CHINESE Rip off TANGO Tim Britton.....Beware !

[Mossyhorn]

I thought links to counterfeits were a violation.

 

[Thomas Linton]

A mere coincidence.

 

[Kizer Cutlery]

So its identical, but not a copy?

As odd as that sounds right now, that is correct (as I would define a copy in this case to mean a replicated design that was not authorized). I will expand on this after EOD 6/25/2013 once I have heard from Tim (or not).

 

[Kizer Cutlery]

I thought links to counterfeits were a violation.

First of all, we are not producing counterfeits. I hope to prove that as we go forward.
I do not believe I linked to any products, counterfeits or not.

A mere coincidence.

Even though you intended this as sarcasm, I will still reply to it seriously. We would never use such childish excuses that are obviously false and have not done so.

The only reason I have not made any further statement is that I want to give Tim sufficient time to respond to my email communication.

David.

 

[Thomas Linton]

"Coincidence" would mean parallel lines of creativity, and history records such events. Hardly "childish," but I am glad we can rule that out.

Coincidence being eliminated, we are left with either the knives being different in some significant way or deliberate imitation by someone.

I fail to see how Mr. Britton is needed to establish that the knives are significantly different, were that the case.

 

[TriviaMonster]

"Coincidence" would mean parallel lines of creativity, and history records such events. Hardly "childish," but I am glad we can rule that out.

Coincidence being eliminated, we are left with either the knives being different in some significant way or deliberate imitation by someone.

I fail to see how Mr. Britton is needed to establish that the knives are significantly different, were that the case.

I think he is alluding to some sort of agreement or collaboration between Kizer and Tim? Hmm.

My guess: Tim: *answers phone* Hello?

Kizer: Hi, I am from Kizer, we would love to do a joint effort with you sometime in the future with your Tango design.

Tim: Maybe sometime in the future.

Kizer: Thanks! *starts making Tango's...*

 

[blademaker2]

1. KIZER, a Chinese company with booth at BLADE selling knives which violated USA copyright laws. Common law copyright held by Tim Britton.
2. KIZER, a Chinese company with booth at BLADE selling knives made in China which were not marked made in CHINA.
3. No record that I can find of this company paying GA State sales tax for 2012 and 2013. With all due fairness....they could have paid under another name.
4. BLADE show management is welcoming them back in 2014 with an even better booth location. (Steve Shackleford & Joe Kertzman)
OUR knife community must circle the wagons and do what we can to protect our cottage industry. None of us (makers) have the time or the expertise or the will to spend endless hours protecting our designs or our technology. I had hoped to get some understanding or support from Steve Shackleford at BLADE but he seems to think that his/their hands are tied. I've never before encountered a show where the management didn't reserve the right to refuse tables or booth space to someone. I'll follow this thread as I can.....I'm sure that we'll see a creative response to my posts.

 

[Kizer Cutlery]

I'm posting the timeline of events. I am in the process of gathering documents showing patent/copyright and prior communications as necessary.
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Cliff note version - Kizer designs/makes model 12-401 (aka prime mover), shows at blade 2012, tim places orders with kizer for this model and sells as his own design "tango". A provision for transferring ownership of design based on order amount was not satisfied before Blade show 2013 (i.e Kizer still owns the design). Kizer attends SHOT 2013 and Blade 2013 with this model. Tim, after coming to agreement with Kizer at Blade show 2013, posts on forums that Kizer "copied" the design.

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more detailed:

Bladeshow 2012 - Kizer debuts model 12-401 (at the time named prime mover)

After blade show 2012 - Tim approaches Kizer to discuss ordering model 12-401 with provisions to purchase the right to the design of the knife. Agreement was reached that AFTER a pre-agreed order amount had been reached, the right to the design would be transferred to Tim.

Tim places order for model 12-401

SHOT show 2013 - Kizer shows model 12-401/prime mover at show and CPF after party

Tim places additional orders, the pre-agreed quantity has not yet been reached before blade show 2013. (Kizer still owns the design of the knife).

Blade show 2013 - Kizer plans to attend Blade show with model 12-401 and other designs.

Sometime between the 2 blade shows, Tim began to sell model 12-401 as model "tango". When told that Kizer was attending Blade with model 12-401, Tim demanded that he is to be the sole US market distributor of this model since he is already selling this knife as his own design. Tim also threatened to have Kizer employee arrested for importing what he claims as "counterfeits".

At Bladeshow 2013 - Tim and Kizer visit each other and comes to terms. The rest of the show goes smoothly. (this section I can attest to as I spoke to Tim at the blade show and was told that everything is fine between Kizer and Tim).

2 days after Bladeshow 2013 - Tim posts on Bladeforums and other forums claiming Kizer is copying his designs.

 

[Karda]

As neither Kizer nor Mr. Britton have the proper membership to be advertising here and this whole mess is in very poor taste and etiquette, i'm closing this one down.