Cold Steel Recon Tanto

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Rat Finkenstein said:
Why is it that the ethically unsound always try so desperately to rationalize their lack of character? Maybe a tiny shred of conscience flaring up?

QUICK! Drown it out with bluster and hyperbole!
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So let me see if I have this straight. You and you alone are qualified to judge the ethics of others? To what do you attribute this remarkable ability of yours?
 
Those Holy Ones Fit To Criticize Cold Steel decide you are unethical. They got that remarkable ability because they are not unethical people who buy shameful copies of custom knives.
 
Tblock1 said:
Those Holy Ones Fit To Criticize Cold Steel decide you are unethical. They got that remarkable ability because they are not unethical people who buy shameful copies of custom knives.
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Na, it's just that it's BLATENTLY OBVIOUS.
 
chuckschilling said:
Well, there you go. Must not be that valuable to Person B then.
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And that kind of schoolyard bully, finders-keepers attitude is why a lot of people are unhappy with companies that produce cheap knockoffs of someone else's design.

But then, I expect that would be lost on folks who are confusing legal codes and patents with ethics.
 
enderwiggin said:
And that kind of schoolyard bully, finders-keepers attitude is why a lot of people are unhappy with companies that produce cheap knockoffs of someone else's design.
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Grow up. That's business. It's not teddy bears and sunny days. If you seek to protect a design for your exclusive commercial use, you have to trademark and/or patent it, and protect that patent or trademark. Failure to do so places that design squarely in the public domain. That might not marry up with your utopian idyll, but that's just how intellectual property laws work - period. Don't like it? Write your congressman. But vilifying Cold Steel for behaving in a fully legal fashion is at once infantile and pointless.
 
Let me state I like Fallkniven and own a few.

But in the context of this argument can the A1 and NL1 be seen as imitators of the CS SRK and Trailmaster?
 
If the people are unhappy with the "rip-offs" that should be good because they will buy the originals, right? Cold steel has done nothing wrong, in fact copying a design as long as you don't exactly copy it is a tribute to the original. If the original creator doesn't think so, sue.
 
chuckschilling said:
Grow up. That's business. It's not teddy bears and sunny days. If you seek to protect a design for your exclusive commercial use, you have to trademark and/or patent it, and protect that patent or trademark. Failure to do so places that design squarely in the public domain. That might not marry up with your utopian idyll, but that's just how intellectual property laws work - period. Don't like it? Write your congressman. But vilifying Cold Steel for behaving in a fully legal fashion is at once infantile and pointless.
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Again, you're confusing legal codes with ethics. I don't think anyone here is arguing that Cold Steel is doing anything illegal, they're arguing that intellectual property theft is unethical.

And again, it seems you're arguing that anything that can legally be done is fully ethical, which is why I pointed out that some individuals have difficulty discerning the difference between "legal" and "ethical."
 
chuckschilling said:
So let me see if I have this straight. You and you alone are qualified to judge the ethics of others? To what do you attribute this remarkable ability of yours?
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No, the point is, you and your ilk are sadly lacking in character. You can't see it because concepts such as honor and integrity are foreign to you.

Tblock1 said:
Those Holy Ones Fit To Criticize Cold Steel decide you are unethical. They got that remarkable ability because they are not unethical people who buy shameful copies of custom knives.
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Same response as above. It really isn't that hard to Not be a dirtbag.

Tony_A said:
The ethically unsound don't understand that just because something is "legal" it can still be the wrong thing to do.

To them, if it's legal, then it's OK.
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Exactly. Cuttthroats like LT and his minions are why we have so much government regulation instead of "Laissez-faire" capitalism. Scumbags eagerly exploiting every "legal" avenue to profit off the work of others.
 
I put far more importance in ethics than law. But I just don't see it as that obvious that cold steel's are exact or even close copies of any other knives.
 
"No, the point is, you and your ilk are sadly lacking in character. You can't see it because concepts such as honor and integrity are foreign to you."

"It really isn't that hard to Not be a dirtbag."

Man, so that's what "ethical" people are like. Giving insults against people they don't even know who have different opinions. Glad I'm not in your class of "ethical".
 
Confederate said:
Yep, that was the big question I had. As of late, I've become fascinated with the relationship between blade and handles, not only on fixed knives, but folders. Spyderco puts a nice S30V blade in its Native, but the frame is a fiberglass-reinforced plastic. Nice deal for the price and Zytel lasts practically forever. In many cases, though, the frame and handle material plainly upstage the blade. The first CS Recon 1s had a great lock and frame, but the 440A steel blade was a real turn off. People were paying more for the frame.

I've sometimes wondered why a third-party knife industry doesn't take off. You can get different barrels for guns, different lenses for cameras, drop-in LED lamps for flashlights. So why can't a person sit down and order different blades for their knives. As much as I like the new Recon 1s, I prefer the old frames over the new G10. That steel reinforced Zytel often acted as a worry stone for me, and I liked rubbing my thumb along the smooth, cool surface. The G10 grippy stuff they have now, conversely, would be good for grinding dead skin off my feet! Yeeeesh.

If anyone knows the reason that Thompson made his G.I. Tanto in the same image and likeness of Strider's tanto, I'd love to hear the story. I looked at my own G.I. Tanto earlier today and thought it was quite uncomfortable to hold and cut with. I've sharpened the top of the blade, too, and though I think it's well worth the eighteen dollars I paid for it, I again thought how much better the design could have been had Thompson just changed a few things. Had the knife been just a tad longer, narrower at the tip than the hilt and a rounded choil that would fit most index fingers, not only would he have given it a distinctive look, he would have, I think, made a better knife. The only thing I can figure is that he had something else in mind.

Oh, and something else. Before this one instance, had Strider and Thompson ever had any problems? Most of what I've found on the Internet are references to the feud. I've never read statements by either man. Does anyone know of a link where I can read something about the entire incident?

Thanks.


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Lynn took a patten out on his original design of the American tanto design Stuart Taylor did the first knock off and when Lynn sued him the courts through it out.
Thompson seems to think that anyone that is making an American Tanto is ripping him off and he feels it is ok to do it back to them.
According to Mike Stewart he talked to Bob Lum and Bob considered Thompson's design to be different then his.

Mike Stewart did a very good description of the differences between the two knife design on the Jersee devil forum
 
enderwiggin said:
Again, you're confusing legal codes with ethics. I don't think anyone here is arguing that Cold Steel is doing anything illegal, they're arguing that intellectual property theft is unethical.
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How many times and in how many different ways does this need to be said? IT IS NOT THEFT TO USE A DESIGN THAT IS IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN!!!! Get it? If you design something and don't protect that design according to the relevant laws, IT ISN'T YOUR EXCLUSIVE DESIGN ANYMORE. It is free for anyone to use however they see fit. Why is that such a difficult concept for you to grasp?

And again, it seems you're arguing that anything that can legally be done is fully ethical, which is why I pointed out that some individuals have difficulty discerning the difference between "legal" and "ethical."
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No, what you're really doing is arguing that YOUR unilateral definition of "ethical" behavior applies to whomever you see fit to apply it. Open your eyes and look around you. Every day, in every way, we see products that are very similar to other products - even products that are already trademarked and patented. Yet for some reason Cold Steel alone receives your enmity and condemnation?

I would argue that many, perhaps yourself, have a personal disliking for Lynn Thompson, and work backwards from there to invent "ethical" rationalizations for your personal dislike. Whatever gets you through the night, but your argument isn't logical or rational. It's just an emotional response to someone you don't like.
 
Tblock1 said:
"No, the point is, you and your ilk are sadly lacking in character. You can't see it because concepts such as honor and integrity are foreign to you."

"It really isn't that hard to Not be a dirtbag."

Man, so that's what "ethical" people are like. Giving insults against people they don't even know who have different opinions. Glad I'm not in your class of "ethical".
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I certainly didn't force you to expose your ignorance and twisted world view. If you walk around with your underwear on the outside of your pants, how long would it take for someone to point it out? Would you take offense that they pointed out your error in dressing?
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
No, the point is, you and your ilk are sadly lacking in character. You can't see it because concepts such as honor and integrity are foreign to you.
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Because folks like you cannot raise rational, intelligent arguments supported by anything other than emotional, your arguments always seem to devolve into insults.

Sadly lacking in character? No, sir, it is YOU who is lacking - in judgment, discernment, and intelligence. Hopefully you will not procreate and perpetuate your illogic upon further generations.

Same response as above. It really isn't that hard to Not be a dirtbag.
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It seems to have eluded you, however.

Exactly. Cuttthroats like LT and his minions are why we have so much government regulation instead of "Laissez-faire" capitalism. Scumbags eagerly exploiting every "legal" avenue to profit off the work of others.
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Yet another non sequitur from the king of non sequiturs.
 
Tblock1 said:
Deal in facts, not statements of emotion like calling LT a cutthroat.
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I'll try.

It's like this. Lets say I invent something but don't (for whatever reason) patent it.

Several competitors come along and make a similar product that uses/clones/copies whatever my design.

Most of them give credit to me for the original design.

However one of them not only doesn't do this, on their sales website they claim that they actually invented it.

Is that ethical?

(That seems to be the story of the "Americanized Tanto" invented by Bob Lum and later, Cold Steel.)
 
Tony_A said:
I'll try.

It's like this. Lets say I invent something but don't (for whatever reason) patent it.

Several competitors come along and make a similar product that uses/clones/copies whatever my design.

Most of them give credit to me for the original design.

However one of them not only doesn't do this, on their sales website they claim that they actually invented it.

Is that ethical?

(That seems to be the story of the "Americanized Tanto" invented by Bob Lum and later, Cold Steel.)
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Where are the facts? You are stating an allegory and hyperbole then claiming at the end it is fact.
 
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