Chipped Fallkniven

chiral.grolim said:
Where does it say how "thin" the edge was??
According to an old thread, the Fallkniven A1 is ~0.060" behind the edge, ~20-dps (approximate, I know it's convex which should be stronger). http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/132281-What-s-the-blade-angle-on-the-A1

That is not a "thin bevel", that is a chopping edge and thicker than an ESEE Junglas, more like a Busse. Ever seen that happen to a Junglas chopping anything? What about a Busse? At 0.06", that should not have happened.
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Exactly. Furthermore, you can plainly see from the photo how thick the edge grind really is, and how wide the chunks that chipped were at the base: I would not consider that a thin grind... I've handled the A-1 and I found the grind too thick for my taste. The Odin I had was sharper it seemed to me (never really used it). Too bad the sheath scratched the hell out of mine, and kept doing it even after much work to solve the issue...

Fallknivens have been chipping for years if not decades... Type "chipping and Fallknivens", and see the dozens, if not hundreds, of threads on many websites on this very issue... I actually use these search terms as a great way to find all sorts of new and peculiar knife-related forums and websites while doing this, thus demonstrating the observation is universal... Find obscure new places and have fun!

I don't buy the "bad layer to sharpen off" either: Most people when resharpening will not match the original profile, a complicated task especially on the convex edges present here, where it is much easier to open up the final angle than to actually restore the original profile: Well yes, a blunter edge will "chip less", and thus be proclaimed to have "gone through" the "bad" metal... In a way it is true the problem can be alleviated, if the knife is duller, yet still seems sharper from polishing...

I've never had much faith in super steels anyway...

Gaston
 
Krissig12 said:
So did you scientifically replicate the contact with this rock?

There are WAY to many variables in play for you to draw any kind of conclusions from this experience. And who made the knives? What were their hardnesses? How well were they heat treated?
As for the rest of your experience with the two.... Once again, was EVERYTHING the same between them besides the steel?
I'm not saying vg10 CANT POSSIBLY be made to be better than 1095. I'm just saying that all things being the same, 1095 is the tougher steel.
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Do You have any personal experience with VG-10, to back-up Your statements?
Or is Your opinions based on what You have read on the forums?

Regards
Mikael
 
Mikael W said:
Do You have any personal experience with VG-10, to back-up Your statements?
Or is Your opinions based on what You have read on the forums?

Regards
Mikael
Click to expand...

Both.

I've read a lot on VG10, and the general consensus is that it's less tough than 1095.

But I've also had my own bad experiences with it. I had an F1 that was chipping even after I sharpened it a few times, so I sold it. And I have a couple friends whose VG10 Spydercos chipped right in front of my eyes, one from just a little work with hardwood, and the other from cutting some electrical cables. I find it hard to believe that all three examples are flukes

Vg10 isn't a bad steel though. It's great for food prep and lighter Edc tasks. But its not designed for hard use IMO
 
Krissig12 said:
Both.

I've read a lot on VG10, and the general consensus is that it's less tough than 1095.

But I've also had my own bad experiences with it. I had an F1 that was chipping even after I sharpened it a few times, so I sold it. And I have a couple friends whose VG10 Spydercos chipped right in front of my eyes, one from just a little work with hardwood, and the other from cutting some electrical cables. I find it hard to believe that all three examples are flukes

Vg10 isn't a bad steel though. It's great for food prep and lighter Edc tasks. But its not designed for hard use IMO
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Well, no experience with the big Fällkniven choppers then.
That's what could be read into Your posts!
In fact laminated VG-10 works very well for tough chopping tasks!
The main part of the blade is made of 420j2 steel.
A very tough steel for being stainless.
I have not had any factory edge trouble on my Odin & Tor.
No microchipping or failures to the edge at all!
When I hit the stone with the Odin, the damage was so minor, that it didn't showed in the pic's I posted here on BF!

No, it isn't the steel that is the problem, it's the final stages in the sharpening.
How to deal with this has to be a Q for the brandowners who uses VG-10.

Luckily the only VG-10 knife I have, the Frey that suffered from microchipping stopped after 4-5 sharpenings and now holds an edge just excellent!

Regards
Mikael
 
Mikael W said:
Well, no experience with the big Fällkniven choppers then.
That's what could be read into Your posts!
In fact laminated VG-10 works very well for tough chopping tasks!
The main part of the blade is made of 420j2 steel.
A very tough steel for being stainless.
I have not had any factory edge trouble on my Odin & Tor.
No microchipping or failures to the edge at all!
When I hit the stone with the Odin, the damage was so minor, that it didn't showed in the pic's I posted here on BF!

No, it isn't the steel that is the problem, it's the final stages in the sharpening.
How to deal with this has to be a Q for the brandowners who uses VG-10.

Luckily the only VG-10 knife I have, the Frey that suffered from microchipping stopped after 4-5 sharpenings and now holds an edge just excellent!

Regards
Mikael
Click to expand...

Okay........ But you aren't hitting the bones with the 420 part of the knife. The edge is just vg10


And you're right. I haven't had any experience with vg10 in big choppers. But if moderate use on smaller knives causes chipping, then I can only expect bad things to happen when trying to make a chopper out of it.

It's great to hear that vg10 is working for you though:thumbup:
 
Mikael W said:
Well, no experience with the big Fällkniven choppers then.
That's what could be read into Your posts!
In fact laminated VG-10 works very well for tough chopping tasks!
The main part of the blade is made of 420j2 steel.
A very tough steel for being stainless.
I have not had any factory edge trouble on my Odin & Tor.
No microchipping or failures to the edge at all!
When I hit the stone with the Odin, the damage was so minor, that it didn't showed in the pic's I posted here on BF!

No, it isn't the steel that is the problem, it's the final stages in the sharpening.
How to deal with this has to be a Q for the brandowners who uses VG-10.

Luckily the only VG-10 knife I have, the Frey that suffered from microchipping stopped after 4-5 sharpenings and now holds an edge just excellent!

Regards
Mikael
Click to expand...
my Odin still has 1+mm deep chip remain after it chipped 3.5 mm deep from hitting a rock 5yrs ago. Kind of costly accidentally chop. I make my own choppers nowadays so big honking chips are not acceptable to me.
 
bluntcut said:
my Odin still has 1+mm deep chip remain after it chipped 3.5 mm deep from hitting a rock 5yrs ago. Kind of costly accidentally chop. I make my own choppers nowadays so big honking chips are not acceptable to me.
Click to expand...

Well well well..........;)
 
I have hacked through pelvic bones with everything from an old USMC KaBar to a Becker BK16. I have NEVER had a blade chip or break on me. We have some BIG deer here in Missouri! I have, however, hacked at a set of 10 year old antlers and destroyed said KaBar. But, a pelvis isn't nearly as hard.
 
You can demolish a deer in a few minutes with an ESEE 5. I've done it. Odds are, you won't damage the edge whatsoever after 20 deer with the ESEE 5. Sorry that happened to your knife! I saw the falkniven torture video too and i was very impressed with the strength of laminated vg10. But, all steels and all heat treats have their tendencies and limitations. You can reproduce the edge and you might lose a couple of millimeters of edge, but the re profiled edge might be thicker and stronger than the original edge since the angle of the bevel will change the higher up you go on the blade. IMHO, I'd send that back to fallkniven and have them repair, replace, or refund you because chopping or not, I'd be plenty ticked off if this happened to my hard earned fallkniven. They have a reputation they have to uphold.
 
8thgentxn said:
When it came to bone I figured "like a Dumbass" to hack away. It did the job but after I was done I noticed the chips.
Click to expand...

Well there ya go!

What on earth are you doing "hacking" at deer bone?

Maybe instead of fan boy stress test videos, try a butchery classs?
 
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Ideally that should not happen with your knife. Realistically knives are made with human hands and we as a species have faults which will unfortunately become known whether in ourselves or products that our hands make, usually at the most inopportune time. I've had many falkies over the years and never had an issue and there are.many who would agree. If I had to hazard a guess based on what I've heard, seen, and read I'd say maybe one of every 20-2500 fallkniven buyers encounter this problem and from everything I've seen fallkniven will do their best to accommodate you even beyond their 2 yr warranty. Since fallkniven makes very popular products, when something like that happens there tends to be a lot "conversation" about said issue good, bad and indifferent. Myself being a fan.of their knives I'm willing to accept those odds that my new toy may have an issue. This scenario can and will happen with all products made by man(hand)
 
I have never chopped with VG10, but I have a number of knives in that steel, and they have never chipped. In addition to my Fallknivens, Spydercos, Moki, and McCustas, have a large Western Deba by Tojiro in VG10. It is a giant, heavy chef's knife. I use it for things I wouldn't want to use my thin bladed knives for in the kitchen, like slicing through lobster tails, etc. I have gone through quite a number of lobster tails, and the blade is still sharp, with no chipping. Unfortunately, my wife discovered the knife in the knife block, and has been using it to butcher pineapple. Her comment was that it is so sharp, she likes to use it. If anyone could destroy a good knife, it is my wife. At least she will (hopefully) leave my other knives alone.
I wouldn't want a machete out of VG10, since one of the 10xx series would be better for that, or 5160. I also wouldn't use my carbon Sabatier knives on lobster tails. The Tojiro in VG10 replaced an Old Hickory in 1095 for slicing the tails. It works better.
 
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