"Choppers" vs. a saw

Aye I spend a good chunk of time above 10,000 feet in Idaho-I usually pack everything, a tomahawk, a machete, a folding axe, a SERE knife and a puuko. Sure it's heavy but I never feel unprepared for any cutting tasks should anything quickly head south.

Your'e better than me mate lol. I do carry extra gear in the winter but in the warmer weather I pare it down to a Mora or my Benchmade Rant along with a folding saw. The rest of weight is water, food, and backpacking gear, which pretty much hits my limit. I just ordered a Victorinox One Handed Trekker and might consider using it as my primary since it has a nice sized locking blade, a nice useable wood saw, and an awl. I sometimes go rock hunting and the tools are heavy enough to kill ya lol. I love my fixed blades but I always carry bear spray and the 3 3/4 inch locking blade of the One Handed Trekker isn't exactly wimpy (if I had to fend against a mountain lion attack). I'd like to get a sheath for it that has a place for a short ceramic sharpening rod as well as a mini magnesium fire starter. If I took a tumble down a hill and lost my pack but had this kit on my belt, I could still make fire, use the saw on it for a shelter, use the awl for drilling, ect.
 
I think you should bring something else for chopping wood than just your small knife. It's good to have a sharp knife available and to also use that one for splitting wood is a good way of wrecking the edge in the long run. A saw for severing logs, a hatchet/chopper for splitting wood and a smaller razor sharp knife for smaller cutting tasks is ideal.
 
I think you should bring something else for chopping wood than just your small knife. It's good to have a sharp knife available and to also use that one for splitting wood is a good way of wrecking the edge in the long run. A saw for severing logs, a hatchet/chopper for splitting wood and a smaller razor sharp knife for smaller cutting tasks is ideal.

Assuming you were referring to me (sorry if you meant this for someone else), the One Handed Trekker has a saw that's longer than the regular Swiss Army knife saws and also has a locking blade almost as long as a Mora Clipper. If it were winter\early spring\late fall here then I would pack at least a full sized folding saw and maybe a smaller axe. I'm not sure what some of the posters' backgrounds are here but I'm sure the ones who've lugged a 60 pound backpack miles into mountainous terrain for several days to weeks can attest to wanting to leave home big knives or large axes:)
 
I pack both a saw and an axe. Usually a knife, too, but lately I've been hiking with just my saw and axe combo to see how I handle without a fixed blade. I do pretty well!

Anyway, I use my axe to down trees and limb em, then my saw to slice em up into chunks. The reason for this is that I find it quicker and easier to fell a tree by just swinging my axe at it a few times, notching a chunk out, then pushing it over, than it is to saw all the way through it (dealing with binds and other annoyances, bleh). Then I like to saw the downed tree into clean cut chunks that are more easily chopped and batoned by my axe or knife.

Could I get by with one and not the other? Certainly. However, if I could only have one tool, it would be the axe. Saws are fantastic, but they're less versatile than an axe, and more prone to failure.
 
Yeah I was at the Bushbash and came to the exact same conclusion as the OP. That little saw was great. Next time I will just bring a folding saw and a 4" thin-profile knife. The kukri we had was also a good chopper and had the advantage of clearing up branches, but for thicker wood the saw was a beast. The hackets were the worst performers. They had thick edges and didn't chop as well, and sometimes even bounced off. We did have a full-sized axe that had the edge thinned down and performed well.

I sharpen my saws at home all the time. You can do it with stones or sandpaper. At least, it works for some brands of saws.
 
i was checking out one of these the other day

http://www.amazon.com/Gerber-46048-Sportsmans-Wood-Coarse/dp/B000Q4C6Y8

it seemed pretty good, but i was wondering if you guys know how long the edge would remain usable for?


We have that same saw. I bought the first one about 10 yeara ago. Loved it so much, I went out and got one for the better halfs daypack, and another one for the kit behind the seat of my pickup. I've been using the first one for years now, and it's still going strong. I make hiking staff's and walking sticks as a hobby to sell at local craft fairs, and I do all my harvetsting with the Gerber/Fiskars sliding blade saw.

Buy two of them. They are not expensive, and you'll have a spare stached.
 
+1 on the Gerber/fiskars sliding saw - it's an impressive little pull saw, and holds it's edge for a long time.
 
The hackets were the worst performers. They had thick edges and didn't chop as well, and sometimes even bounced off. We did have a full-sized axe that had the edge thinned down and performed well.

IMO there's an element of technique to cutting with a hatchet. Also as you say a LOT of hatchets have crappy steep edges. Come to think of it a lot of knives have steep edges too.
 
I like choppers very much,but use a saw to collect lighter(fatwood).It's easier and there is less waste. I think a saw makes good sense for a survival situation,calories burned per work accomplished. I use a gerber slide out saw,but would be glad to hear of other options.
 
I carry a saw as well as a bowie. No reason to choose one over the other.

Like the OP states, the knife is great for limbing and splitting kindling, the saw picks up slack in bigger crosscuts. If you can, bring an extra blade for your saw. Bend or break one once and you'll know why.
 
I'll tell you one other reason I'm not personally a fan of "choppers" - they are inherently more dangerous than a saw. Same with hatchets and axes.

Then again, where I live and hike, chopping down trees, building campfires with downwood , etc. are fairly uncommon tasks. I prefer living small on the land and almost never make a fire. Fires around here are for emergencies as the high desert doesn't have an abundance of wood. When I do make a fire for practice, I keep it small and Indian.

Now, if you live in the Amazon, a machete seems like a proper choice.
 
I agree with you entirely. The right tool for the right task, but there are other considerations that make a big knife attractive, too.

A knife is more versatile than a saw. It's hard to use a saw as a weapon, and damn near impossible to use it to clean fish or carve a spoon out of wood. Can't beat a saw for cutting wood, but it's a one trick pony. Pretty big trick, though!

If I could only carry one tool into the bush, it would be a big chopper, but I would definitely miss having a saw. Fortunately, I'm not so limited, usually.
 
I am the same way, Most of my camping now is with the Jeep or the boat, either way, I am not limited much by size and weight of equipment. If I was back packing, I would carry a 4-5 inch fixed blade or folder and a small saw.
 
I'll tell you one other reason I'm not personally a fan of "choppers" - they are inherently more dangerous than a saw. Same with hatchets and axes.

Then again, where I live and hike, chopping down trees, building campfires with downwood , etc. are fairly uncommon tasks. I prefer living small on the land and almost never make a fire. Fires around here are for emergencies as the high desert doesn't have an abundance of wood. When I do make a fire for practice, I keep it small and Indian.

Now, if you live in the Amazon, a machete seems like a proper choice.

come on up to BC canada, you'll get to build several fires a day on a hike, chop trees down till your tired and in a few weeks all traces of it are gone. :thumbup:

its great fun, a great workout and a great way to build many large shelters and fires.

I do carry a sandvick folding saw, but about all i use it for is letting the kids use it, (they cannot handle knives yet),

im a big fan of carrying a chainsaw, small forest axe and several chopper blades on a hike.
 
A lot of folks seem to think a machete only works in the jungle...but they couldn't be more wrong! Think for a minute--where do a lot of the world's hardest woods come from..? :p

I think I'm one of the big machete fanatics around the boards (and our numbers are growing!) and guess where I'm from? The land of Paul Bunyan! A machete is one of the best tools (in my opinion) for woods work unless you're doing a LOT of dedicated splitting and felling, and it can do both of those reasonably well.

Don't believe me? Get familiar with a good machete and prove me wrong!:cool:
 
That little Kershaw is better known as the Bacho Laplander Pruning Saw, and its the business!
happy0034.gif


For lightness, I usually carry my GB Mini, Mora Clipper and Gerber Sportsman saw, as the Sportsman is lighter than the Bacho and (even heavier) Gerber Gator EAB saw.

I like the versatility that the Mini, Clipper and Sportsman give, at an extremely low weight and bulk penalty.

In truth I could leave the hatchet, saw and knife, but that would be no fun...
 
We have that same saw. I bought the first one about 10 yeara ago. Loved it so much, I went out and got one for the better halfs daypack, and another one for the kit behind the seat of my pickup. I've been using the first one for years now, and it's still going strong. I make hiking staff's and walking sticks as a hobby to sell at local craft fairs, and I do all my harvetsting with the Gerber/Fiskars sliding blade saw.

Buy two of them. They are not expensive, and you'll have a spare stached.

thanks, i think ill pick one up.

i also prefer a machete to an axe. its just preference really as i have alot of time in with a machete and not alot with an axe.
 
A lot of folks seem to think a machete only works in the jungle...but they couldn't be more wrong! Think for a minute--where do a lot of the world's hardest woods come from..? :p

I think I'm one of the big machete fanatics around the boards (and our numbers are growing!) and guess where I'm from? The land of Paul Bunyan! A machete is one of the best tools (in my opinion) for woods work unless you're doing a LOT of dedicated splitting and felling, and it can do both of those reasonably well.

Don't believe me? Get familiar with a good machete and prove me wrong!:cool:

I'm with you. I grew up in South Florida and have spent a good bit of time in the Everglades. I've also spent a lot of time in Central America. I used to harvest sugar cane in my mother's back yard when I was a little kid with a machete, peel it and chew it raw. Machetes have been my friend for as long as I can remember.
 
First let me say that if anyone thinks I'm calling them out, I'm not, I'm just going to post a lot of stuff in one post.

[Stepping On Toes]
If you are going to only carry one tool in the bush -- for camping, bushcrafting, or living -- you're a fool. There, I said it.
[/Stepping On Toes]

Now, people seem to be thinking only of conventional knives as choppers. Personally, long knives, I don't consider very good choppers. I carry them, but I carry them for other purposes. However, I'm going to compare to saw to real choppers -- axes, machetes (the whole family) and kukri.

When you talk about real choppers, rather than just a long knife, you're in different territory. I've posted these before, but for sake of argument, here's my favorite combos, and their choppers:
100_0187.jpg

100_0188.jpg

100_0185.jpg


Be advised, in the bottom pic, the tomahawk is the chopper, not the knife.

With any of the choppers in that pic, I will get through wood faster and with less effort than with one of those pruning saws guys love so much. When you get to wood that's big enough that those won't work well, then you're at the size of wood where your pruning saw won't work either. With choppers like those, you don't just flail away. If you're flailing away, then sure, you're going to think the chopper takes more effort than a saw -- but it's because you're using the chopper in the most inefficient way possible. You use gravity and technique when chopping, not brute strength. Your muscles start the chopper, and guide it to its target. My arm and shoulder hurt a lot more, and I'm breathing harder with a saw than with any of the above choppers.

Safety? Well, I've cut myself almost every time I use a small saw. I've never cut myself with a chopper. If you are talking about safety while swinging away, then if you just keep any body parts out of the way during the swing, AND the follow-through, you won't hit yourself.

The other complaints I see is axes that don't chop well because of obtuse edges. That's not the tool's fault, it's the guy who sharpened its fault -- whether the owner or the guy at the factory. While we are on the subject, does anyone teach axe skills anymore? It was a big deal when I was a Scout to learn axecraft. First thing you had to learn was how to put a proper edge on it, and you did it with a stone, not a belt sander. You also learned to hew with the axe (or hatchet if you prefer), so that you could get fairly straight sides to a cut and whatnot. The poster above is right: a lot of people who used axes a lot will tell you to use a 3/4 or full size axe for bucking and limbing and the hatchet for hewing. When you split with a hatchet, you don't swing it at the end of the round, you place the bit on the side near one end, and slam both into another log to set the bit, and then a quick twist splits the rounds. or, you can place the hatchet on the end of a round, slam both down to set the bit and then pick both up together and bring them down to split. If you need to split something large you use a two-handed axe, or you use wedges and such with the hatchet to split. To make straight sides, you place the hatchet where you want to hew, with one side of the bit square to the piece you are going to keep, and use a baton on the poll to progressively hew away the uneven edge.

Those techniques also work with the hammer poll, or plain poll hawk or kukri, and all but the splitting work with a machete as well. using a baton for detail work takes away that factor of safety concern as well.

Using a baton to fell, split and hew with a long knife works as well, and provides good control for minimal effort and plenty of safety.

The only real downside to the big choppers is that you have to develop a skillset to use them well. But the up side is, that once you have that skillset, you have a more versatile, easier to maintain tool.

Carry what you like, but don't disparage what the other guy uses.
 
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