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Cold Steel - Aus 8A Stainless VS. Carpenters CTS XHP Alloy?
- Thread starter SniperElite
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Which Spyderco blades are you referring to? Thank you for the input! I appreciate it!
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All Recons are G10. The aluminum handled ones are the Code 4 line. And they're smaller than the Recons.
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I appreciate the response. I am aware of the differences between models but I did forget that the blade length and shape are slightly different which could attribute to the cost somewhat.
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Well here we go again. Perhaps XHP does offer better edge retention but how relevant is that? You can make 100 cuts with Aus 8 before it dulls and 105 cuts with XHP? Who cares? As far as corrosion resistance is concerned...do you leave your folders out in the rain Mr. Insipid? I've got a ton of Aus 8 knifes and I have yet to see a rust spot. Better "transverse toughness" sounds impressive and I take it to mean better lateral strength. However I would be amazed to see ANY steel break before the folders locking mechanism broke in a lateral torture test.
So are the new folders worth twice the price as the OP asks? Me thinks not.
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Carpenter's CTS XHP looks pretty close to D2 with a tad more chromium so maybe higher corrosion resistance. Should be an excellent knife steel; CS is no slouch when it comes to heat treatment.
Ankerson
Knife and Computer Geek
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I think the move to XHP is a good move for Cold Steel, it's a definite upgrade from AUS-8 across the board so it does makes since.
Not that AUS-8 is a bad steel because it isn't, but XHP is just an improvement without going too far so it still meets their requirements.
Price wise the XHP models are only slightly more than the AUS-8 models so it's not too bad.
Not that AUS-8 is a bad steel because it isn't, but XHP is just an improvement without going too far so it still meets their requirements.
Price wise the XHP models are only slightly more than the AUS-8 models so it's not too bad.
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Wow. No need to get so worked up over this. The difference in edge holding is far more than your 5 extra cuts. Further the price difference is not double. The Recon 1 Spear point I am interested in only has a $20 difference not an $80 difference. Very much worth it to me.
If we are going discuss this we need to at least get the basic facts correct.
Charr
Platinum Member
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I would second this, except that I would much prefer XHP to S30V in almost all cases. XHP has notably higher toughness, and forms a more stable edge in my experience as well.
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Pretty darn relevant if you actually cut stuff frequently, particularly since the AUS8 might make 100 and the XHP somewhere in the neighborhood of 180. Glad to hear you don't have corrosion issues, I've had AUS8 develop rust spots sitting in a drawer. As for the transverse toughness, go watch the videos where CS knives are tested to failure. It's almost invariably the blade that breaks before the lock on any Triad lock folder.
You prefer what you prefer, but get your facts straight or you're just going to look foolish.
Charr
Platinum Member
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You're pretty much spot on. XHP was designed with a version of D2 that was fully stainless in mind, and I have seen very good things from it in performance so far as well. Haven't had too many chances to use it yet though. The company that uses it the most right now seems to be Spyderco, and honestly I haven't really seen anything from their lineup lately that really speaks to me.
Do want to get a custom or two in XHP when I get the chance though. Really like what performance I have seen out of it, and it is a very useable, very easy to maintain steel that is still reasonable to sharpen for just about everyone, and seems to have quite good edge retention in it's category when the heat treat is done well.
Since at least 2 other people have already called out why you are wrong in your generalized assumptions, I am not going to linger on it too long. Suffice it to say that:
1. The difference in edge retention between AUS8A and CTS-XHP is much greater than you have said. Generally around an 80-100% improvement, depending on the material cut, the edge type used, and the heat treat. I would generally prefer a steel with higher edge retention for my EDC, and I usually end up carrying M390, Elmax, or similar, for my EDC knives. I don't exactly want to have to carry a sharpener or strop with me everywhere. I usually have one with me outdoors, so I then prefer to carry my Sebenza (S35VN) or a fixed in 3V, 1095, or A2, because they offer me a knife edge that is easy to repair, easy to sharpen, and that has better toughness over most of my EDC steels (Elmax excluded).
2. AUS8A has moderate corrosion reisistance, but is much lower than CTS-XHP. I have had several knives in AUS8 and AUS8A, and they started to corrode from the sweat in my pockets rather quickly, while none of the knives I have used in CTS-XHP have ever had those problems. You might have better results, but that is the reality of my experience, as well as many other people. Some people live and work in a much more humid environment, and therefor their knives are exposed to much more risk of corrosion, so they would benefit from a more stianless steel. One of the reasons CRK uses the steels they use is because they offer a wide variety of properties to users, much like what Cold Steel is doing here.
3. As another member mentioned, when you consider the insane strength of the Axis Lock, it is in fact the blade that will likely become the weak-point of the knife when being put under unreasonable strains, and the CTS-XHP will hold up much better, almost universally, in that regard. Though, really, I don't think that should be as much of a concern with a knife anyway, that's why it's a knife, and not a pry-bar.
4. The cost argument has been adressed as well. They are not going to be twice the price. In fact, they aren't even really that much more considering the upgrades in material costs, and the additional tooling costs to produce a knife in CTS-XHP instead of AUS8A. That is something that is often forgotten. The harder, tougher, and more wear-resistant the steel, the faster it will wear out machining equipment, and the most expensive production will be.
Add in the fact that they have upgraded their coating from a plain black paint to a "DLC" (really just another PVD coating though), and you really do have a substancial upgrade to their line. I think that these will be excellent user knives, and really do help the Cold Steel designs live up to their truly strong design.
Your argument is full of holes, and is not based on any form of sound logic, or really even valid, so I would also suggest you do your homework more before deciding it's a good idea to spout an opinion where others can see it. We've all done it. Just learn from it and get better at arguments so that next time you can express your point with sound logic and a valid structure to your discussion so that others won't ridicule you for it, and maybe someone will be better able to understand what you are trying to say.
On my personal opinion of this change by Cold Steel,
Honestly, I have thought that Cold Steel is one of the few knife companies that could reasonably call their folders "hard use" with justified reasoning, and now I beleive that even more. The main thing that stopped me from buying very many of them before WAS the low steel quality, because like I said, I prefer something better for my EDC use, since I use my knives quite a lot, and don't like continual maintenance
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There are other considerations if we want to talk about cost. For $20 extra bucks you get an American made steel. That is worth something right? Also, as Charr just pointed out, the coating is going to be actual DLC instead of point. This also costs more. In all, for $20 bucks more we really get much more for our money. Some folks might disagree but we need to at least be honest and represent the details correctly.
BTW, I have also had AUS8 develop a bit of rust spotting. Granted, it took years of use and probably neglect but it still happens.
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Agree completely. Honestly, I think it's kind of admirable for people who, through their experience, decide that AUS8 meets all their needs and that they'd rather not spend money on more expensive steels that, for them, would have minimal benefit.
I get annoyed when the facts are twisted or misrepresented and when those people start telling me what I need.
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There are a group of CS followers who don't believe an upgrade in steel is necessary regarding the increased cost. Just as there is a group of people who wanted this upgrade, can't make everybody happy. I have followed CS since the 80's, I am glad they took this step and look forward to giving one a whirl after so many years of Aus8. Still think the knives are a bargain.
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I think Cold Steel made the right call upgrading from Aus 8A Stainless to XHP....for about $20-$30 more you get a good quality "next generation" blade steel and DLC coating. Fear not, Cold steel will always offer something for the budget minded as well.
Having said that..I never had any issues with Cold Steel's Aus 8A, but upgrade options are a good thing.
Having said that..I never had any issues with Cold Steel's Aus 8A, but upgrade options are a good thing.
For the stuff under $100 I'm not sure if it was so necessary, the $40 Voyager was an amazing knife at that price, but for their $200+ knives it was definitely needed.
That said I will be picking up a large AUS-8 Espada now that they're all on clearance. I almost think they should have kept both in production, but it probably would have been too confusing.
Almost more importantly, they're the first company to put that quantity of 3V into production, which puts them into a new category of cool for me.
Putting studs on Tri Ad lock was a stroke of genius too. Can't wait to see that propagate to the rest of the line (someday, at least it looks amazing).
That said I will be picking up a large AUS-8 Espada now that they're all on clearance. I almost think they should have kept both in production, but it probably would have been too confusing.
Almost more importantly, they're the first company to put that quantity of 3V into production, which puts them into a new category of cool for me.
Putting studs on Tri Ad lock was a stroke of genius too. Can't wait to see that propagate to the rest of the line (someday, at least it looks amazing).