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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Chris Reeve Green Beret
- Thread starter XIECHENG
- Start date
he was banned , cliff never insult or personal attack anyone else.
lots of guys here has been insulted him , but i never saw him talking back use wrong words.
as Confucius said:" 逝者如斯夫，不舍昼夜" , time like water flew away and never comes back.
cliff got a ban , never come back again , what a nice guy .
keep cool.
dingy
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2009
- Messages
- 44,314
If you want to discuss the ghosts of members past, start your own thread in the appropriate section. In the mean time, stop derailing and cheerleading already.
derailing and cheerleading ? i do not think so .
when OP ask CR GB, i said what i thought on the issue knife ,
then a member talks to the cliff stamp , i give out what i think again.
i never go back to the thread , man, if you think i were a trouble maker.
take it easy ,bye.
dingy
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2012
- Messages
- 4,437
Maybe I can help rerail the thread. I DO NOT understand ths obsession with making large fixed blades with S30V. It is well documented that it does not have the impact resistance as many other steels, primarily from the abundance of large carbides. It can also chip up a storm with a real thin edge, but I keep seeing very thin knives made of it. It makes me think that it is used because it sounds cool, and a lot of customers know nothing of metallurgy.
Don't get me wrong, it is not a bad steel, it is just not a great large fixed blade steel. That is best left to carbon/alloy steel or lower/smaller carbide stainless steels.
Don't get me wrong, it is not a bad steel, it is just not a great large fixed blade steel. That is best left to carbon/alloy steel or lower/smaller carbide stainless steels.
:thumbup:
The ability to sell something well doesn't equate to knowing a thing well.
Dingy brings up a good point. If the knife is designed for hard use, why wouldn't you use a hard use steel? Why would you want to rely on S30V or S35VN when you could make the same knife pattern out of 1050, 5160, 1095, S7 etc. etc.? Those steels are all far tougher. This is proven btw. Charpy impact testing is for reals.
S30V and S35VN are used because they have been marketed well and most people base their purchasing decisions on marketing. "Oh, someone who claims to be a ninja commando is selling their knives for a ton of money and they are using a new expensive steel called S35VN... must be the best steel... here take my money. I need this commando knife next to me when I play Call of Duty."
:thumbup:
Worth another read ...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Chris-Reeve-Green-Beret?p=3538203#post3538203
and
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Chris-Reeve-Green-Beret?p=3538465#post3538465
"The Green Beret knife was chosen from among about 100 other commercially available candidates by 25 members of our Army Special Forces. When the knife was initally submitted no written information was supplied with the knife. A group of 25 current active duty Special Forces Soldiers, hand picked because of their field and combat experience, were involved in making the selection. The "Green Beret" was chosen for having features that were desired more than any other knife they reviewed.
Neither Chris Reeve or myself knew or had any previous contact with this group of men who made the selection and to this day they have never been indentified to us.
The knife was chosen on the strength of it's blade, sharpness and ultimate strength. The knife has to be able to perform a very broad range of tasks, some of which may be unique to a soldier."
I prefer the opinion of those the Green Beret knife was designed for and not the opinions of mall ninjas and "survivalists".
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Chris-Reeve-Green-Beret?p=3538203#post3538203
and
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Chris-Reeve-Green-Beret?p=3538465#post3538465
"The Green Beret knife was chosen from among about 100 other commercially available candidates by 25 members of our Army Special Forces. When the knife was initally submitted no written information was supplied with the knife. A group of 25 current active duty Special Forces Soldiers, hand picked because of their field and combat experience, were involved in making the selection. The "Green Beret" was chosen for having features that were desired more than any other knife they reviewed.
Neither Chris Reeve or myself knew or had any previous contact with this group of men who made the selection and to this day they have never been indentified to us.
The knife was chosen on the strength of it's blade, sharpness and ultimate strength. The knife has to be able to perform a very broad range of tasks, some of which may be unique to a soldier."
I prefer the opinion of those the Green Beret knife was designed for and not the opinions of mall ninjas and "survivalists".
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- Joined
- Feb 9, 2012
- Messages
- 902
I must say, this knife is THE one that will always bring up the greatest controversy. Good or bad. People either love it, or dislike it immensely. I see few knives that people tend to get so worked up about.
I have one that my Dad bought me. It is LITERALLY BNIB in my safe. Never cut a thing. I have it and will always keep it because my Dad bought it for me, I won't use it. I 100% agree with those that have posted about S30V lack of toughness. All CRK one piece, hard use knives, used to be made out of A2. That's a solid, proven hard use steel. I mean seriously, there are SO many steels they could have used: 3V, 52100, A8, even 1095. I am sure CRK has their reasons, I don't claim to know more than him. He surely had his reasons, I simply don't understand them. The numbers don't lie. The CATRA and Charpy tests don't lie. S30V is not a TOUGH steel. It's a good steel that will hold its own with regards to edge retention and stain resistance. Better suited to smaller blades.
I have one that my Dad bought me. It is LITERALLY BNIB in my safe. Never cut a thing. I have it and will always keep it because my Dad bought it for me, I won't use it. I 100% agree with those that have posted about S30V lack of toughness. All CRK one piece, hard use knives, used to be made out of A2. That's a solid, proven hard use steel. I mean seriously, there are SO many steels they could have used: 3V, 52100, A8, even 1095. I am sure CRK has their reasons, I don't claim to know more than him. He surely had his reasons, I simply don't understand them. The numbers don't lie. The CATRA and Charpy tests don't lie. S30V is not a TOUGH steel. It's a good steel that will hold its own with regards to edge retention and stain resistance. Better suited to smaller blades.
t1mpani
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2002
- Messages
- 5,516
Make an ABS-style cutting competition knife out of S30V, compete with it and see how it does.
The choice to make small, thin folders and large, thick fixed blades out of the same steel, when SO many alloys are readily available is about maximizing profits, only having to buy one steel in bulk. I don't say that as an attack, by the way---I carry a Sebenza almost every day, and believe Reeve turns out a very fine product. Crucible steel produces alloys that they themselves say have vastly superior characteristics to S30V (even when that steel was new) in terms of impact toughness, lateral stress, etc. (3V, among others). Does Chris Reeve know a fair amount about steel? Yes. Does Crucible Steel know more? Oh yes. Are they going to publicly call a famous maker out and say to not use one of their products when they get great advertising out of its use? Apparently not and I don't blame them.
Running S30V soft (mid-fifties) in an effort to try and negate its brittle qualities entirely robs it of any edge holding advantage it has over older stainless "survival" knives in 440A, AUS-6, etc which were run harder, while it still keeps a lot of its difficult-to-machine/polish attributes that translate into a greater difficulty in sharpening. I had a CRK Pacific for awhile in S30V, and my 1980s Gerber LMF surpassed it in both edge durability/longevity and also ease of sharpening at precisely the same edge angle. I know the fan boys will cry "LIAR! BLASPHEMY!!" at that but believe me when I tell you that I didn't WANT my $300 fixed blade to get smoked by something I'd picked up in the PX in Fort Belvoir 15 years earlier, it just did.
I think the choice to move to s35VN means an improvement, but they're still running it soft in the fixed blades. 3V run at 58-60 HRC would make vastly superior "hard use" products that would hold an edge longer, absorb even abusive treatment far better, have greater lateral strength and not give up all that much corrosion resistance. So why dont they do it? People tend to believe, I think, that because CRK are expensive, they must have lots of money but the truth is that it's a small outfit and having to have large quantities of two different steels (both expensive) with two notably different HT protocols would cut into their bottom line.
Those who balk at this and will argue that "this guy produces lots of highly sought-after knives and thus knows more about blade steels than you do, damn you to hell t1mpani!" would do well to consider that Randall has produced many, many more knives which are--on a world level--even more highly sought after, and still uses 440B. And I'm not saying Randall doesn't produce good knives; I AM saying that worship abounds in far greater qualities than knowledge among most knife buyers, and indeed among many members of these forums.
The choice to make small, thin folders and large, thick fixed blades out of the same steel, when SO many alloys are readily available is about maximizing profits, only having to buy one steel in bulk. I don't say that as an attack, by the way---I carry a Sebenza almost every day, and believe Reeve turns out a very fine product. Crucible steel produces alloys that they themselves say have vastly superior characteristics to S30V (even when that steel was new) in terms of impact toughness, lateral stress, etc. (3V, among others). Does Chris Reeve know a fair amount about steel? Yes. Does Crucible Steel know more? Oh yes. Are they going to publicly call a famous maker out and say to not use one of their products when they get great advertising out of its use? Apparently not and I don't blame them.
Running S30V soft (mid-fifties) in an effort to try and negate its brittle qualities entirely robs it of any edge holding advantage it has over older stainless "survival" knives in 440A, AUS-6, etc which were run harder, while it still keeps a lot of its difficult-to-machine/polish attributes that translate into a greater difficulty in sharpening. I had a CRK Pacific for awhile in S30V, and my 1980s Gerber LMF surpassed it in both edge durability/longevity and also ease of sharpening at precisely the same edge angle. I know the fan boys will cry "LIAR! BLASPHEMY!!" at that but believe me when I tell you that I didn't WANT my $300 fixed blade to get smoked by something I'd picked up in the PX in Fort Belvoir 15 years earlier, it just did.
I think the choice to move to s35VN means an improvement, but they're still running it soft in the fixed blades. 3V run at 58-60 HRC would make vastly superior "hard use" products that would hold an edge longer, absorb even abusive treatment far better, have greater lateral strength and not give up all that much corrosion resistance. So why dont they do it? People tend to believe, I think, that because CRK are expensive, they must have lots of money but the truth is that it's a small outfit and having to have large quantities of two different steels (both expensive) with two notably different HT protocols would cut into their bottom line.
Those who balk at this and will argue that "this guy produces lots of highly sought-after knives and thus knows more about blade steels than you do, damn you to hell t1mpani!" would do well to consider that Randall has produced many, many more knives which are--on a world level--even more highly sought after, and still uses 440B. And I'm not saying Randall doesn't produce good knives; I AM saying that worship abounds in far greater qualities than knowledge among most knife buyers, and indeed among many members of these forums.
It baffles my mind that there are still people around that question the IQ, knowledge, experience and integrity of Chris and Bill, preferring to take sides with knife bashers with very little (or zero) knife design and manufacturing experience (not to mention actual battlefield knife use experience in the role of the SF operatives who themselves selected the Green Beret knife).
Keep in mind that the knife was designed for use by Green Berets per their requirements. If Bill and Chris were to design knives for grunts or combat pilots I'm sure the knives would look different with different specs to suit the particular roles/needs/wants. I would argue that the multi-tool is used more today with even less need for a supersteel knife. In the past knives of lower spec than the Green Beret performed the call of duty with exemption and were used for a lot of things. Today's soldier imo has a variety of purpose designed/made tools at his disposal that makes the need for a supersteel do everything knife even less.
Keep in mind that the knife was designed for use by Green Berets per their requirements. If Bill and Chris were to design knives for grunts or combat pilots I'm sure the knives would look different with different specs to suit the particular roles/needs/wants. I would argue that the multi-tool is used more today with even less need for a supersteel knife. In the past knives of lower spec than the Green Beret performed the call of duty with exemption and were used for a lot of things. Today's soldier imo has a variety of purpose designed/made tools at his disposal that makes the need for a supersteel do everything knife even less.
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- Joined
- Dec 16, 2012
- Messages
- 4,437
Same can be said for people who take his word as law. The test data doesn't lie, for a large fixed blade made to be beat like it owes you money you have so many better options, from the lowly AUS-8 to Elmax in stainless, and from 1055 to 3V in non stainless.
S30V is great for a pocket knife, and can be just fine for a smaller fixed blade, but it not a steel designed to be used as a large fixed blade.
Ankerson
Knife and Computer Geek
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2002
- Messages
- 21,094
The steel has to match the intended use of the knife model, some steels are better suited for certain tasks than others are.
Any knife can and will break if you stick in a vise and work it enough, even those ABS Master Smith test knives will break if you work them long enough.
That's all I am going to say on this.
Any knife can and will break if you stick in a vise and work it enough, even those ABS Master Smith test knives will break if you work them long enough.
That's all I am going to say on this.
t1mpani
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2002
- Messages
- 5,516
It baffles my mind that you haven't noticed that "SF operators" have apparently selected about twenty different high end knives from different high end makers, or that you think being SF makes somebody knowledgable about knives. I mean, how many SF guys do you think know how to make boots? Or make Kevlar? Or build high end radio equipment? They use all of that one holy hell of a lot more than they use their knives. I fought in both of our recent theaters (hardly unusual) and no I'm not SF--but my knife (happened to be a Swamp Rat) was used for pretty mundane tasks. We fight with guns. Why did I have a Swamp Rat? Because I'm a knife guy. Most military are not, most SF are not.
SF guys are just as poor as any other soldier of the same rank (hazardous duty pay doesn't equate to all that much) and mostly buy stuff they can get at their post exchange. Will they accept items at a highly discounted rate from high-end makers if the high-end maker wants to be able to advertise that SF guys have his knives? Yes. Will they frequently sell those knives at a healthy markup to supplement their meager incomes? Well, take a look around at all of the Hinderers floating around on the secondary market, and you tell me.
Again, worship. I'm not accusing CR of being a crook, I'm accusing him of turning out a nice product while still being a businessman who has to look at his bottom line, which is hardly an insult.
SF guys are just as poor as any other soldier of the same rank (hazardous duty pay doesn't equate to all that much) and mostly buy stuff they can get at their post exchange. Will they accept items at a highly discounted rate from high-end makers if the high-end maker wants to be able to advertise that SF guys have his knives? Yes. Will they frequently sell those knives at a healthy markup to supplement their meager incomes? Well, take a look around at all of the Hinderers floating around on the secondary market, and you tell me.
Again, worship. I'm not accusing CR of being a crook, I'm accusing him of turning out a nice product while still being a businessman who has to look at his bottom line, which is hardly an insult.
t1mpani, if you were to read Bill's comments that I pointed to earlier you will see ...
When knives were submitted for evaluation no specs were submitted. The SF guys (who may not know the difference between S30V and baking soda on a spec sheet as per your argument) chose the Green Beret with zero interaction with the manufacturers. How did this happen? Were those on the evaluation panel drunk, or did they just threw dice to come up with numbers? I prefer to believe they were professional and selected the best product on merit as a professional will do. That SF soldiers may not afford such a knife is a whole different argument/debate. That soldiers sell expensive issued knives for money doesn't mean the knives are not up to the task ... it means they are doing what you accuse Chris of doing ... make money (it says zero of the knife in question). Do you believe the SF selection panel were Reeve worshippers and would therefore choose an inferior product for their brethren to use in combat just because the knives come with CRK stamped on the blades?
When knives were submitted for evaluation no specs were submitted. The SF guys (who may not know the difference between S30V and baking soda on a spec sheet as per your argument) chose the Green Beret with zero interaction with the manufacturers. How did this happen? Were those on the evaluation panel drunk, or did they just threw dice to come up with numbers? I prefer to believe they were professional and selected the best product on merit as a professional will do. That SF soldiers may not afford such a knife is a whole different argument/debate. That soldiers sell expensive issued knives for money doesn't mean the knives are not up to the task ... it means they are doing what you accuse Chris of doing ... make money (it says zero of the knife in question). Do you believe the SF selection panel were Reeve worshippers and would therefore choose an inferior product for their brethren to use in combat just because the knives come with CRK stamped on the blades?
t1mpani
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2002
- Messages
- 5,516
I don't accuse them of anything. Look at Strider, look at BRKT, look at Busse, look at Winkler Knives II, look at Crusader Forge, look at Ek, all of whom tout their miltary/SF specialness, and explain to me when you think the DOD is taking the time to do all of this knife testing. The military chose Corcoran boots too---do you thus believe them to be superior to Danner? 'Cause guess what---based on having walked a LOT of miles in both, they ain't!
I have to do yard work, y'all have fun.
I have to do yard work, y'all have fun.
RamZar
Gold Member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2013
- Messages
- 11,611
Spartan Blades also makes all of its fixed blade knives with S35VN (59-60 HRC). They make their knives with combat in mind.
The Spartan Ares "was specifically engineered for and with the input of U.S. Special Operations Forces and Other Government Agencies".
The Spartan Harsey Difensa was made for "a Canadian special operations force that would serve them well in the north woods of their homeland and on worldwide deployments alike".
The Spartan Ares "was specifically engineered for and with the input of U.S. Special Operations Forces and Other Government Agencies".
The Spartan Harsey Difensa was made for "a Canadian special operations force that would serve them well in the north woods of their homeland and on worldwide deployments alike".
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