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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Cobalt AK Prototype and More....
- Thread starter munk
- Start date
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SASSAS said:
The poll on the end already acts as a nut cracker...both practical and tactical
Jake
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munk said:
Just got it. Thanks.
Jake
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- Jun 16, 2003
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Brian,
Funny stuff.
There was a WW II vintage fixed-blade with the same "cho" -- the one with the ring through the protruding tang.
Funny stuff.
There was a WW II vintage fixed-blade with the same "cho" -- the one with the ring through the protruding tang.
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2003
- Messages
- 5,594
I was looking at the original drawing ( which I really like) and I was thinking this knife is much wider than the original design.
IS that necessary?
IS that necessary?
If it's wider, it's wider at the base- the tip end should be the same. If you recall, the modification to give a straight edge and have room for fingers on a cutting board meant the base end dropped about a 1/2" . I'll measure later and see for sure. The tip end is still wider than the base, though not by much.
measurements:
Old AK Bowie- Bura 2 1/2 at clip point break, 2 1/8 at forward edge cho, 2" rear edge
New AK Bowie Cleaver 2 5/8-or a little less. 2 1/2 at forward edge of cho, 2 3/8 a rear edge.
So, I guess I don't know if the less than 1/8th inch difference in width at clip point break is a standard variation. I assume it is.
The new one is more massive because it lacks a clip point and the inward sweep of the edge of the old one which also made it narrower.
munk
measurements:
Old AK Bowie- Bura 2 1/2 at clip point break, 2 1/8 at forward edge cho, 2" rear edge
New AK Bowie Cleaver 2 5/8-or a little less. 2 1/2 at forward edge of cho, 2 3/8 a rear edge.
So, I guess I don't know if the less than 1/8th inch difference in width at clip point break is a standard variation. I assume it is.
The new one is more massive because it lacks a clip point and the inward sweep of the edge of the old one which also made it narrower.
munk
- Joined
- Nov 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,331
Hey, y'all, what would you think of a sharpened false edge? I'm not usually a fan of double-edged blades, but if just the last 1.5" or so of the backside were sharpened, DIJ and I could still do cool stuff like reinforcing the back of the blade, while still allowing easier blade insertion.
John
John
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- Nov 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,331
No, it wouldn't really be any more dangerous in the kitchen- the knife is so heavy, it's not the type of knife you'd use the tip for fine chopping. That'd be the only reason in the kitchen to grab the top near the tip.
That's alright. I had that hat on my head before I hit the car, munk. Thanks.
John
That's alright. I had that hat on my head before I hit the car, munk. Thanks.
John
OK. This is what I've learned:
knife is 15.5" long
handle is 5 3/4
blades is about 9 1/2"
Weight is 2lbs
The blade is much more striking than some take away from the photo. It is large but not unwieldy or too much.
It outcuts the old AK Bowie. I think it outcuts some lesser weighted khuks as well, though not a khuk of similar weight. I believe it may outcut the new FF and Sher "Attitude" Special. Both of those blades are a half pound lighter at least.
Limbs that are old but still resiliant have a terrible toll on edges. They bend, trap the edge, and give it twisting and multi-directional pushes and pulls. This edge maintained. There is a sweet spot on the blade, I can tell by how the hones slip a little.
Question for you knife experts: would it be advantagious to have a hardened edge nearly the entire length of the blade or not? The tip is softer, though I do not think too soft.
As I sharpened I seemed to get into harder metal beneath surface- something many of you have commented on as well.
It cuts logs. It delimbs. If I didn't like khuks better, this would be MY Knife. As it is, I like it so much it is always around.
Question for you knife Experts: Do you want a 1 1/2" edge on the top of blade at tip in the final production?
Question for Knife Experts: Would you like to see a smaller version made as well, say 12" and slightly narrower?
I am very pleased. Not all the testing is done. Though I have given it some proof bashes, I still want to try some real hard wood to see if I can't roll an edge the way Hollowdweller has said some of his AK Bowies deformed.
I do not think an AK Bowie should deform like that, but it may be a function of the sweet spot production, and may be cured by a longer hardened edge.
Kitchen results are not in yet, but initial performance on apples and other hard fruits and vegies suggest we have a winner. Oh, there are better suited cleavers, but this one will do a job and in some cases may be the best tool. The fullers seem to help. They allow a reduction in friction or pressure as you chop through. Very nice. I've been using a tip to back rocking motion, but other styles will be tried. I think bones smashing is going to be fun.
Question for Knife experts: Would you like to see the non sharp edge to the rear of the cho curved, so that one could rock forward while chopping vegies? We couldn't make it too steep an angle, as your knuckles will impact the cutting plane.
The handle. Much has been written on the AK Bowie handle. Dan Koster specialized in modification of this handle, and has published here at least one step by step instruction on this process. As he says, it is one of the simplest and most productive mods one can make to a HI product. The slabs are easily modified or replaced.
Dan asked me about the handle. I've cut more now and I'll say this; for really chopping the wood, I need to take down the sharp lines between the slab fronts and the sides. This sharp 'edge' hurts a little. I like the idea of the wide slabs because this is a large heavy knife and that amount of flat surface area will help me to maintain the grip and not let the knife twist in my hand.
Some of the grips I've seen for these AK Bowies are smaller diameter and would be fine for this Cleaver in the Kitchen, but not for wood chopping.
This knife represents a dream I've had since first coming to HI forum and I'm grateful to Yangdu for fullfilling it.
I think it's a winner and I like it more than the old AK Bowie because it can do more. It chops better and the flat edge gives you cleaver use. The old AK Bowie was critized as a fighter because of it's weight primarily. IT was and still is competant as many woods jobs. I think this one is better. However, this new AK Cleaver is heavier, and that will change it's carryability for some folks. For me, 2lbs is just the limit, and it's shorter OAL than say an 18" khuk of similar weight makes it easier on the thighs- less leg slap. (though leg slap is not really a problem for me with khuks of 18" or less length)
One final Question for you Knife Experts: would you like to see three fullers instead of two? The left side of this prototype has a flat of metal on the blade hollowed out some, and this has created a partial fuller that is most becoming. Another fuller would add to beauty and lessen the weight of this behemoth, though not enough to lessen it's chopping uses I'd guess. Would raise the price some, though, right?
I will get some picts up- I've got a neighbor who will do the deed.
thank you guys for listening,
munk
knife is 15.5" long
handle is 5 3/4
blades is about 9 1/2"
Weight is 2lbs
The blade is much more striking than some take away from the photo. It is large but not unwieldy or too much.
It outcuts the old AK Bowie. I think it outcuts some lesser weighted khuks as well, though not a khuk of similar weight. I believe it may outcut the new FF and Sher "Attitude" Special. Both of those blades are a half pound lighter at least.
Limbs that are old but still resiliant have a terrible toll on edges. They bend, trap the edge, and give it twisting and multi-directional pushes and pulls. This edge maintained. There is a sweet spot on the blade, I can tell by how the hones slip a little.
Question for you knife experts: would it be advantagious to have a hardened edge nearly the entire length of the blade or not? The tip is softer, though I do not think too soft.
As I sharpened I seemed to get into harder metal beneath surface- something many of you have commented on as well.
It cuts logs. It delimbs. If I didn't like khuks better, this would be MY Knife. As it is, I like it so much it is always around.
Question for you knife Experts: Do you want a 1 1/2" edge on the top of blade at tip in the final production?
Question for Knife Experts: Would you like to see a smaller version made as well, say 12" and slightly narrower?
I am very pleased. Not all the testing is done. Though I have given it some proof bashes, I still want to try some real hard wood to see if I can't roll an edge the way Hollowdweller has said some of his AK Bowies deformed.
I do not think an AK Bowie should deform like that, but it may be a function of the sweet spot production, and may be cured by a longer hardened edge.
Kitchen results are not in yet, but initial performance on apples and other hard fruits and vegies suggest we have a winner. Oh, there are better suited cleavers, but this one will do a job and in some cases may be the best tool. The fullers seem to help. They allow a reduction in friction or pressure as you chop through. Very nice. I've been using a tip to back rocking motion, but other styles will be tried. I think bones smashing is going to be fun.
Question for Knife experts: Would you like to see the non sharp edge to the rear of the cho curved, so that one could rock forward while chopping vegies? We couldn't make it too steep an angle, as your knuckles will impact the cutting plane.
The handle. Much has been written on the AK Bowie handle. Dan Koster specialized in modification of this handle, and has published here at least one step by step instruction on this process. As he says, it is one of the simplest and most productive mods one can make to a HI product. The slabs are easily modified or replaced.
Dan asked me about the handle. I've cut more now and I'll say this; for really chopping the wood, I need to take down the sharp lines between the slab fronts and the sides. This sharp 'edge' hurts a little. I like the idea of the wide slabs because this is a large heavy knife and that amount of flat surface area will help me to maintain the grip and not let the knife twist in my hand.
Some of the grips I've seen for these AK Bowies are smaller diameter and would be fine for this Cleaver in the Kitchen, but not for wood chopping.
This knife represents a dream I've had since first coming to HI forum and I'm grateful to Yangdu for fullfilling it.
I think it's a winner and I like it more than the old AK Bowie because it can do more. It chops better and the flat edge gives you cleaver use. The old AK Bowie was critized as a fighter because of it's weight primarily. IT was and still is competant as many woods jobs. I think this one is better. However, this new AK Cleaver is heavier, and that will change it's carryability for some folks. For me, 2lbs is just the limit, and it's shorter OAL than say an 18" khuk of similar weight makes it easier on the thighs- less leg slap. (though leg slap is not really a problem for me with khuks of 18" or less length)
One final Question for you Knife Experts: would you like to see three fullers instead of two? The left side of this prototype has a flat of metal on the blade hollowed out some, and this has created a partial fuller that is most becoming. Another fuller would add to beauty and lessen the weight of this behemoth, though not enough to lessen it's chopping uses I'd guess. Would raise the price some, though, right?
I will get some picts up- I've got a neighbor who will do the deed.
thank you guys for listening,
munk
- Joined
- May 12, 2003
- Messages
- 1,606
Munk,
This is a cool project...
I am going to toss some pesos into the hat here...
First, I would say leave all the stuff alone...Here's why...
The new trend in a the knife world is pimping up knives that need a touch here and there...this one has all kinds of possibilities! The first one I would do is grind out the can opener...and make an arc there...for a choke up position...
As far as tips go for kitchen work...my favorite in the kitchen is an 8 inch Chinese cleaver from Henckel...I keep it sharp and can do most whatever I need to...I could also see this one with a tip like one of Tai Goo's Bush Bowies...way sweet!
Putting new handle slabs on is easy...and actually changing this up to a stick tang arrangement is not that much harder!
One thing though...if you decide to go with the sharpened false edge idea...
The kamis will have to change their HT just a bit to bring the heat all the way back form the tip to include this portion as well...pouring water over that big of a section, to include the tip, may prove a bit different...
Plus there is all kinds of room for file work on the spine...and etching in big bold patterns on the flats...
Anyhow...looks like a fun project.
Shane
Unless it is hardened properly...well it is a bit harder to keep sharp...
This is a cool project...
I am going to toss some pesos into the hat here...
First, I would say leave all the stuff alone...Here's why...
The new trend in a the knife world is pimping up knives that need a touch here and there...this one has all kinds of possibilities! The first one I would do is grind out the can opener...and make an arc there...for a choke up position...
As far as tips go for kitchen work...my favorite in the kitchen is an 8 inch Chinese cleaver from Henckel...I keep it sharp and can do most whatever I need to...I could also see this one with a tip like one of Tai Goo's Bush Bowies...way sweet!
Putting new handle slabs on is easy...and actually changing this up to a stick tang arrangement is not that much harder!
One thing though...if you decide to go with the sharpened false edge idea...
The kamis will have to change their HT just a bit to bring the heat all the way back form the tip to include this portion as well...pouring water over that big of a section, to include the tip, may prove a bit different...
Plus there is all kinds of room for file work on the spine...and etching in big bold patterns on the flats...
Anyhow...looks like a fun project.
Shane
Unless it is hardened properly...well it is a bit harder to keep sharp...
- Joined
- May 9, 2002
- Messages
- 12,692
Great write up, Munk.
I personally would like the tip to have an 1 1/2" of edge to it. I think it might benefit it's performance. I've always seen the AK bowie as swiss army knife of sorts. It packs easier that a khuk, you can chop, you can make fairly straight slices, the end of it is hardened slightly so that you can pound with it, there is a spot for a lanyard which offers a million different utillity combos.
I think we have a real winner here as a heavy cooking/camping knife. I don't know if it will replace my old bowie. There is something about that sweeping clip that makes it special in my eyes. However, i wouldn't mind a fancied up version for some hard work with several fullers.
I don't know how the others feel about the angled slabs, but the first thing I would do with them is take a sharp knife and shave them down, then sand them smoother. I like the angles as they keep the knife from turning in my hand, but they are a bit of overkill and bothersome when sharp. I suppose that if the Kamis are set in making them that way, it really isn't hard to smooth horn out. It took me all of about 30 or 40 mins to get mine to where i wanted it.
I'm willing to give this beautiful creature a try when the next run comes in. Hopefully, I can do a good photographed side by side comparison between this new cleaver and a Bura AK bowie. I should have some time before works pics up again.
BTW, what does anyone think about incorporating a frog retention ring into this knife's scabbard like they did with the Sher Attitude Special? That has been the number one problem with my bowies, they like to slip through the frog. Once again, not a big deal, but at 2lbs, they are going to be more likely to slip through on their own, i would imagine.
Jake
I personally would like the tip to have an 1 1/2" of edge to it. I think it might benefit it's performance. I've always seen the AK bowie as swiss army knife of sorts. It packs easier that a khuk, you can chop, you can make fairly straight slices, the end of it is hardened slightly so that you can pound with it, there is a spot for a lanyard which offers a million different utillity combos.
I think we have a real winner here as a heavy cooking/camping knife. I don't know if it will replace my old bowie. There is something about that sweeping clip that makes it special in my eyes. However, i wouldn't mind a fancied up version for some hard work with several fullers.
I don't know how the others feel about the angled slabs, but the first thing I would do with them is take a sharp knife and shave them down, then sand them smoother. I like the angles as they keep the knife from turning in my hand, but they are a bit of overkill and bothersome when sharp. I suppose that if the Kamis are set in making them that way, it really isn't hard to smooth horn out. It took me all of about 30 or 40 mins to get mine to where i wanted it.
I'm willing to give this beautiful creature a try when the next run comes in. Hopefully, I can do a good photographed side by side comparison between this new cleaver and a Bura AK bowie. I should have some time before works pics up again.
BTW, what does anyone think about incorporating a frog retention ring into this knife's scabbard like they did with the Sher Attitude Special? That has been the number one problem with my bowies, they like to slip through the frog. Once again, not a big deal, but at 2lbs, they are going to be more likely to slip through on their own, i would imagine.
Jake
Steely;
the rentention 'rib' on the scabbard that stops the frog? (that's what's on my Sher Attitude. Good idea for Bowie.
Shane;
I guess what you're saying is leave the knife alone and let the folks tweak their own. Makes sense. I just rounded the end of the blade for rocking while chopping. Remember- there are two limits to the movement rearwards. 1) the knuckes, or the space between the handle and the table top, and 2) the bell at the end of the handle stops rearward movement even before the knuckles. You'd have to do something about that.
munk
the rentention 'rib' on the scabbard that stops the frog? (that's what's on my Sher Attitude. Good idea for Bowie.
Shane;
I guess what you're saying is leave the knife alone and let the folks tweak their own. Makes sense. I just rounded the end of the blade for rocking while chopping. Remember- there are two limits to the movement rearwards. 1) the knuckes, or the space between the handle and the table top, and 2) the bell at the end of the handle stops rearward movement even before the knuckles. You'd have to do something about that.
munk