, least I can do.
 
crufflers said:
Speaking as someone who is interested in these knives (CFK and iPak), and owning a few myself... I would guess they are made in Pakistan, and maybe some have handles installed here, maybe not. Maybe even some finishing work done here. As someone who has followed this company since I spotted these knives on Ebay, the stories are fishy. As others have stated, they may be good quality bargains, but cut the BS.

I like the pieces I have, but I would like them more if I knew for sure where they come from. Certain knives like the D2 line with micarta and especially the CFK branded bowies are pretty sweet knives. The iPak line is definitely rougher, but they still have some appeal. Anyone else think that the name "iPAK" might just come from "PAK" istan? It makes sense to me.

Some of the file work, pins, and embellishments especially on the Damascus and more artsy looking pieces definitely look like other Pakistani knives I have seen. I can post pics of mine, but I don't have any of the fancy stuff.
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Also, really good post. And I would bet you're probably very right. Good info. Nothing necessarily wrong, just be upfront about it.
 
Omega Leather Works said:
You should be able to buff it, but please don't do it if you are uncomfortable with the possibility of a permanent mark, or even light pitting. Unlikely, but possible.

Do you have a knife that is known (for sure) to be d2?

If it were mine I'd apply mustard to an area and let it dry. You should have some discoloration when the mustard is cleaned off. Doing it side by side with a known blade in d2 should be useful.
If mustard didn't work I'd try vinegar dabbed on with a paper towel. It may need repeated since it dries quickly.
If you get no results it doesn't mean that it isn't d2 necessarily, but I'd be very suspicious in any case.
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I did it on my be CFK D2 knife. I rubbed the mustard on, let it dry on (about 45 min) then washed it off with cold water. I got a slight discoloration. It almost has a "nickel" effect. But it is very feint. I tried taking a pic with my phone but it doesn't come out really good in the pic. Should I leave it on longer to get a better effect?
 
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