Cold Steel - Aus 8A Stainless VS. Carpenters CTS XHP Alloy?

[retzius]

It's funny to me that everyone has begged Cold steel to upgrade the lowly AUS8 for YEARS, yet once they upgrade to a steel that's probably 10 fold in performance the only thing anyone sees is the bottom line.

Its Cold Steel bro... they don't exactly market to the upscale buyer with zombie videos and attacks on car doors

 

[jpm2]

Then again, I dull CPM-M4, M390 etc in a days use so improved "wear resistance" does not mean much to me.

It means a lot to me, but what is equally important is toughness.
Although I too dull my m2 and m4 blades during a days work, less tough and wear resistant blades get completely trashed right quick.
There's a big difference 'tween dull and trashed, to me anyway.
My blade edges regularly come in contact with other metals/steels, so my priority in a work blade is whatever is most resistant to that. It just so happens that these particular blades are also excellent in all other cutting chores.

 

[Charr]

You really should have stopped here.

And your claims are proven fact right?

My gosh man. You need to stop making ridiculous statements.

As we all pointed out to you the first time you got all red faced the cost is not much at all. Again, $20 for better American made steel and actual DLC instead of paint. If you can't see the benefit of that then their just might not be any reasoning to be done here.

And a pot shot at CRK to end things off......

I was just about to reply to this when I saw you already had. Thank you my friend (if I may call you that), because you just saved me a lot more typing and did it in so many fewer words than I would have

I do have to say a couple of things though *inhale*

What I think is really going on here is that those who have drunk the kool-aid about "super" steels are desperate to justify spending much more money for steels that will be of little or no practical benefit. As someone else posted on this forum with regard to the Sebenza; the Emperor has no clothes.

Specifically on this part, I will say that if you were there for the entirety of that thread, you would know that there are many reasons that the Sebenza is no a knife that you will have an appreciation for the first day you get one, and edge retention is not a primary factor in the construction of the knife.

I can LITERALLY strop my Sebenza on my pants leg when I am wearing heavy work pants, and that is something that you cannot do with any other steel that compares in terms of edge retention to their S35VN. That is only one of the many reason I will always own a Sebenza.

Also, some people may not "need" a fancy steel for their knives, and honestly most of us probably don't need the majority of the features on the knives that we like the most, but does that make the knives we buy stupid or unreasonable? NO!
It's a hobby, and if you are here, that means that you share in our hobby, our addiction, or whatever you want to call it, so you should at least in part understand why we buy what we do.
I carry a $1000 knife literally as an EDC, but do I have to? Nope. I do it because it is something that I like to do, and I had the money and the reasoning to buy that knife for myself and I enjoy using it every single day. I cut all kinds of stuff with it, all day. Could I do the same thing with a knife that was 1/10 the cost, sure. Could I do it with a knife that was 1/100 the cost, probably. But you know what? I don't want to.
I like having a knife that I know will ALWAYS perform perfectly, and that I don't have to sharpen very often, even when I put it through a lot of use in a day. When I'm hunting or doing something else outdoors, yeah, I want a steel that is easier to maintain and can get sharp with light tools in the field, and then can be taken down and cleaned out easily if it is a folder, so I take my Sebenza and a fixed blade in a steel like 1095, D2, or A2.

 

[marthinus]

It means a lot to me, but what is equally important is toughness.
Although I too dull my m2 and m4 blades during a days work, less tough and wear resistant blades get completely trashed right quick.
There's a big difference 'tween dull and trashed, to me anyway.
My blade edges regularly come in contact with other metals/steels, so my priority in a work blade is whatever is most resistant to that. It just so happens that these particular blades are also excellent in all other cutting chores.

I have found higher wear resistant steels dull through microchipping far more than what I care for and since my knives can be used to prepare food chipping is not something I am fond off.

However I have used enough steels at this point to know how to cater my edge to my applications and what are the limits of steels so can mitigate the chipping significantly.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I'm sitting here with a bright red face because as you pointed out I made myself look so foolish. Nevertheless I'm going to soldier on and respond to your post; Have you actually compared Aus8 to XHP to come up with the figures above? I bet your claims are pure speculation... but even if they are true does it matter? How many people are going to make a hundred hard cuts with a folder even in a decade? Of course if Aus 8 does eventually dull it's easy to re-sharpen.
I've seen the Tatanka vs Voyager lock test but I've never seen a test where pressure is applied to a folder from the side. If the steel were to really break before the handle breaks off, then the Triad lock it's even better than I thought. Anyway have you seen any proof that XHP would survive longer than Aus 8 in that situation?
What I think is really going on here is that those who have drunk the kool-aid about "super" steels are desperate to justify spending much more money for steels that will be of little or no practical benefit. As someone else posted on this forum with regard to the Sebenza; the Emperor has no clothes.

A. I've used both steels quite a lot. B. It's not crazy unusual for me to make 100 cuts through double walled cardboard in the space of couple days. XHP has held a significantly better edge through this an AUS8. C. I don't find XHP any more difficult to sharpen than AUS8. I don't mind sharpening, but doing so when I'm at my business changes it from a nice, sort of meditative act to a stressful job. Than means I want something that will last the day without hitting the stones. D. Go watch some youtube videos, I think it was Cutlerylover who managed to snap his Recon 1 blade with lateral pressure.

If you want to doubt my claims, that's all good. Skepticism isn't a bad thing at all, so go do your own research. Look at the tests people have done, Ankerson has done plenty of rope-cut testing, Charpy testing is frequently published by the company that makes the steel and there are a ton of others who have given up a lot of time and effort to demonstrate the performance of various steels. I do my research, go do yours.

 

[always_an_eagle]

Since everyone was talking about corrosion resistance, one day I left my cold steel mini tuff lite (aus8) buried in snow for a night and no rust spots developed on the blade.

 

[jpm2]

I have found higher wear resistant steels dull through microchipping far more than what I care for and since my knives can be
used to prepare food chipping is not something I am fond off.

However I have used enough steels at this point to know how to cater my edge to my applications and what are the limits of steels so can mitigate the chipping
significantly.

This is why I stressed the importance of toughness, along with wear resistance. High wear resistance without a certain degree of toughness results in a very chip prone blade. This is what I've experienced with every stainless class blade I've tried.

I realize that almost 100% of knife owners don't use their blades the way I do. My needs are vastly different than most, to say the least.

Like you, I've used enough steels to have a general idea of their limitations, the way I use them.

 

[marthinus]

This is why I stressed the importance of toughness, along with wear resistance. High wear resistance without a certain degree of toughness results in a very chip prone blade. This is what I've experienced with every stainless class blade I've tried.

I realize that almost 100% of knife owners don't use their blades the way I do. My needs are vastly different than most, to say the least.

Like you, I've used enough steels to have a general idea of their limitations, the way I use them.

It is good to hear other people's experiences. Out of curiosity have you ever tried something like 12c27, 14c28n in a custom at HRC of 60 + ?

I have used these steels and Nitrobe-77 that are stainless steels without chipping issues. Nitrobe-77 is scarce and many people frown at it as it is not marketed at as a high wear resistant steel but was developed for food blender blades where chipping was not allowed due to ISO standards and a high emphasis on corrosion resistance. It is to my knowledge one of the purist steels being made through powder technology.

 

[Jason B.]

Its Cold Steel bro... they don't exactly market to the upscale buyer with zombie videos and attacks on car doors

I don't even understand what your saying here

 

[jpm2]

It is good to hear other people's experiences. Out of curiosity have you ever tried something like 12c27, 14c28n in a custom at HRC of 60 + ?

I have used these steels and Nitrobe-77 that are stainless steels without chipping issues. Nitrobe-77 is scarce and many people frown at it as it is not marketed at as a high wear resistant steel but was developed for food blender blades where chipping was not allowed due to ISO standards and a high emphasis on corrosion resistance. It is to my knowledge one of the purist steels being made through powder technology.

The only customs I have are my own, which use M2, M35, or T42. I've sharpened and tested alot of scrap pieces of industrial tool steels that have been available to me over the last 35 years. If the steel didn't perform well, I didn't bother to find out what it was, much less grind out a blade.

I doubt I've tried any of those steels you mentioned in a custom, but would like to, as I've never experienced a stainless that didn't excessively chip or roll. I would be able to tell in 5 minutes.

 

[RevDevil]

The Tiger Claw has thumb studs on the lockbar allowing it to be unlocked with one hand.

Wow, when I see that I cannot help but think Spyderco Karahawk.

 

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Or, you know, pretty much any folding karambit.

Though XHP steel, thumb plate opening, and a tri-ad lock means it is uniquely Cold Steel's.