Classified Rant, I can't hold back any longer...

It's the buyers job to dig through the bad pictures, horrid descriptions and figure things out....

There is a 'standard' on this forum, either you do the above, or you buy from a member you know and/or trust.

There is really no way to effectively police the exchange, we're all going to have to put on our big boy pants and buy the right way. More questions, more pictures, until you are satisfied....
 
It's the buyers job to dig through the bad pictures, horrid descriptions and figure things out....

There is a 'standard' on this forum, either you do the above, or you buy from a member you know and/or trust.

There is really no way to effectively police the exchange, we're all going to have to put on our big boy pants and buy the right way. More questions, more pictures, until you are satisfied....

Damn right! [emoji106]
 
They best is when they described the knife as LNIB with a percentage... "The knife is in 87% condition."

And I'm over here like:

Conversion-meme.jpg
That is hilarious. My favorite is:
This knife is MINT, NIB....
Carried lightly and used lightly, but not by me. I am the 3rd owner, it "looks" sharp and has an aftermarket scale, anodizing, standoffs, and has been sharpened to , 15 degree edge on the (insert your favorite sharpening gadget), so now it cuts like a laser.
 
That is hilarious. My favorite is:
This knife is MINT, NIB....
Carried lightly and used lightly, but not by me. I am the 3rd owner, it "looks" sharp and has an aftermarket scale, anodizing, standoffs, and has been sharpened to , 15 degree edge on the (insert your favorite sharpening gadget), so now it cuts like a laser.

images.jpg
 
I take it the op got a lemon .if youre the sucker who believes a guy you dont no hundreds of miles away and dont do you homework and take there word for it.then you my friend are the sucker.trying to get people to follow standards on a internet forum is quit impossible imop.should people do this no ,but they will and its up to you to be careful
 
I've received a lot of knives "LNIB" that were in worse condition than ones I received described "used". A knife can, literally, be Like New In Box, but have mechanical or cosmetic problems from the factory.

In fact, a knife can, literally, be mint in box, but likewise have problems in manufacture that don't have to do with how 'new' or 'mint' the knife is.

It's really easy to avoid this sort of stuff by giving a detailed overview of a knife's condition. Not to toot my own horn but here's a template I use all the time to describe the knives I list for sale.

-----------------

Model
When was it produced if there is no date immediately apparent?
Is this a limited run, and if so what is its serial number?
Be specific about 'Limited edition', this can mean any of several things and without specific information it is hard to accurately determine the facts about the knife.


Blade
If the knife was used, please say what it was used for.
What is the blade steel?
Have there been known issues with this particular steel in this particular knife or series of knives? If so, have you ascertained, one way or another, that this issue is not present in the knife you are selling?
Are the grinds and bevels completely even? If not, provide a photo showing the extent of the unevenness.
Is the edge intact? Either way, provide a photo.
Has it been sharpened before? If so, with a wheel, with stones or with a Sharpmaker/Wicked Edge/Apex Pro, etc.
Is there wear on the blade and where is it? Provide a photo.
Is the tip intact? Either way, provide a photo.
Are there any visible signs of corrosion or discoloration on the blade or the edge? Provide a photo if there is any.


Lock
For front-opening knives:
Describe how much blade play there is between the chassis and the blade.
Mention any slowness of firing from any angle.
Describe if there is any stickiness to the button or actuation switch.
Mention if there is any play or inconsistency in the button or actuation switch when firing. This varies from model to model and some is normal.

For D/A automatics:
Please disclose how strong the blade fires and whether it locks 100% of the time.
Mention any lockup difference between manual deployment and automatic deployment.
Disclose if the knife's automatic function has been fired while the knife is already in the open position after being manually deployed. This can severely weaken the leaf springs in some models.

Framelocks/linerlocks:
Describe how sticky the lock is. Some buyers don't mind stickiness but some do.
Accurately describe the strength of the detent.
Mention if the lock can be pushed further across the blade tang.
Describe the amount of play and whether there is any lock rock.
Provide photos of the lockup with the angle dead on so that an accurate picture of how far the lock has traveled can be obtained.
If there is a significant difference in lockup with a quick deployment versus a slower one, provide pictures showing this difference.

Arc locks/Axis locks/etc:
Disclose the strength of the spring keeping the lock in the open position.
Pushbutton automatic knives:
Disclose whether the blade has play in the closed position. This is a problem for some button-locked knives but not for others.
Describe the strength of the spring that resists when the button is pressed.
Describe the strength of the coil spring firing the blade.
Disclose any wear on the stop pin as this is evidence of excess wear that may result in blade play after more actuations.


Scales/Chassis/Frame
Document all wear, scratches, etc. no matter how slight. Provide photos.
Are all the screws seated properly and flush?
Are any of the screw heads stripped?
Are there any inconsistencies from the factory in terms of fitment? Provide photos.
Is the backspacer contacting the blade?
Is the blade stop properly contacting its respective pin/cutout?


Misc.
Is the pocket clip tension good?
Are the screws on the pocket clip loose or stripped?
Disclose missing or aftermarket parts and provide photos.
Does the blade actuate positively?
Describe the speed and smoothness of the deployment.
Does the knife come with original packaging and paperwork?


----------------------

It seems like a lot, but it's just a ten minute job, max, and removes almost all uncertainty in your listing so that people interested in your knife will know what they are getting. This takes away the confusion from nebulous terms like "LNIB" and "used" that don't actually say anything about the knife.

Here's a sample description made from this template:

Model:
Terzuola ATCF, made 1988. Three-screw clip, no blade steel marking. Full Ti scales with G10 backspacer.

Blade:
ATS-34, satin finish drop point, completely even bevels and grinds. Never sharpened and never used. Intact edge and tip as shown in photo. No wear on the blade, corrosion or discoloration.

Lock:
No lock stick, perfectly solid with no further movement across the blade tang. No play or lock rock. Detent is strong on both opening and closing and no significant difference in lockup with a flick or a slow opening.

Scales:
No wear or scratches except for one small mark as shown in photo. All screws are perfectly flush with the scales and none of the screw heads are stripped. No backspacer or blade stop issues.

Misc:
Pocket clip tension excellent as are pocket clip screws. Smooth and quick deployment. No box or paperwork.
 
I've received a lot of knives "LNIB" that were in worse condition than ones I received described "used". A knife can, literally, be Like New In Box, but have mechanical or cosmetic problems from the factory.

In fact, a knife can, literally, be mint in box, but likewise have problems in manufacture that don't have to do with how 'new' or 'mint' the knife is.

It's easy to do a detailed overview of a knife's condition. Not to toot my own horn but here's a template I use all the time to describe the knives I list for sale.

-----------------

Model
When was it produced if there is no date immediately apparent?
Is this a limited run, and if so what is its serial number?
Be specific about 'Limited edition', this can mean any of several things and without specific information it is hard to accurately determine the facts about the knife.


Blade
If the knife was used, please say what it was used for.
What is the blade steel?
Have there been known issues with this particular steel in this particular knife or series of knives? If so, have you ascertained, one way or another, that this issue is not present in the knife you are selling?
Are the grinds and bevels completely even? If not, provide a photo showing the extent of the unevenness.
Is the edge intact? Either way, provide a photo.
Has it been sharpened before? If so, with a wheel, with stones or with a Sharpmaker/Wicked Edge/Apex Pro, etc.
Is there wear on the blade and where is it? Provide a photo.
Is the tip intact? Either way, provide a photo.
Are there any visible signs of corrosion or discoloration on the blade or the edge? Provide a photo if there is any.


Lock
For front-opening knives:
Describe how much blade play there is between the chassis and the blade.
Mention any slowness of firing from any angle.
Describe if there is any stickiness to the button or actuation switch.
Mention if there is any play or inconsistency in the button or actuation switch when firing. This varies from model to model and some is normal.

For D/A automatics:
Please disclose how strong the blade fires and whether it locks 100% of the time.
Mention any lockup difference between manual deployment and automatic deployment.
Disclose if the knife's automatic function has been fired while the knife is already in the open position after being manually deployed. This can severely weaken the leaf springs in some models.

Framelocks/linerlocks:
Describe how sticky the lock is. Some buyers don't mind stickiness but some do.
Accurately describe the strength of the detent.
Mention if the lock can be pushed further across the blade tang.
Describe the amount of play and whether there is any lock rock.
Provide photos of the lockup with the angle dead on so that an accurate picture of how far the lock has traveled can be obtained.
If there is a significant difference in lockup with a quick deployment versus a slower one, provide pictures showing this difference.

Arc locks/Axis locks/etc:
Disclose the strength of the spring keeping the lock in the open position.
Pushbutton automatic knives:
Disclose whether the blade has play in the closed position. This is a problem for some button-locked knives but not for others.
Describe the strength of the spring that resists when the button is pressed.
Describe the strength of the coil spring firing the blade.
Disclose any wear on the stop pin as this is evidence of excess wear that may result in blade play after more actuations.


Scales/Chassis/Frame
Document all wear, scratches, etc. no matter how slight. Provide photos.
Are all the screws seated properly and flush?
Are any of the screw heads stripped?
Are there any inconsistencies from the factory in terms of fitment? Provide photos.
Is the backspacer contacting the blade?
Is the blade stop properly contacting its respective pin/cutout?


Misc.
Is the pocket clip tension good?
Are the screws on the pocket clip loose or stripped?
Disclose missing or aftermarket parts and provide photos.
Does the blade actuate positively?
Describe the speed and smoothness of the deployment.
Does the knife come with original packaging and paperwork?


----------------------

It seems like a lot, but it's just a ten minute job, and removes almost all uncertainty in your listing so that people interested in your knife will know what they are getting. This takes away the confusion from nebulous terms like "LNIB" and "used" that don't actually say anything about the knife.

Here's a sample description made from this template:

Model:
Terzuola ATCF, made 1988. Three-screw clip, no blade steel marking. Full Ti scales with G10 backspacer.

Blade:
ATS-34, satin finish drop point, completely even bevels and grinds. Never sharpened and never used. Intact edge and tip as shown in photo. No wear on the blade, corrosion or discoloration.

Lock:
No lock stick, perfectly solid with no further movement across the blade tang. No play or lock rock. Detent is strong on both opening and closing and no significant difference in lockup with a flick or a slow opening.

Scales:
No wear or scratches except for one small mark as shown in photo. All screws are perfectly flush with the scales and none of the screw heads are stripped. No backspacer or blade stop issues.

Misc:
Pocket clip tension excellent as are pocket clip screws. Smooth and quick deployment. No box or paperwork.

That's all? Holy smokes, so basically right a novel and upload 127 pics and your gtg! Come on people there tools meant to be USED! Do your homework, know what your buying, then commit.
If you can't seem to figure that out than buy new.
 
That's all? Holy smokes, so basically right a novel and upload 127 pics and your gtg! Come on people there tools meant to be USED! Do your homework, know what your buying, then commit.

Did you even read it? It takes ten minutes or less to write down the information and take the pictures. In my view it sure beats having to go through the trouble of refunding someone for a knife they weren't pleased with. A few extra minutes now saves time and heartache on both ends down the road.
 
That's all? Holy smokes, so basically right a novel and upload 127 pics and your gtg! Come on people there tools meant to be USED! Do your homework, know what your buying, then commit.
If you can't seem to figure that out than buy new.

I buy knives to use. But I am given to understand that there are these strange folks called "collectors" who buy knives for reasons other than use.

I believe a buyer has a duty of care. Some of the stories here are brought to us by buyers who were absolutely reckless and suffered the consequences. It's like "What WAS he thinking?"

But I also believe a seller has a duty to honestly describe the goods being sold. Some things cannot be seen - like the action on a slip joint. We have to rely on the description.

All standards of description do is give a set meaning to words. Enforcement is a whole other matter.
 
Thomas Linton, I agree with your entire post. I do my best to describe each and every detail without getting excessive.
 
Did you even read it? It takes ten minutes or less to write down the information and take the pictures. In my view it sure beats having to go through the trouble of refunding someone for a knife they weren't pleased with. A few extra minutes now saves time and heartache on both ends down the road.

Not entirely, I gave up after I finished my beer to grab another. I've had a few hundred deals with only ONE return from an incompetent member with buyers remorse who had to payback his PayPal loan before his wife found out!
All that and I've never been asked about the tension on my pocket clip! [emoji57]
Just so you know I'm not disagreeing with your methods, hell Id buy from you in a heartbeat! I'm just saying I'm not getting out my micrometer and measuring grinds to sell a knife. Having said that I'm always happy to answer any question one would ask!
 
LNIB, except that the photo shows the pocket clip moved, and marks in the G10 where the pocket clip used to be. And were any of the screws stripped in the process? Why buy a knife that you never intend to carry and move the pocket clip?
 
Communication is the key!!!

Do not jump and scream "I'll take it", ask the questions first, buy when convinced it's what you want.

The secondary market is afterall, the secondary market..................................and subject to poetic license
 
Last edited:
MINT- exactly as it came off the production line, not even taken out of the plastic wrap. Mint shouldn't even have fingerprints on it.
 
Well jeez, I think I'm going to have to adjust my selling methods. A lot of you guys bring up good points I didn't think about before when I made my listings.

Anyway, good rant thread.
 
Well jeez, I think I'm going to have to adjust my selling methods. A lot of you guys bring up good points I didn't think about before when I made my listings.

Anyway, good rant thread.

The section selected above is the problem with many sales threads.
Specifically multiples sales threads in the same forum on the same day and who can forget the chatty jackwagons that think they are funny and decide to turn a sales thread into a testing ground to their own wittiness.
 
TOO an extreme is a bit much..
Build your reputation..
Be clear.
Allow all kinds of questions.
Provide an additional pictures
Have open communication
Ask for references.
Sorry..I enjoy my time here..
LOVE it, helps me unwind.
BUT I will not spend a half hour
describing a knife.
I will do my best..
I will offer folks my phone number if needed..
MY reputation and how I carry myself will and has
spoken in volumes about my integrity and character.
Build your reputation by having upfront sales/trades.
As one builds that..People will not need a full deluge of descriptions.
BUT as I have stated--Do your homework.. Call people out on their bullshit..
And stick "With The WINNERS"
Everyone sees this topic different..Thats kewl.. My stance..IS THAT my stance..
Have fun..Enjoy our community..Be apart of this great FAMILY..
2% of the inept folks..simply doesnt make the other 98% of us..Not trustworthy..
Be safe---

==Keith==
 
The section selected above is the problem with many sales threads.
Specifically multiples sales threads in the same forum on the same day and who can forget the chatty jackwagons that think they are funny and decide to turn a sales thread into a testing ground to their own wittiness.

My two recent threads were posted more than 24 hours apart. As far as the rest, I'll do better with brevity.
 
I'm introducing a new one for you guys, "foxing". That's one used in book sales. The G10 has light foxing.
 
My two recent threads were posted more than 24 hours apart. As far as the rest, I'll do better with brevity.

You're fine, It's just sometimes people think it's funny to question the price a person sets publicly. They proceed to post a link to Amazon where the item is like $2 cheaper or whatever. It's stuff like that, there is no need for it.
 
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