CNC and knife production

J.Davey said:
If it is a labor of love, then why do they always cost so much? Love is free...most of the time.:D

I'm just sayin'.

For my hard-earned money, quality is quality, no matter how it's made.
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If love is free, then I've been doing it wrong, 'cause it's always cost me a dinner at the very least.:D

I'm with you: quality is quality, no matter how it's made, or where it comes from. It's one of those things that can't be faked; it's either there, or it's not.
 
dawsonbob said:
If love is free, then I've been doing it wrong, 'cause it's always cost me a dinner at the very least.:D

I'm with you: quality is quality, no matter how it's made, or where it comes from. It's one of those things that can't be faked; it's either there, or it's not.
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:D :thumbup:
 
dawsonbob said:
A knife shaped like the Op is talking about is a labor of love.

A CNC shaped knife is business.

Without the automation there could be no common, inexpensive production knives; the cost of labor is too high.
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With all due respect, this is nonsense. There is not necessarily less passion, expertise, skill, or effort in design with a CNC produced knife than one made any other way.
 
To me, a "custom knife" is a one of a kind. A handmade knife is one that is primarily done by hand, one at a time, excluding 'blanking'. I see nothing wrong with CNC being used by anyone. I think the difference between production and handmade or custom knives is individual attention to detail. Think about heat treat. Many knife makers send blades out for heat treating. Does that mean they are no longer handmade or custom?
 
me2 said:
With all due respect, this is nonsense. There is not necessarily less passion, expertise, skill, or effort in design with a CNC produced knife than one made any other way.
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No, there's not, and I should have explained what I meant.

A knife that's hand forged and shaped with files and stones is probably a labor of love. The maker likes feeling the steel and other components as he crafts a knife. Except for a very few makers, who are essentially turning out individual pieces of art, this is not usually a good method from a business standpoint: it simply costs too much on a per knife basis to be viable for most makers.

I don't make knives. I've made my living as a designer for over thirty-five years though, so I do have some understanding of the design process. It, too, is a labor of love, and, yes, a designer does pour passion and skill into the process. If I'm designing a knife, which from my end is just a big, ugly, pile of math, I'm not turning it over to a craftsman for hand forging. No, it's going to CNC for production, so that many identical knives can be produced.

So yes, there is not only passion and skill and effort going into the knife from a design standpoint, but from the people who transform what comes out of my computer into a physical object as well. Doing it this way allows many knives to be produced and sold at a reasonable price point — that's just good business.

I hope I've explained what I meant more fully.
 
Kitkat52, you come off as a purist -Nothing wrong with that at all:thumbup:.

I too can appreciate an entirely handmade knife.

To be fair though, consider steel suppliers and steel manufacturers. I assume a lot of the processes that are used to make steel are mechanized as well (CNC, CAM, etc). There is no getting around it these days. To have an entirely hand made knife, from beginning to end, you are probably looking at $20,000.00 USC (just a guess).

So, in a true purist sense, a blacksmith should have to mine his own ore, separate the metals from it by using his home made kiln (or whatever that is called). Melt the metal into a workable shape, then begin pounding and folding.

Im just pointing out that CNC is likely used before the knife maker ever even touches the his steel.
 
The Government said:
So, in a true purist sense, a blacksmith should have to mine his own ore, separate the metals from it by using his home made kiln (or whatever that is called). Melt the metal into a workable shape, then begin pounding and folding.
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Not to mention make his own files, hammers etc., quarry the stone to make a grinding wheel, plant a tree and wait 30 years to harvest the wood... :D


The Government said:
Im just pointing out that CNC is likely used before the knife maker ever even touches the his steel.
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Yup! CNC just makes good business sense for anyone making a bunch of the same pattern. If you want a one-of-a-kind handmade piece, there's plenty of folks who will gladly take your order. Having the choice is a good thing.
 
Some of the best knives, too:

IMGP3698.jpg


IMGP3816.jpg


IMGP3983.jpg


All three knives above have hand-ground blades and CNCed frames.
RJ Martin is one of the precursors of the use of CNC machines in the production of custom knives.
Tim Galyean calls the knives he makes using CNC equipment midtech, regardless of whether the blade is hand-ground or not. His full customs cost upward of $3000, these midtechs are much more affordable, mostly thanks to the use of CNC-made parts.
We all know the success of the XM-18, that would not have been possible without the use of CNC technology to produce absolutely identical frames. These are the only custom folders on the market that allow the user to swap the scale by himself without the need for any adjustment.
 
LorenzoL said:
Some of the best knives, too:

IMGP3698.jpg


IMGP3816.jpg


IMGP3983.jpg


All three knives above have hand-ground blades and CNCed frames.
RJ Martin is one of the precursors of the use of CNC machines in the production of custom knives.
Tim Galyean calls the knives he makes using CNC equipment midtech, regardless of whether the blade is hand-ground or not. His full customs cost upward of $3000, these midtechs are much more affordable, mostly thanks to the use of CNC-made parts.
We all know the success of the XM-18, that would not have been possible without the use of CNC technology to produce absolutely identical frames. These are the only custom folders on the market that allow the user to swap the scale by himself without the need of any adjustment.
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Beautiful knives! If those don't have soul and passion, then soul and passion be danged.
 
I think CNC is great for business for all of the production reasons. Less time spent for actual machining, better quality control, and just much larger production yield than otherwise. Not only is that good for business, but it translates into being better for the consumer, because as one company without CNC may charge an overhead to cover the cost of production by laborers, or merely by producing less than they could with CNC, a company using CNC production could charge less for their knives. It also improves things in the design department as well as production when considering that if a designer had to make everything by hand they may not try every little thing until they got it "just right".

I think the sentiment to making hand crafted knives is great, but generally speaking CNC is great because not only does it improve the ability to manufacture and produce, but it improves the ability to do so more precisely than ever.

Ultimately though I don't see why it being CNC should remove anything from the artistic merit involved here. I mean, is an artists work any less amazing because he uses a computer graphics program instead of a canvas and easel?
 
LorenzoL,

What are the knives in the pics? I recognize the Hinderer and the middle one looks like a Lahar, the top knife I'd like to know about too. Those top two are dead sexy blades. The XM of course, is a beast/tank/etc.. :)
 
Here is a link to a cool RJ Martin WIP thread: http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80063
As you can all see, even CNC parts require a lot of human input.

cziv, the top one is an RJ Martin Interframe Overkill in S110V steel. Peolpe that think RJ is a slacker for using CNC equipment should consider the fact that very few makers out there will undertake grinding blades out of S110V. Actually, 90% of all custom makers will stick to the usual suspects, 154CM/ATS-34, CPM-154/RWL-34 and S30V (I am talking about folders).

IMGP3701.jpg


You are correct, the middle one is a large Lahar by Tim Galyean. Here is another pic:

IMGP3809.jpg


The bottom one is a hand-ground XM-18 with Rick's new "slicer" grind.

IMGP4048.jpg
 
LorenzoL said:
Here is a link to a cool RJ Martin WIP thread: http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80063
As you can all see, even CNC parts require a lot of human input.

cziv, the top one is an RJ Martin Interframe Overkill in S110V steel. Peolpe that think RJ is a slacker for using CNC equipment should consider the fact that very few makers out there will undertake grinding blades out of S110V. Actually, 90% of all custom makers will stick to the usual suspects, 154CM/ATS-34, CPM-154/RWL-34 and S30V (I am talking about folders).

IMGP3701.jpg


You are correct, the middle one is a large Lahar by Tim Galyean. Here is another pic:

IMGP3809.jpg


The bottom one is a hand-ground XM-18 with Rick's new "slicer" grind.

IMGP4048.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks for that link. I'm going to check it out in a moment. You snuck that custom slicer in there you sly dog. I figured it was a production. :D
 
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