Clients and Makers and Deposits, Oh My!

[Rick Marchand]

Nice post, Coop.

As you can probably tell, I am a delicate, beautiful butterfly and need space to open my wings and flutter around...

I left a well-paying career, where EVERY job was late before we even took it on. Non stop, under the gun, rush. It literally drove me to a nervous breakdown. I simply cannot work like that. I sometimes envy those who can. Getting paid up front is a motivator for You, Jim. I can't help but see it as a leash. I will bust my back and jump through hoops to impress folks and make them happy but only if I have no strings to hold me down. Perhaps I AM flawed... I like to think I'm not... but I suppose stupid people, rarely realize they are stupid, so......

 

[Lorien]

Inasmuch as we would like influence in selecting a maker's future work, this allows for 'commissions'.

Commissions carry the probability of deposits.

Many knifemakers are notorious bad business persons (not all, but enough to generalize). They are Cowboys and Artists. Business acumen (learned) is not their strongpoint.

Simple human nature will always dictate that past money spent has no motivation for future labor. Sigh.

One answer is to simply NOT take orders. Build and sell as they come. You need to have a strong base to ensure this always happens, yet if you can't move current work:

A. The style or build is not in demand
B. It's priced too high.

Mike Snody opened up my eyes when he declared 15 years ago that he would never make custom orders. For this reason and more: Stagnant creativity was another.

Even in my relative small ticket business, I DISLIKE when a client pays in advance, but it's necessary. It's how I do ALL my Show work, and I HUSTLE to get them finished so I can breathe with now-earned funds. I don't like to run from behind.

That's me. Other honest knife makers are also saying "I fulfill, what's the problem?"

One bad apple....

Good thread.

hmmm...

 

[AVigil]

I guess the key is a man needs to know his limitations and be honest with themselves and then act accordingly.

 

[Rick Marchand]

Exactly, Adam. If more makers took responsibility for themselves and their products, there would be a lot less roasting in the feedback threads.

 

[Don Hanson III]

Treat people bad, steal their money & karma will bite you in the ass.

 

[Don Hanson III]

As you can probably tell, I am a delicate, beautiful butterfly and need space to open my wings and flutter around...

I can relate Rick!

 

[tom mayo]

No Deposits, No Delivery Dates. But No Orders is even better. :ccol:

The simpler you can keep it, the better your life is!!!

 

[Don Hanson III]

The simpler you can keep it, the better your life is!!!

Tue True Tom.

 

[JParanee]

I have seen these threads time and time again

I don’t do deposits

Don’t get me wrong if I’m asking for some very expensive materials than I would have no issue but I don’t usually request crazy materials

Generally the custom makers wether it be knife, bow or gun don’t ask for deposits that I work with

The practice of taking deposits has gotten more makers in trouble than any other part of the whole equation

The knife world is plaqued by makers that do not deliver on orders

When there is a deposit envioved it becomes much more 0f an issue

It borders on theft

My advice is unless special materials are involved don’t ask or give a deposit

In my line of work I’m the last guy to get payed in the room

I take on work expend money and massive time with the hope of realizing a profit in the end

There is no guarantee of payment. When my contract ends if I have not performed I get nothing. I can never recoup my time or money spent back. Such is the nature of the business ....so I don’t feel sorry for a maker that builds a knife and than something falls through. It should not happen but if it does he as in the maker still can recoup his time and materials.

So no excuse for deposits in my book

 

[AVigil]

Generally the custom makers wether it be knife, bow or gun don’t ask for deposits that I work with

That is the benefit of working with people you know, they know you are going to come through for them.

I have no problem with paying a small deposit with a maker who I am a total stranger to.

It would drive me crazy to order a knife, pay no deposit and have the maker string me along for years hoping one day he gets to my knife, simply because my knife is not a priority due to him having no obligation to me.
Luckily I am very careful who I order from and pay deposits to.

 

[ballknives]

I do not take deposits and never have. I admit I am not crazy about taking orders but will within reason. I like to do what I want to build and many are one ofs. I don't like pressure.LOL

 

[Matthew Gregory]

Nonsense. That’s the biggest part of the problem, and the issues with makers in this thread exemplifies it. No one in this thread that has gotten shafted by a maker is naming names, and it’s not because they’re protecting people they don’t know. In fact, I’ll bet it’s more likely that shit goes sideways on a deal with a ‘friend’ that got in a bad way than a stranger taking a deposit that just up and disappeared.

That is the benefit of working with people you know, they know you are going to come through for them.

 

[AVigil]

Nonsense. That’s the biggest part of the problem, and the issues with makers in this thread exemplifies it. No one in this thread that has gotten shafted by a maker is naming names, and it’s not because they’re protecting people they don’t know. In fact, I’ll bet it’s more likely that shit goes sideways on a deal with a ‘friend’ that got in a bad way than a stranger taking a deposit that just up and disappeared.

Some people need a better friends then. A $50 deposit is worth having them go away if they are so shady.

 

[Matthew Gregory]

Both statements may very well be true. It’s not unusual for someone to continue to support a friend, even if that friend wasn’t exactly a good friend - at least, in this context. As I said before, no one here wants to pile rocks into a sinking ship.

Some people need a better friends then. A $50 deposit is worth having them go away if they are so shady.

 

[PaulDiStefano]

I have not been in the knife world for very long but I truly don't understand the not naming names of the makers who are screwing people over part. Doesn't it add to the problem, almost like a cop letting someone go for blowing a red light. They're just going to do it again because they got off free with no repercussions. I understand if they are your friend and you don't want to ruin they're business but wouldn't constantly putting these makers on blast over the internet or wherever else help to clean up this industry. If some makers were to get outted and have they're reputations destroyed, wouldn't the rest of the makers do everything they could to not end up in the same boat.
I personally would never want to ruin anyone's business or reputation but when some people steal hundreds of dollars from people I think they're asking for it.

 

[Rick Marchand]

Okay.....

You guys have been carrying on long enough. While I appreciate all the input makers and buyers have provided, you have completely failed to grasp the true purpose of this thread.

The blade on page one is no longer available.



Rick

 

[RayseM]

Okay.....
You guys have been carrying on long enough. While I appreciate all the input makers and buyers have provided, you have completely failed to grasp the true purpose of this thread.
The blade on page one is available. Rick

Yes - you have NO SHAME - So I ask - why not have a Bush Cleaver GAW - random pick of post number for all the kind folks who provided "input" to your query in this 4 page thread? You'd get closure and make someone (poster # 24 & 77 ) very happy.

Your turn

AT ray

 

[Rick Marchand]

Your turn

What a great idea!... and #77 is my favorite number in the alphabet.

But, as luck would have it...

 

[Dawkind]

It would drive me crazy to order a knife, pay no deposit and have the maker string me along for years hoping one day he gets to my knife, simply because my knife is not a priority due to him having no obligation to me.

Ha! I hear ya but I’d rather be shined than to lose my money or, like this last debacle, receive a total POS from a very well known Maker and someone I thought was a friend.

I’m still waiting on knives promised 35 years ago, again, from very well known Makers.

 

[Bgbdwolf]

I recently finalized a terrible experience (not the way my Brother Sam means it either) from a very well known Maker. I reluctantly entered into an agreement to get in on a run of special knives at the tune of $200....that was 2 1/2 years ago....I think y'all know where this is going.

Being the Wonderful Person I am... ...I listened as, what I considered a friend, he tells me of his financial woes and needed a bit more of a 'deposit' for said work. I'd also requested the 'Show Finish' on this for an additional $350 on top of the base price of $600...that's $950 for you without a calculator handy. This is the 1 year mark and I've paid $500.

At 1 1/2 years, the Makers cell phone takes a swim and would I PLEASE just pay the balance?!? Again, this is a 'friend' of many years and a number of knives. The wait continues and now it's 2 years....crickets.

I've finally reached the end of my rope and finally demand the knife or my money back, knowing this guy doesn't have 2 dimes to rub together let alone basically $1K in cash I'm gonna get a knife, hopefully....fast forward 6 months.

More excuses and BS but then I get a message that another REAL friend of mine has the piece to finish the handle, since this other guy evidently didn't have the wherewithal to finish the Godforsaken thing after jacking me around for 2 1/2 years! I FINALLY get said piece and what an abomination for $1K....no sheath or even blade cover, the 'DeluxeSuperDooper$350ExtraShowFinish' is a f'n cruel joke with fire-scale on the flats I could still chisel off if I wanted and the best part? The heat-treat absolutely sucks as the tip was overheated and is soft, the clip was never sharpened, and it's about 2/3 the physical size that it should have been....makes me sick!

I leave it out just to remind me that, yes, even your 'friends' will run it in to the hair line....hard and dry. No names but you all can bet your very last cent with certainty that no money will leave my hands before it's time and it's BS exactly like this that have me backing away from my collecting passion of Custom Knives, albeit my fault for breaking 'The Deposit Rule', it ain't never gonna happen again.

Again, I'm not going to divulge this guys name and y'all can cuss me all you want but that's how it is....don't give anyone any money up front and you won't have to worry about it. Like Rick and John have said, they will sell the knives they make if you stiff them but don't expect to place any other orders with them, I would be ashamed to even think I could at that point.

I recently finalized a terrible experience (not the way my Brother Sam means it either) from a very well known Maker. I reluctantly entered into an agreement to get in on a run of special knives at the tune of $200....that was 2 1/2 years ago....I think y'all know where this is going.

Being the Wonderful Person I am... ...I listened as, what I considered a friend, he tells me of his financial woes and needed a bit more of a 'deposit' for said work. I'd also requested the 'Show Finish' on this for an additional $350 on top of the base price of $600...that's $950 for you without a calculator handy. This is the 1 year mark and I've paid $500.

At 1 1/2 years, the Makers cell phone takes a swim and would I PLEASE just pay the balance?!? Again, this is a 'friend' of many years and a number of knives. The wait continues and now it's 2 years....crickets.

I've finally reached the end of my rope and finally demand the knife or my money back, knowing this guy doesn't have 2 dimes to rub together let alone basically $1K in cash I'm gonna get a knife, hopefully....fast forward 6 months.

More excuses and BS but then I get a message that another REAL friend of mine has the piece to finish the handle, since this other guy evidently didn't have the wherewithal to finish the Godforsaken thing after jacking me around for 2 1/2 years! I FINALLY get said piece and what an abomination for $1K....no sheath or even blade cover, the 'DeluxeSuperDooper$350ExtraShowFinish' is a f'n cruel joke with fire-scale on the flats I could still chisel off if I wanted and the best part? The heat-treat absolutely sucks as the tip was overheated and is soft, the clip was never sharpened, and it's about 2/3 the physical size that it should have been....makes me sick!

I leave it out just to remind me that, yes, even your 'friends' will run it in to the hair line....hard and dry. No names but you all can bet your very last cent with certainty that no money will leave my hands before it's time and it's BS exactly like this that have me backing away from my collecting passion of Custom Knives, albeit my fault for breaking 'The Deposit Rule', it ain't never gonna happen again.

Again, I'm not going to divulge this guys name and y'all can cuss me all you want but that's how it is....don't give anyone any money up front and you won't have to worry about it. Like Rick and John have said, they will sell the knives they make if you stiff them but don't expect to place any other orders with them, I would be ashamed to even think I could at that point.