Chuck Griffin -- Bad and or Ugly

Gollnick

Gollnick

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Click here to see the original thread from the balisong forum.

This thread has been active in the balisong forum since May. Several folks have asked me to move it to GB&U but I've resisted since I really was hopefull that Mr. Griffin could resolve these problems and avoid the bad publicity in a much more well-read forum.

I really hate to see this, I really do. But, I am now aware of several folks who are owed money or knives by Mr. Griffin and who are now unable to communicate with him. He has ignored phone calls and registered letters which he signed for himself.

While I do not personally have an issue with him, I have been unable to reach him by telephone to discuss these other issues.

I can understand if a maker is having some problems. We all have problems from time to time. But you've got to at least keep in touch with your paying clients.

So far, Mr. Griffin has not only ignored his customers, but has refrained from giving any explaination on bladeforum. Were it not for the fact that he signed for at least one registered letter, I'd accuse him of disappearing. He has not, apparently, disappeared. He is, apparently, alive and well enough to sign his name in Oklahoma City. But he has also, apparently, turned his back on clients who have already paid him money.

So, it is with a heavy heart that I have to bump this thread to GB&U for wider exposure. That means that 10,000+ knife enthusiasts world-wide will see this. That's not what I'd like to have happen to a knife maker. But, we've given him every chance.

Chuck Griffin
P.O. Box 721146
Oklahoma City, OK.
73172-1146
405-947-5800

Sorry.
 
This may sound hopelessly naive, but I have gotten the distinct impression that when ordering custom knives that one does not pay until the knife is complete. Of course, if there are special components that are real pricey, then some payment in advance seems only fair.

I know I got part of that idea from Ed Fowler's book. But, I already had that impression before I read the book. How many custom makers are asking for full payment in advance for their knives? How many routinely ask for a percentage in advance? After all the hullaballoo about Allen Blade, I thought I wouldn't be seeing any of this crap again.

If you all have anything from this maker in the form of snail mail, or can prove you sent him money by that vehicle, I believe you should start talking to postal inspectors about fraud by mail.

I didn't even check yet. Does this character have a website?
 
I've had dealings with Chuck, that came to fruitation, and I was pleased with the outcome. I know of one person that got his knife from Chuck and was evidently happy with it. It, too, came after an extended wait but it did come. Please Chuck, if you take time to stop by the forums, have the fortitude to step in and let your PAID-IN-FULL customers know what is going on! The longer this matter goes, the harder it's going to be to clear all this, and your good name, up. There's way too many good people in the knife world that will remember this and never let it go; it will spell nothing but disaster for any further knife making you might want to do with anyone associated with this forum, or any others for that matter. Do what's right and take care of your commitments. We'll all be waiting to see what happens........Dudley
 
Originally posted by Bugs3x
This may sound hopelessly naive, but I have gotten the distinct impression that when ordering custom knives that one does not pay until the knife is complete. Of course, if there are special components that are real pricey, then some payment in advance seems only fair.
Click to expand...

I know that for me, sometimes a long lead time allows me to put a little towards an expensive knife every once in a while, and eventually a pricey custom just appears, with no balance due. I've had mostly good luck doing this (I say mostly not because I've been burned, but, well, let's just say nobody's ever out and out burned me), because I try to only buy knives from makers I know personally or by very strong recommendation.

Sure there's risk to it, but unless you're dealing with a high holy prick who would screw their friends and basically blacklist themself, it usually works out.
 
The knife I ordered was a marvelous piece... and he asked for 75% up front. I've seen his work and had never heard a bad word about him. The balisong in question ran $750 and was as follows:

4.5", high polished, ATS-34, hollow ground, traditional bowie blade with extended, sharpend swedge and custom file work on the spine. The handles were to be true latchless, mirror polished stainless steel with real mother of pearl inserts (backed by micarta for strength).

Here is my account of everything that has happend:

August 16th, 2000 Chuck Griffin sent me an email. It was an agreement on the knife he was making. His price was $750 for the knife in question. He required a 75%, non-refundable downpayment to get started on the knife. I sent him the money.

Since then we discussed doing re-constructed MOP instead (he said doing the real stuff would cost me too much). He recieved a sample and told me it was crap. He finally decided he'd do it with the real stuff for the same price as the originally-agreed-upon skeletonized handles.

Also since then he has disappeared for months on end. He's said he has had family problems, his computer network crashed, he had eye surgery to remove a metal shard, he was away on business, the blade came back from the tempering place warped and had to remake a new blade, he noticed one of the MOP inserts had a small chip in it and had to order a new one, etc, etc. A few of the times he let me know before hand that my knife was going to take longer. But other times months went by with no contact at all.

Fast forward to June 22nd, 2001. Chuck Griffin sends me an email saying my knife is done. He said as soon as he recieved the final payment he would send me my knife. I was kind of hurt -- I had already paid out almost $600 and waited one year for this knife and he would not send it ASAP when it was finished. Also, he said he lost all the pictures of the knife in his computer crash and that his friend had borrowed his digital camera.

Maybe I should have known better but around this time someone had just recieved their Chuck Griffin custom balisong. I called Chuck and talked with him for some time and everything sounded in order. I was excited that I would finally get my knife and sent out a check right away.

Again, Chuck was not replying in a reasonable manner. I was very anxious but he didn't cash my check. I wondered what was going on. July 2nd he emailed saying he did not recieve the check. I sent another one, this time with delivery confirmation. July 19th he says he got the check and would send the knife as soon as it clears. The check, of course, clears a few days later. July 25th I get another email saying that he is about to send out my knife and I should have it by July 30th.

To this day, about a month and a half after I should have gotten my knife, I have not recieved anything. I have sent many emails to Chuck and called him numerous times. His phone is never answered. I have left messages on his answering machine. I have recieved absolutely no response from Chuck Griffin since July 25th.

I have waited and waited. I have paid in full. I want my knife or my money back. I wish no ill towards Chuck Griffin and I hope he is ok. But my patience has worn out and, even though by all accounts mister Griffin seems like a very nice guy, I have the sinking feeling I've been ripped off. :mad: :barf:

All I have is a name, an unlisted phone number, and an address (PO box). I sent my checks through US mail so there should be proof of when I sent the final payment. I will speak with the post office and see what they can do. Is there any other action I should take? I wish I could go knock on his door!

:(
 
I still hope that my knife will come to me eventually, as it does appear that Mr. Griffith is in fact a knife maker and has delivered one or more knives to other people in the not too distant past.

...The problem is, he emailed me and told me my knife was finished. I sent him final payment, and now he seems to be too busy to send me my knife. The obvious conclusion is that he was not truthful about the knife being completed. I hope it is at least being made, and that three or four of us have not simply been defrauded.

I will give him a couple more weeks, then will be contacting the local constabulary for advice on how to procede.
 
Originally posted by Steve Harvey
...The problem is, he emailed me and told me my knife was finished. I sent him final payment, and now he seems to be too busy to send me my knife. The obvious conclusion is that he was not truthful about the knife being completed. I hope it is at least being made, and that three or four of us have not simply been defrauded.
Click to expand...
I agree. While it was not fun, I waited a year under the premise that something great was being created. It was longer than originally agreed upon but if thats what it took, then thats what was necessary. But now that I am told my knife is done and now that I have paid in full, I don't feel any more waiting is necessary and I see no excuse for this. :(:(:(
 
Griffin, Bad or Ugly? Gollnick, it's allready bad but now it's looking ugly.
Nate I'm sorry you are going through this. It's not right.
What the hell is Mr. Griffin thinking?:confused:
 
I have never paid a dime up front for custom. When Mr. Bill Bagwell was four days late shipping the Belle out to me ha called me daily to update me on what was going on, including the error he made and his steps to fixing it.

Say what you will about Bagwell. He is a man of integrity. This guy sounds like a schlub and also has the air of a man hurting so bad for money he is willing to screw himslef long term for it.

Here is your op to refute me and defend yourself Mr. Maker. I know all custom types have their periods of bad money or personal stuff. 99% of them are straight arrows and go out of their way to prove it. Are you not one of these 99?

Parker
 
I am also deeply saddened whenever I hear a bad word said about Mr. Griffith, likewise I feel a heavy heart taht it has come down to this.. however, despite what I may think - facts are facts and these facts seem very cold and solid.

I woudl just like to say that I have dealt with Mr. Griffith in the past buying and selling Balisongs (not of his design, but of his collection and mine) and they were worth a substancial amount of money.. and in retrospect they were a lot to me back then because I was a newbie who was reluctant to buy Balisongs and was a jobless college kid.

I have also spent many fun and relaxing hours talking and e chatting with Mr. Griffith. He is definitely a special character and I thought he was a nice if not "chiseled" guy, personality wise. I guess to me I considered him a friend who I learned a lot from and owe a lot to my balisong and knife knowledge today...

However despite my dealings with him the facts Mr. Nate and Mr. Steve have expressed cannot be denied.

Talking to some close friends we have just come up with some assumptions. We KNOW that ChuckG can make the balisongs he promised - as he has posted pics of samples on his website, and one of my friends received a semi custom rehandle of one of his balisongs.

I also emailed him periodically as he had also promised to make me a custom balisong but refused to take any deposit from me eventhough I offered... was he already scheming and didnt want to get me involved?? I dont knwo and I am not accusing him of having pre meditated intent.

In my discussions with him he told me about family problems (whic I will not post here) and medical problems (a steel shard in his eye).. which seemed consistent with the other forumites I happened to talk to.

So our guess is that he had good intentions in the beginning really COULD make a quality product. He probably went awry when he knew he couldn't keep up but still took orders... somewhere down the road he got into medical and family problems but thought if he worked hard enough he woudl be able to catch up.. more and more bad karma piled on and he just got overwhelmed, got depressed and gave up and is now in hiding.

all in all that is just speculation.. I have tried to email ChuckG, not at the request of the customers who feel cheated but on my own accord cause I am SINCERELY concerned about his safety and maybe his current health. Despite my reassurance to him that I just wanted to knwo what was giong on I received no reply.

I am sorry again it ha to come down to this...

Nate, Steve, if you look thru the forums there are a LOT fo threads which outline the precise means and procedures to file a claim for mail fraud.. if people dont post on this thread it dont mean they dotn care.. it is just that the issue has been discussed before..

I think an intricate saga already unfolded with the blademan007 thread?? (the bud nealy knife)..
 
wow - sounds like something my crack head bro in law would pull....sorry to you guys who got ripped off - it sucks i tell you.....best of luck in getting some kind of satisfaction in the matter


sifu
 
If you EVER do get satisfaction let me know how you pulled it off. There is one person who lurks right here on this and a few other forums that sold me my very very first absolute gorgeous custom. Send a cashiers check for $2750.00 and got the knife in three days. Opened the package and found what looked beautiful. Happy as hell UNTIL an expert showed me the real deal and this POS. I have ever seen. Forget Civil Court. forget Criminal Court (Theft by deception, a Class A felony here, but my State prosecutors would NOT extradite for this type of offense. Looks like the real thing. He still sells on E-bay, changed his name now three times and even says he distributes Fine knives. But if you ever figure out how to screw back, let me know!!!!!!
 
Wolfman, If you do not want to give the name this person uses on this forum, How about telling us what his selling name on EBAY is?

Dan
 
We are all interested. All of us who buy or sell knives would love to know who the bad guys are. Nobody likes getting ripped off.
Wolfmann, Who is the guy on EBAY that you had trouble with?
Dan
 
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