Cold forging

[delbert ealy]

I don't think anyone disputed Ed. Cold forging has been used to harden knives for a long time (~5000 years). Hammered copper and bronze worked well enough for the Egyptians to have straight razors made from them. We don't really know for sure if the knives Ed tested were cold forged car fenders; there were a couple steel sources mentioned in the article. However, given that it was that makers preferred steel, it's a reasable assumption. The knives pictured, especially a fillet knife, would need the thin cross section that starting with sheet metal (auto fenders) would provide. With superior geometry and some, or maybe a lot, of cold forging, they could work well. I've seen other writers evaluate low carbon steel knives and give them good marks in cutting ability.

And this is where everyone always goes wrong, Please read the rest of the metallurgy text, especially the part on how STEEL is defined and the diferences between it and iron.
Del

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I thought this post had died...Oh,Well.

Has anyone ever cold forged a knife and it would cut?...yes, some have. Most results varied from fair to poor.

Has anyone ever forged/ground and heat treated a knife by the conventional methods and temperatures and it would cut?......yes many thousands ( actually, millions) have. Most results varied from excellent to good ( with fair to poor being reserved for those who took shortcuts).

Has anyone used car parts to make a knife?....surely.
Were any of those knives more than mediocre?......I doubt it.

If the question falls on whether it is a good idea as a replacement for standard HT.
It is not.

If the question falls on could someone try it for fun. Go ahead, but don't expect a lot.

 

[me2]

And this is where everyone always goes wrong, Please read the rest of the metallurgy text, especially the part on how STEEL is defined and the diferences between it and iron.
Del

I'm not sure what you mean. How did I go wrong?

 

[Alarion]

Can be done?
Yes.
Cold forging has been the base of the copper and bronze age: cold worked bronze will hold a better edge than mild steel, can be shaped by pouring it in molds (they couldn't smelt iron as easily as bronze back then) and won't rust: bronze was abandoned because there were tin and copper shortages so people had to turn to the "inferior" iron.
A lot of automotive components today are strenghtened by cold working, no heat treating done.
BUT
You have to get the proper alloys, you have to know where to stop, or severe embrittlement will result, and anyway proper heat treating gives far better results.
So better that, even if cold working was a well known technique (it had been used as a standard for the previous 2000 years), people did not use it on steel manufacts and preferred heat treating. We have 3000 years old (about 2-300 years after the start of widespread use of iron) examples of hoes and axes with a wrought iron body with a welded on hard steel edge... they got the idea real fast

 

[Gabaski]

just to share the view from a production guy point of view.

i been reading that site and being new to all this , i kinda digest the site very slowly .

what i believe is that is relatively interesting to always read more and digest it before assuming is useful or just idea.

but i do find reading the site giving me me a new point of viewing what knife making had been and can be .

just like if someone tell you his Cars run on Water 50 years years ago you might think he is crazy . and just dreaming .

as science advance many thing is possible . one point that is bring bring up about ritual for knife making on the site and how we can update that ritual and welcome the future .

i been looking into some weird way to make knife . eg. induction heating which is kinda fun and within my reach and i might just build one when i got more info . but the degree of control now is still very lose to be able or rather enable me to control it enough to get the result i needs.

Whos know . in a few years some guy might come up with Nano forging . dipping your steel into cool nano cream and it would soft it and then dipping it into another red nano cream and it would strengthen it . as time go and we go and technology grow new steel will come to the market to replace the ritual of knife making .

so nobody need to throw their first child into the fire to make a good knife .

 

[Alarion]

First child into the fire?
Didn't they quench the blades sticking them into live slaves?