Cold Steel= flat out liars

TheBruce said:
San Mai III is every bit as good as BG-42
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On what do you base this statement?


TheBruce said:
There is no stronger folder for the money, merely other worthy choices which deserve proper respect.
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What, to you, determines a folder's strength?



Cheers,
3Guardsmen
 
DngrRuss1 said:
let's not forget that CS introduced the tanto to the American market.
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Also lets be a little more accurate about that particular statement. CS bastardized the tanto into harsh angular chisel ground monstrosity the american tanto is today. Any resemblance between the new cs folders and an actual traditional japanese tanto is purely accidental.
 
BlondieAlmostEdge said:
Also lets be a little more accurate about that particular statement. CS bastardized the tanto into harsh angular chisel ground monstrosity the american tanto is today. Any resemblance between the new cs folders and an actual traditional japanese tanto is purely accidental.
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Yep! I think it was Bob Lum who popularized the American Tanto design, IMHO.

Cheers,
3Guardsmen
 
I only have two CS SRKs with me. They are not 2nds, and I paid $49.95 each for them. I got to handle them and "test" them a little before I laid down the cash. I reckon for $49.95, I got fifty dollars worth of knife.

I would reckon every major production mfr of knives have some model(s) that just don't appeal to everyone. If you buy something you aren't happy with, the only one you have to blame is yourself. I am certainly guilty of doing it in the past, and I don't just write off a particular brand because they don't have what I am interested in at the time. I would find it pretty unbelievable that a large company would risk serious litigation by infringing on someone else's design. Likely, they resemble each other somewhat, but I bet you can find at least one or two significant differences.

I do appreciate factual observations and reviews. If someone took the time and trouble to test a product and compare it to how others do for the money, that has a lot of value, especially if they know their business.

Then again, if all we did was post facts, how much "discussion" would go on here. Hmm, maybe all this dissing of product reps does have some entertainment value after all.;)
 
DngrRuss1 said:
No, it is not a rip-off of the Brian Tighe design.

The Black Sable is based on a combination of the scimitar and the tanto blade tip.

If one assumes that LT and CS are in the business of "riping off" the competition, then they are not aware of not only CS long history in the industry (some 25 years), or how much time and money LT puts into design, research, marketing, and legal issues (like making sure that a chosen name is not previousley owned) before a knife goes into the rather expensive process of production.

If we are going to start with the "rip off" label, let's not forget that CS introduced the tanto to the American market. Yet I do not hear you CS detractors jump up and say that all these other companies and custom makers "ripped off" CS designs. It's called a double standard, and it's not right.

I have the feeling that I am going to be one of the few defenders of CS. Let the flaming begin.
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No flaming, just some issues open for discussion:

Cold Steel paid Sal Glesser (Spyderco) royalties for their use of the pocket clip. That was honorable, but it was also 20 years ago.

Here are some more recent events:

1) Cold Steel spoke out about all the flaws of the Karambit design. A year and a half later, they produced one. Just had to get their share of the market I guess.

2) Cold Steel spoke out about the flaws in and cheapness of "400 series" steel. Now 420 and 440 steel ("sub-zero quenched" or not, its still "400 series") saturate their offerings.

3) Cold Steel blasted other knifemakers/companies for using references to the Military as a part of their sales pitch, and sang their own praises for never doing so. Cold Steel has nevertheless printed (in their Special Projects catalog) that the SRK was the "best selling, non-issue combat knife of the Iraqi war", and in their "More Proof" video, listed that the SRK was "issued to the SEALS at BUD/S".

What was that you were saying about "double standards"?


Cheers,
3Guardsmen
 
imho CS makes "ok" entry level folding knives ie voyager/etc, the ti lite is ok, some of CS fixed blades are pretty good, as far as being competition to tighe/reeves/etc, come on now, aint no way, apples /oranges imho.

i have never heard san mai spoken of as if its anything special, again, its "ok" but BG42 its not.

i try to aviod CS myself, dont like the way they advertise, dont like the warranties on there products (if its so tough why get picky w/the warranty???), dont like FRN handles (this knocks out most of them right here), just not crazy about the whole line of stuff.

FWIW for $300 or so i can think of a lot of other knives i would want vs anything CS has ever made or even thought of making.

if ya want a heavy duty version of a knife try extrema ratio folders.
 
I don't generally get into these things, but I'll venture an opinion. I think for the money you can get better than CS. You can get better warranties, better service, and a better company. I think LT is personally an @sshat. I saw the vids and I chuckled through them. For display I think their swords are interesting, but again because of the company I wouldn't buy them. As for a large company not risking lawsuits by doing something unethical, have you been around big business lately (question asked to nobody in particular)? There comes a point when a company will try it just because they know they have more money than the other guy to draw out the lawsuit process. As I recall, when the Sable came out Mr. Tighe was asked about it. He had seen a product example and it was in fact a rather uncanny likeness to his own Tighe stick. He was upset about it, but didn't feel he could do anything about it for the reason that CS would simply outlast him in a court case.

Now, there ARE only so many ways to design a folding pocket knife, however being a bloated self-important jerk is no way to conduct oneself. Buy their stuff if it floats your boat, but you can get better.

Sincerely,
Anthony
 
BlondieAlmostEdge said:
I'd bet a manix or chinook will do everything that these new cold steels can do and much more, for half the price.

What scientific foundation are you basing these claims about the toughness of San Mai III on? I'd love to see some charpy test results.
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I know as much as you, blondie: and if you read my posts, which are balanced to a fault, you will note that I went to war with a San Mai III blade. Look, this sort of nasty bitch-fight is unbelievable tiresome...I frankly cannot spare the time. We are all collectors and knife users--I base my opinion of a knife purely on elemental facts: lock integrity, construction, fit and finish, blade sharpness. And then I cut a whole bunch of stuff with the knife in question, test its blade for residual edge-holding, and then have it re-sharpened by a master bladesmith. Don't bother me with scientific horse-pucky; you should know full well that whatever data exists is either too technical for the average knife user or simply subjective and therefore likely to be disavowed by whatever knife maker happens to use steel "discredited" by that particular study. San Mai III is strong and dependable. BG-42, as I've stated exhaustively, is one of the best knife steels in use. What about these straightforward statements so offends you? If a reasonable person like me cannot have a civilized dialogue about the merits of one lonely knife sold by a company run by a bloated egomaniac, then no one can!!!! Pull yourself together.
 
LOL this thread is just as entertaining as all the other CS threads.
I must admit that "thebruce" is the only person I have seen on here that has, or will admit to having a high priced CS product.

I dont care for LT, his company, or his products. The final straw in my decision to never buy anything from that "bloated gasbag" was watching those horrible dvds. I couldnt even watch them all. The fact that I am somewhat of a steel snob ensures that I will never buy a CS product. You can wrap AUS 8 in whatever you like, and call it "zippidy doo-dah steel" for all I care, but that wont make it hold an edge better than AUS 8 (which does good, but isnt top end steel) The laminate just makes it more flexible and tougher.

Some people swear by their low end and carbon V stuff, which is fine by me, buy what you want. I prefer to line the pockets of people I can stand, and buy products with Top Grade materials and excellent customer service.
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
LOL this thread is just as entertaining as all the other CS threads.
I must admit that "thebruce" is the only person I have seen on here that has, or will admit to having a high priced CS product.

I dont care for LT, his company, or his products. The final straw in my decision to never buy anything from that "bloated gasbag" was watching those horrible dvds.
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But...but...but he's a NINJA! Didn't you see him slicing all that stuff up????!?!?!?!? He was so serious and focused, I could just picture him on an ancient battlefield, facing his moral enemy CARDBOARD! Surely you know the deep family hatred between him and cardboard. Not to mention his feud with hanging meat. I know it took my breath away to see him so nimbly slicing and dicing his ancient foes to bits. Plus he totally teaches you how to hunt boar and how a spear does way more damage than 12ga 00 buckshot!
 
Ok, so here we go again.

As is often the case on this forum when CS is brought up, you stop attacking the product and start attacking the man. When you attack the man, the comments are trite, snotty, not very creative and easy.

No, LT is not a ninja. He is a man who trains 10 to 12 hours a week, and sometimes more. He has done so for many years. He is a man who surrounds himself with some of the best fighters and instructors in the business of combat. He has more skill and education in the field of knives and combat than most. He has spent thousands of hours acruing and reading history of knives, steel information, product reviews, etc. Not to mention the hours and expense required in designing, testing and ultimately producing a line of product. Why does he do this much? Two basic reasons- 1- he genuinly loves it. 2- he wants everything he says and does to ring of truth and experience.

Many, if not most of those on this forum consider themselves knife knuts, the reality is that LT is the UberKnut. He is so commited and zealotous about his products and the company because he is a knife knut. Most of the staff are knuts or become one after immersing themselves in the CS atmosphere.

Many of you don't like CS, its marketing, or LT. Fine, you don't have to. But, as is often the case when one has a bias against a particular product or comapny, facts get clouded in subjectivism and opinion. As an example, if you are a Ford nut, you are likely to say that Chevy sucks. You are likely to take a subjective issue like design, engine choices, color, etc., and hold them up as facts rather than opinion. This is neither accurate nor a fair assesment.
 
DngrRuss1 said:
Ok, so here we go again.

As is often the case on this forum when CS is brought up, you stop attacking the product and start attacking the man. When you attack the man, the comments are trite, snotty, not very creative and easy.

No, LT is not a ninja. He is a man who trains 10 to 12 hours a week, and sometimes more. He has done so for many years. He is a man who surrounds himself with some of the best fighters and instructors in the business of combat. He has more skill and education in the field of knives and combat than most. He has spent thousands of hours acruing and reading history of knives, steel information, product reviews, etc. Not to mention the hours and expense required in designing, testing and ultimately producing a line of product. Why does he do this much? Two basic reasons- 1- he genuinly loves it. 2- he wants everything he says and does to ring of truth and experience.

Many, if not most of those on this forum consider themselves knife knuts, the reality is that LT is the UberKnut. He is so commited and zealotous about his products and the company because he is a knife knut. Most of the staff are knuts or become one after immersing themselves in the CS atmosphere.

Many of you don't like CS, its marketing, or LT. Fine, you don't have to. But, as is often the case when one has a bias against a particular product or comapny, facts get clouded in subjectivism and opinion. As an example, if you are a Ford nut, you are likely to say that Chevy sucks. You are likely to take a subjective issue like design, engine choices, color, etc., and hold them up as facts rather than opinion. This is neither accurate nor a fair assesment.
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I think you might need to get your humor detector some new batteries.
 
I am no big fan of Cold Steel's buisness practices or their so-so customer service. I find that for the most part I can find a better knife if I look for one.

That being said I own a few CS products. A old model Recon Tanto (not the kraton handled one) that I bought in 86 that has been a good knife. One of their 1st model Kuhkri's was strapped to my backpack on many hiking trips and limbed branches and trimmed bushes in my yard - retired at the moment for a Blackjack Kuhkri. I use to own a SRK that was a good knife but gave it to a friend who liked it.

Other products of theirs I like the look of - The Sword Cane is a inexpensive option for those looking for 1. Their swords seem to be decent for those who want a using sword. The Voyager folders are decent - I like the Rescue model.

The high end folders to me though are too much money for what they are. For that amount of money I can get custom with better fit and matierials.

Lynn Thompson, and his buisness practices/ethics, have annoyed people for a long time and as such generate a lot of negative reactions.
 
3Guardsmen said:
No flaming, just some issues open for discussion:

Cold Steel paid Sal Glesser (Spyderco) royalties for their use of the pocket clip. That was honorable, but it was also 20 years ago.

Here are some more recent events:

1) Cold Steel spoke out about all the flaws of the Karambit design. A year and a half later, they produced one. Just had to get their share of the market I guess.

2) Cold Steel spoke out about the flaws in and cheapness of "400 series" steel. Now 420 and 440 steel ("sub-zero quenched" or not, its still "400 series") saturate their offerings.

3) Cold Steel blasted other knifemakers/companies for using references to the Military as a part of their sales pitch, and sang their own praises for never doing so. Cold Steel has nevertheless printed (in their Special Projects catalog) that the SRK was the "best selling, non-issue combat knife of the Iraqi war", and in their "More Proof" video, listed that the SRK was "issued to the SEALS at BUD/S".

What was that you were saying about "double standards"?


Cheers,
3Guardsmen
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1- CS spoke out against the Karambit being the "flavor of the month" fighting knife. Are there inherent flaws in the Karambit? Yep. Are there inherent flaws in all other knives? Yep. What was really being stated were the reasons that the Karambit is not the pinnacle of fighting knives as is proposed by some Karambit nuts and some of their manufacturers. Does that mean that the Karambit has no place in the knife world and should be shunned by all knife users and enthusiasts? Of course not. Does that mean that CS would not ever make one? No, but they would not make one and then step up and tout its superiority over all other designs as a fighter, since they know better.

2- True, LT has made statements against certain grades of 400. However, a few things have changed or are again misunderstood. It is not just the grade, but primarily the heat treatment that makes a knife. Most of the manufacturers that use(d) 400 steels have lousy heat treatments. CS does not. As is proven in testing and on video, CS took a 440 steel, used their heat treatment, their sub-zero quenching process, and made a knife that could cut over 8 football fields of cardboard before it started losing its edge. The cutters gave up before the knife did. No other mass producer is getting that kind of performance out of 400 series steel. Did CS decry 400 stainlesses? Yes. Had they put it through their processing and bring it up to their performance standards yet? Not as such, but they eventually did and continue to use those steels to make knives that perform extremely high at a valuable price point.

3- Other knife makers and manufacturers use the military as a sales pitch because that's all they had- a pitch. CS has been selling knives to military and law enforcement personel for many years. The complaint by CS is regarding those products that will emblazon things like "special forces" or something similiar on an inferior product just because some yahoo will buy it since it has a tough logo. Go to any knife store or show and see the junk out there trying to capitolize on the military and the public's perception. Those are the products and companies that are disingenous. LT and CS try very hard to set a standard that meets and exceeds the requirements of military and law enforcement persons using the product on the ground. CS doesn't say, "look, we made a knife that says Marine Corps A** Kicker on the blade, so it must be tough- buy it buy it."- not yet sold. No, they state that they have sold a particular knife or knives to military personel in large numbers. Why have these knives been purchased (past tense)? Presumably because they do the job required and then some.
 
You know we could do a test. Cliff has already covered the Spyderco Manix. maybe we could raise funds to have him test one of these CS San Mai knives.

As far as I know there is no actual scientific information concerning the strength of a CS San Mai folder. (Well there might be, Sal might have had one broken just to see)

This means that all existing data is anecdotal and could be provided by those with an agenda, and even discounted, even your info TheBruce.

It's a shame really, just like the strider thread from months back, we where within a few dollars of purchasing a Strider and having it broken. Maybe we can find someone who cna "scientifically" break stuff for us.

Edit to say I found a place in maryland that offeres services that include:

ension, Compression, Torsion, and Flexural Testing:

* Provides modulus of elasticity, yield strength, proportional limit, ultimate strength, modulus of resilience, toughness, strain hardening exponent and strength coefficient, ductility and additional mechanical properties, some at elevated temperatures
 
DngrRuss1-

Are you actually Lynn Thompson, or an employee of Cold Steel? Sure seems like it, since every post you have ever made is defending/glorifying Cold Steel.

That endless spiel about LT and his biography leads me to the obvious conclusion that you are either the biggest CS Toady in history, or ol' LT himself.
:thumbdn:
If you are LT, that is really pathetic. If you are just a toady or on his payroll it is still pretty lame.
 
Really, Rat? Why? If what he says makes sense, if the facts are right, what the **** do you care who he is?

A lot of the dislike of LT is his arrogance. Do you really think he'd come here under an assumed name? Do you think HE'S scared of YOUR OPINION ???

The man's absolutely correct. Every thread on Cold Steel runs the same way.

1) Good working knives.
2) His cheap knives are garbage.
3) He makes stuff nobody else does.

4) Oh, yeah. He's got a big mouth.

Just for the record, I doubt I could watch the videos/DVDs every night of the week, but they are fun the first time around. Better than most of the ads on TV ... :D
 
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