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Price is $300 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
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Chris Reeve Green Beret
- Thread starter XIECHENG
- Start date
I like S30V, but I also think it needs a more careful heat treat than most other steels. I just reprofiled a Benchmade Skirmish that I just received in a trade. I took it from a 50 degree (inclusive) profile to a 30 degree profile. The steel took an incredible edge. I remember when S30V first came out and there were many reports of chipping -- which also happened to some of mine -- and I took my old Skirmish out and beat the heck out of the edge on a hardened fence post to see if it, too, was fragile. Nope. Not a chip. Benchmade's heat treat of S30V was excellent.
I think a couple things are important to remember about the Army testing. As a combat vet, I can tell you that the Army does some things very well, and it does other things incredibly poorly. I doubt that the Army has the ability to test combat knives, especially when the knife is not all that useful in modern combat. I never once needed one in Vietnam.
The Army also chose the M16 after a long testing program; and while switching from a battle rifle like the M14 to an assault rifle like the M16 was the right way to go, the M16 had serious design flaws. My M16 jammed after my first shot in battle. After that, I had to keep the cleaning rod fully assembled and jammed between the front site and handle, just to be ready to punch out a jammed shell as quickly as possible. The Army screws up things left and right. The NVA's AK47s were much better than ours, and their RPGs were better than out LAWS. Thank god for artillery, jets and helicopters; otherwise we'd have been out of there much faster. Forty-six years later, I'm still angry as hell at some of the Army's equipment blunders and frequent incompetence. My unit suffered 70 percent casualties, mostly from bad leadership and faulty equipment procurement.
If the selection of the Special Forces knife required stainless steel, then S30V was not a bad choice. I'd rather go with S35VN or, better yet, Elmax, but I doubt those steels were available.
Crusader Forge makes heavy-duty fixed blades out of S30V, using an advanced heat treat. I've beat the heck out of mine and it never chipped or broke a tip. I wouldn't hesitate to choose it as my knife of last resort.
I also had a 3V bowie that I purchased from a custom maker here. It was junk. When I realized how bad the heat treat was, I decided to do some destruction tests on it. When I tested its lateral strength -- by prying sideways with the tip stuck in wood, a test that my main users can all past, including hand forged 1095 -- the 3V blade just folded over into a permanent right-angle bend. But we all know that 3V can be, and usually is, an incredibly tough steel.
I think a couple things are important to remember about the Army testing. As a combat vet, I can tell you that the Army does some things very well, and it does other things incredibly poorly. I doubt that the Army has the ability to test combat knives, especially when the knife is not all that useful in modern combat. I never once needed one in Vietnam.
The Army also chose the M16 after a long testing program; and while switching from a battle rifle like the M14 to an assault rifle like the M16 was the right way to go, the M16 had serious design flaws. My M16 jammed after my first shot in battle. After that, I had to keep the cleaning rod fully assembled and jammed between the front site and handle, just to be ready to punch out a jammed shell as quickly as possible. The Army screws up things left and right. The NVA's AK47s were much better than ours, and their RPGs were better than out LAWS. Thank god for artillery, jets and helicopters; otherwise we'd have been out of there much faster. Forty-six years later, I'm still angry as hell at some of the Army's equipment blunders and frequent incompetence. My unit suffered 70 percent casualties, mostly from bad leadership and faulty equipment procurement.
If the selection of the Special Forces knife required stainless steel, then S30V was not a bad choice. I'd rather go with S35VN or, better yet, Elmax, but I doubt those steels were available.
Crusader Forge makes heavy-duty fixed blades out of S30V, using an advanced heat treat. I've beat the heck out of mine and it never chipped or broke a tip. I wouldn't hesitate to choose it as my knife of last resort.
I also had a 3V bowie that I purchased from a custom maker here. It was junk. When I realized how bad the heat treat was, I decided to do some destruction tests on it. When I tested its lateral strength -- by prying sideways with the tip stuck in wood, a test that my main users can all past, including hand forged 1095 -- the 3V blade just folded over into a permanent right-angle bend. But we all know that 3V can be, and usually is, an incredibly tough steel.
dano
Gold Member
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So, you don't have the experience or expertise to disprove either designer or manufacturer?
S30V and S35VN are not in the same class of toughness as any of the steels I've listed. That is proven.
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Children please.
I like s30v just don't run it too thin.
Note I also like my axe, multi tool and pry bar.
I like s30v just don't run it too thin.
Note I also like my axe, multi tool and pry bar.
dano
Gold Member
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So, you dont...thanks.
t1mpani
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Leaving my own experience aside, my father and uncle were both Vietnam Vets, both combat arms, both in a lot of gunfights and both wounded. Dad was nothing but impressed with his M16. Uncle John thought the M16 was junk. Dad loves the 1911, Uncle John hated it. Both were bigger badasses than me or, I bet, anyone else on this thread. So, two guys with the vaunted "combat experience" that is so coveted on these boards when it comes to touting their toys (unless that experience flys in the face of what they wanted to hear), arriving at precisely opposite conclusions. Hmmm.
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I'd really like to know how many military personnel actually use the CRK Green Beret. All of the military types that I know carry Gerbers, SOGs, and an odd Benchmade; few have even heard of Chris Reeve.
Before anyone says "how many operators do you know, bro?", none. I know plenty of frontline infantry that have served with special operations personnel, none have ever commented on their knife choices. As far as I can tell, the CRK Green Beret is a presentation piece to Q-Course graduates, rather than an issued piece of equipment.
Before anyone says "how many operators do you know, bro?", none. I know plenty of frontline infantry that have served with special operations personnel, none have ever commented on their knife choices. As far as I can tell, the CRK Green Beret is a presentation piece to Q-Course graduates, rather than an issued piece of equipment.
Ankerson
Knife and Computer Geek
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The M16 had it's issues....
The M16A1 solved most of them and was an all around better rifle.
The M16A2 updated it even more and it was much more accurate.
I only used the 1st 3 models so I can't comment on what happened after 1986...
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The A1 was a lighter, simpler rifle. The A2 was a competition rifle the Army (in their infinite wisdom) decided to issue as a service rifle.
Why they decided that a heavier rifle with overly complicated sights (which allowed for accuracy at ranges beyond the effective terminal ballistic range of the round) and a stock that forced you to stand at a bladed stance was better is beyond me.
What combat requirement? It is issued as a presentation piece.
Ankerson
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It was still lighter than the M14..
The M14 made a nice base for a Sniper Rifle though as did the M1 Springfield.
The M1 Carbine was nice and light though.
t1mpani
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Yup, yup and yup.
Actually, though I met a couple back when I was younger and in uniform, the SF guy I really got to know well is a former SEAL I met at Gunsight several years back (both of us laughed about the fact that we were spending our own money to refine our combat skills after we'd left the service and were now unlikely to be in combat) whose words on knives were, "it's a sharpened chunk of steel, if you pay more than $20 you're a f___ing retard." We talked guns instead.
Actually, though I met a couple back when I was younger and in uniform, the SF guy I really got to know well is a former SEAL I met at Gunsight several years back (both of us laughed about the fact that we were spending our own money to refine our combat skills after we'd left the service and were now unlikely to be in combat) whose words on knives were, "it's a sharpened chunk of steel, if you pay more than $20 you're a f___ing retard." We talked guns instead.
Look at what I wrote. I didn't question the pattern, only the steel choice. You don't need to be a master ninja commando to find that S7 is tougher than S30V or S35VN to an extreme degree. You also don't need to be rocket scientist to understand that if you are going to be using a knife with heavy force, ie prying or stabbing that tougher is better.
Is that really difficult to understand? If I'm wrong, let me know and I'll ask a Navy Seal for clarification.
Ankerson
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I wasn't SF, but most of the guys I knew that were SF carried K-BAR's when I was in back in 82-86....
I was a Weapons Specialist and N.B.C. Specialist so I was around them more than I really wanted to be.
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I know 2 servicemen who carry kabars. Mostly due to the fact that they know the name, they are cheap, and they will handle most abuse well.
Ankerson
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Cheap, and they lasted.
That's what I carried also, we didn't make a lot of money back in the 80's...
t1mpani
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Hell, they still last! And truth be told, for the things that most serious, high speed operators use their knives for (opening MREs, cutting 550 cord, playing with and admiring, all in a highly tactical way of course) S30V at 55 HRC will doubtless last too!
I have no combat experience whatsoever and being disabled, I never will (not in the military anyway) but if you mostly used your Swamp Rat for mundane tasks, wouldn't a knife like the Green Beret be acceptable, if as you suggest you do a heck of a lot more with guns than knives? I'm not saying don't make an educated and better "combat ready" choice if you can but, all things being equal, most military/SF guys aren't going to care that much or use their knives for hard combat right?
My brother was a Marine for a few years and saw a lot of combat in both theaters, but his taste in knives did leave something to be desired...
t1mpani
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Nail hit squarely on head, Sir! My argument has always been that they won't fair well against certain other knives in hard use tasks, AND that a testimonial from military personnel is hardly worthy "proof" to the contrary. Some know what they're talking about, many don't, all have opinions.
By the way, my father and uncle both liked the Air Force survival knife by Camillus, carry hardware-store slip joints, and shake their heads in a loving way at my interest in multi-hundred dollar customs.
Ankerson
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Most of the people in the Military are just like anyone else who isn't in the Military, doesn't mean they are knife or gun nuts or even knowledgeable...