Clients and Makers and Deposits, Oh My!

Lorien said:
I always avoid absolutism and prefer to take a flexible approach to things. While I generally agree that deposits are not a good idea, I've got 4 or 5 knives, partially complete, in various shops all over the place that I've completed my part of the deal on. More important to me than the knives is the trust and respect which lead to their creation in the first place, so I'm very careful with who I front to and recognize the significance of patience, because I know that;

The hardest knife to make is the one which is already paid for.
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I totally agree with that one.
That's why I never accept full payment.
My deposits are typically 30 % to cover steel and materials.
 
I’ve had makers ask me for very small deposits when I order

If I’m not asking them to use unobtainum I have declined placing the order

The list of makers that have wrecked their names by taking deposits is very long ....a lot longer than the list of makers who wrecked their name by not taking deposits
 
JParanee said:
I’ve had makers ask me for very small deposits when I order

If I’m not asking them to use unobtainum I have declined placing the order

The list of makers that have wrecked their names by taking deposits is very long ....a lot longer than the list of makers who wrecked their name by not taking deposits
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That is very true, but I dislike throwing good makers,who take deposits under the bus, with the bad makers.

I have 2 knives on order from Randall, I guess I will keep my fingers crossed :)
 
Rick Marchand said:
Okay.....

You guys have been carrying on long enough. While I appreciate all the input makers and buyers have provided, you have completely failed to grasp the true purpose of this thread.

The blade on page one is no longer available.



:pRick:D:thumbsup:
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Crafty so-and-so. A double lesson in marketing.

So, do you make sure to get your name in the movie credits for having made the blade? I know it brought work to Jack Crain in spite of a bad reputation on deposits.
 
the discussion regarding friendships and business brought me to the thought that expectations are the heaviest of burden on a friendship.

With my best friends, I keep my expectations low, and keep my understanding dial cranked to 11.

I think that feelings often get in the way of solutions, and that emotions which are brought forth in some business interactions regarding something very personal, like a custom made knife, can turn very ugly once distrust and suspicion set in.
 
Yes, balance is key. I think part of the problem stems from the fact that to the buyer-to-be, the deposit represents a fantasy and ultimately a several-hundred dollar piece to be proud of. To the maker, the $50 (or whatever) represents $50. And many hours of work yet to do. So the two parties have vastly unequal relationships with that $50. And for those of us who are sensitive to imbalance in relationships, it drags that much more.
 
To me, a $50 or $X deposit represents the buyer's labor, from a job he probably hates or at least would rather be somewhere else, that could have gone into his kid, his gas tank, his electric bill. What am I going to do with it? I don't need it to make his knife. I don't need it to pay my bills, keep my "doors open" or "things moving." I'm not going to charge him opportunity cost of his labor, when if anything I would just stash it away so I could give it back to him at his request for whatever reason.

Taking money from someone in (relatively)immediate exchange for goods and services I can do. Expectations are either fulfilled or not met with the item in hand. If they're not, a refund is a mouse click away. I can't give back 3 months of whatever that deposit could have done for the buyer.

I guess for me it amounts to this: When a buyer and I come to an agreement about price for a knife, I know exactly what he's trading me. $500 is $500. Doesn't matter if it comes from Bill, or Jim, or Pete. It's $500. He doesn't know what he's getting from me. He has an idea, maybe a good idea, maybe he's even said "Make me one identical to this one you've already made." But he still doesn't know until he's got it in his hand, because I'm human, and I make mistakes, or misinterpret expectations, and "identical" hand made items rarely are. So I believe that the burden is on me to provide what was asked for, for the price stated, and not on the buyer who's trading me objectively exactly what I asked for in trade. It's not that I'm not confident in my ability to supply what I agreed to supply. It's that I'm not confident that the expectations agreed to were communicated perfectly and when I provide exactly what I thought we agreed to, it's not exactly what the buyer thought we agreed to.
 
kuraki kuraki That ^^^ is an insightful post. I especially agree with the "I don't need his $50 to stay alive."

This seems to be a common theme. Even with 'special materials' I wince. Inherent in the 'cost of doing business' is to purchase inventory for the product(s) you create. If the materials are so far out of wack with your work, that it would be an impediment to sell to another, well, I don't have an answer for that, outside of 'it may be a bridge too far'.

DHIII just remarked he has thousands tied up in handle material for inventory. That's how it's done, certainly for the successful knifemaker. It's a business, and he treats it as such.

Alas, the makers of the world are wonderful artists. Some, at the expense of business acumen. I guess that's a compromise.

Decide carefully.
 
Heck, at least we're not talking about fronting material, burden and labor, to get paid net 90 :eek::D
 
Sorry I'm late to this party.
I never take deposits. Ever.
if I did I wouldn't be able to sleep.
I do not give delivery dates. No promises = none broken.
With my backlog, that would be impossible to control.
A new customer's name goes on a list. I don't even need to know what kind of knife he wants! As his name approaches construction phase - I get in contact and we discuss the knife and price.
I'm a one-man show and can only accomplish so much.
My customers are wonderful.
 
BenR.T. said:
I don’t take deposits. I also don’t take orders for a knife that I don’t think I can sell if the customers falls of the face of the earth.
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Perfect and direct - a simple and practical solution. :thumbsup:

AT ray
 
For the makers that state they never take deposits nor give delivery dates, I have a question. Did you all start off this way or is that how you ended up from experience? I would like to transition to that model myself but finding that in this day and age with every supplier photographing their entire inventory and posting it online it is impossible for me to compete with. I had at one time about a grand tied up in handle inventory and found that customers almost always chose something else from an online supplier with dozens if not hundreds of blocks to choose from. Occasionally I will get a commission where the client leaves all the details up to me and that seems to be the most fun to build but I cant imagine starting out that way from square one.
 
I worked for a hitech knife company for several years, and when I last worked for him he had 1000s of customers who paid downpayments... his wait time was 18+ months. And that was 3-4 years ago.... i often wonder what his wait times are now. If I ever return to knife making, I would adopt the business practice of non-downpayments. I couldn't work fast enough to keep up with folder orders and it was stressing me out to no end and affecting my well-being. I hate that kind of pressure. It made me leave the knife industry.

Plus, customer service was a nightmare... pissed off customers constantly rage calling for their knife because of passed due dates or changing their knife-order mid process made it a no win situation. The front office ladies who took orders would often break down because of irate customers chewing them out. No down payments and soft delivery dates sounds like a win win for everyone. The customer isn't out any money and if you make a good product you should be able to sell if to another person.
 
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A very good friend and extremely successful maker told me, long ago, that the stuff he made because he wanted to ALWAYS sold faster than the stuff he made because he thought he was supposed to. When you’re passionate about something, it shows in the work, to those with the right eye.


timos- said:
Occasionally I will get a commission where the client leaves all the details up to me and that seems to be the most fun to build...
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