Cold Steel Recon Tanto

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It can be argued by S&W that these inexpensive knock-offs cost them business, but it's difficult for a custom knife maker to argue that a Cold Steel design took money from his pockets.

How can you feel that S&W can argue that it cost them business but that the knockoffs by CS hasn't cost other makers , who make the original design , business ?

Does it matter what industry it is ? Knockoff's suck , plain and simple.
The knockoff's are inferior and thus hurt business. It DOES NOT matter what industry.

I was not claiming Taurus did or did not copy S&W , they may have , however , there might have been an agreement PRIOR to the sell off of the parent company. I admit , I honestly don't know the story after the sale. Either way , copies are just that , cheap imitation copies.
 
Taurus bought the South American S&W plant and the rights to produce the model that were made there.

On a different note, all knock offs as you call them are not inferior to the originals. Many knock offs through the years have been improved designs of the original. I doubt that most if any knock offs are illegal, most makers wouldn't take the chance. As has been mentioned here already, if one does not want a knock off there is nobody demanding that they buy one. I mind my business and others can do the same.
 
as long as there are ignorant people and those simply lacking in the ethics department, Cold Steal will have no problem selling knives.
 
Why should you have heard about it? Who the he** are you? I have no Idea. Just now hearing about it.? Well its been talked about in knife circles for years. Along with a lot of other designs borough out by cs. Where the heck have you been, who ever you are?

Stole a phone call. Probably. But I very much doubt Bob ever called LT! One thing is for sure, your trying to stir up old crap that is none of your business. If you have have no dog in this, please stay out of it. I let it rest years ago. If you take LT's wirj for anything, well that's all on you. Most of the knife world doesn't follow your thinking. By the way, that is a Loveless design on the srk handle as well. You just don't get it do you. You would argue with facts right in front of your face. I give up. Not worth my time.

Let's see... Facts:

Fact: Michael B. (not my place to release his full name here- but you can contact CS to verify this info) went to work at CS in '91 in the graphics dept. He is currently the head of the graphics dept. One of his first jobs in '91 was to "take the CS tanto specs in 7 1/2 inch and put it into an SRK/Master Hunter handle." I saw the original drawings this past week. Mike remembers very well being given this job.

Fact: the Recon Tanto was being advertised in late '91, and is featured in the Shot Show book for '92. I saw the book. That Shot Show was in New Orleans. To LT's knowledge (and he was still researching when last I spoke to him), that was the first show he attended in New Orleans. Is this the same show where you claimed to meet him and he stole your design? Cuz the Recon Tanto was featured in his booth at the same show- thus it's availability within "weeks" as you stated. So, did he steal it psychically?

Fact: While Bob Lum may have beaten LT chronologically to the dance with the Tanto, but, would most custom makers and mass producers would not have the success that they do now with their tantos if LT had not spent somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 million dollars advertising and promoting the tanto, starting back in the 80's when no one was marketing them to the masses. CS brought the tanto to the main stream knife world and LT promoted its superiority for utility and combat to a community that generally thought it more exotic than useful. So, instead of making a false claim that he stole your design, how about offering him a "thank you" for every tanto you have sold, since he did the advertising for you.

Fact: LT has not only used the designs of custom makers- and if you look at the CS or SP catalogs, you will see acknowledgments of many makers- but he has PAID for the right to make said knives. Now, as for older design knives- many ore in the public domain and patents have run out. Now, if you do not understand what that means, look it up. That being said, however, let's take a look at 2 examples- the R1 Military Classic and the Tru-Balance throwers.

The R1 Military Classic is CS's version of a Randall knife. LT approached Randall and said that he was interested in making his interpretation of said knife. He offered to pay a fee to Randall for said use- to prevent any hard feelings- even though the knife design was in the public domain. They were not interested in either LT's money, or giving him their blessing to produce his knife. He did remind them that it was in the public domain, so he really didn't have to get their permission or offer them anything, but he chose to make said offer anyway. Again, they were not interested. Now, is that stealing? I think not.

The Tru-Balance throwers that have recently been dropped from CS's product line, were also designs that were in the public domain as they originated in the late 40's. Harry McEvoy's heirs objected to the knives being made- so LT offered them a decent chunk of change to, again, prevent any hard feelings. They accepted, even though he was not under any legal obligation to do so since the designs were in the public domain. Does that sound like the behavior of a guy who is has the reputation you purport (as well as others here on BF) as someone who just steals from custom makers?

Now, as for having no dog in this fight, you are simply wrong. LT and his crew are friends of mine. As for my anonymity, while I didn't really relish my identity being exposed here since I knew that I would be saying provocative things, others here have figured out who I am and if you do a little research, you can too.

I took a lot of notes when I met with LT last week and have some questions for you. But later. It is coming up on 2am and I like to think a little clearer when I inquire.


Oh, and 3G- you know... luv you man... no, no... really ... I mean it...
 
Well, as I said previously, the handle designs of the Recon Tanto and the SRK look pretty basic to me, and I don't see any close "Loveless" resemblance, so I'm a bit confused as to what the big fuss is about regarding that issue.

That said, I'd like to point out a few things that DngrRuss1 said that made me a bit curious.
Fact: While Bob Lum may have beaten LT chronologically to the dance with the Tanto, but, would most custom makers and mass producers would not have the success that they do now with their tantos if LT had not spent somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 million dollars advertising and promoting the tanto, starting back in the 80's when no one was marketing them to the masses.
If it is a "fact" that "Bob Lum may have beaten LT chronologically to the dance with the tanto," why does Cold Steel advertise that they invented it? Another member provided the following from Cold Steel's site:
(Cut + paste from Cold Steel's website: )

"There isn’t a person working in the knife industry today that knows more about the Tanto than Cold Steel does. It was, after all, Cold Steel who invented and popularized this knife style in the early 1980’s"

The R1 Military Classic is CS's version of a Randall knife. LT approached Randall and said that he was interested in making his interpretation of said knife. He offered to pay a fee to Randall for said use- to prevent any hard feelings- even though the knife design was in the public domain. They were not interested in either LT's money, or giving him their blessing to produce his knife. He did remind them that it was in the public domain, so he really didn't have to get their permission or offer them anything, but he chose to make said offer anyway. Again, they were not interested. Now, is that stealing? I think not.
I, like you, don't think that's stealing, at all. I am, however, rather curious as to why Randall was not interested in "giving him their blessing" to produce his version of their knife, especially since he took the time to ask them before he produced it. But when I see posts like the following, I can begin to understand why they might have had some reservations.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3871236&postcount=416
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3863927&postcount=389
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3877207&postcount=422

Oh, and 3G- you know... luv you man... no, no... really ... I mean it...

Your love for me not withstanding (but much appreciated:o), DngrRuss1, and since you're apparently very much back "in the know," were you ever able to ascertain, as you stated you were in the process of doing, whether Lynn Thompson and Cold Steel were involved in hiring of the private investigator that discovered the dirt on Mick Strider? When we last spoke of your endeavor, you stated that Lynn Thompson was contacted by the PI investigating Strider, and I asked you why on earth a PI investigating Mick Strider would have contacted Lynn Thompson. I don't recall you ever answering that question.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3437514&postcount=81
LT and CS did not pay one dime to any PI to dig up info on another company.

A PI did approach LT with info on another manufacturer. LT, from what my source says, told the PI he would talk to him if he had something concrete to show him- but did not pay him any money, nor did he offer to employ this PI to dig up any info.

Apparently the PI, or someone related to this issue, posted something on another forum, and, like a game of "telephone", suddenly LT is seeking out a PI and paying him to garner information aganst competitors.

Didn't happen.

For those who like reading a whole lot:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401076
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=373633
And last, but certainly not least, the 50 page mega-thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=491925

Regards,
3G
 
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How can you feel that S&W can argue that it cost them business but that the knockoffs by CS hasn't cost other makers, who make the original design, business?
One of the reasons mass production has been such a huge success is that if every knife, every gun and every other product for that matter, had only been produced one by one, even the cheapest .357 mag would be beyond the reach of many, many people.

Although Smith & Wessons cost more than Taurus revolvers, they don't cost many, many times more. Thus, the greater the price of the "original" (in this case), the more a copy will encroach on it. Obviously, someone who wants a $25,000 knife isn't going to settle for a $500 Cold Steel copy, no matter how close the copy or how good the materials. Thus, someone who isn't willing or able to pay the greater amount isn't going to contribute a dime to to Strider, Loveitz, Loveless, Reeves and the many, many others. But S&W revolvers are much closer in price to Taurus, Rossi and Llama, and the superiority in quality and performance can be argued to be well worth the difference.

In short, some people can afford original paintings, while many more can only afford the prints. Still, a work of art can be protected by copyright. Right now, DVDs are affordable to nearly everyone, which makes buying cheap Chinese copies an easy ethical issue. But if DVDs in the US were going for $600+, the ethical aspects would be greatly blurred.

Movie actors, producers and "arteeests" wring every dime out of their productions as possible, and there's nothing wrong with that. If a bar or waiting room has a TV set and shows movies or other entertainment without commercials, they have to pay royalties. But the authors of books and the publishers of magazines in those same places are just out of luck, because copyright law does not offer them the same protection. People can loan books and magazines out, put them literally anywhere and no one makes an issue out of it. One may make a print from a known artist and the artist can complain that the copying process doesn't capture the subtle nuances of his or her work, the colors, the brilliance, but still people buy them.

In this country, there are only three ways for people to right wrongs: 1) go through the courts; 2) hire a couple of thugs to "explain" your point of view to people who rip off your designs; or 3) appeal to the ethics of people who support those who rip you off. As far as I can tell, number 3 is by far the least effective, certainly less effective than a horse's head in Lynn Thompson's bed. But in that kind of a situation, Thompson can't state his side of the issue. Vito and Mario couldn't be less interested. Only in recourses 1 and 3 does Thompson have input, and only if he has to.
 
so let me get this straight
if Item A is $500 and the knockoff is $300 then the original designer has a legit gripe.

If item A is $10,000 and the knockff is $300 then the original designer has no gripe ?

That has to be the most ridiculous reasoning I have heard. If you copy someone elses work , without approval and without giving credit , it's wrong , plain and simple , dollar value does NOT make a difference.

Does it happen in every industry , yes ! but it is still wrong no MATTER how you look at it , you might not be able to see it.

appeal to the ethics of people who support those who rip you off.
While it appears to be lost on you , with your own unique view of it being ok for CS , trust me , plenty notice. Hearing all the snickers and chuckles at the SHOT show this year , told me that plenty are taking notice.
 
Just saw this thread, and wanted to address a few points with my utterly useless opinions. I'm not going to try and put names to all the quotes.

Also, if anyone has the newer AUS8 version and has given it a good field testing, how did it hold up in edge retention and in strength?

Some Recons managed to be broken by some users on occasion, but that was primarily when the steel was Carbon V

I don't have an answer for you as I haven't owned any AUS8 CS knives. All mine have been Carbon V or San Mai III. One thing to note when researching Carbon V performance, consider Camillus made Beckers performance too. The steel in the Carbon V knives and the Beckers were identical. Made by the same company with the same heat treat.

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On a side note, those two knives are knock-offs of.

1. The Lovett Combat Tanto.

I can't for the life of me figure out how the Recon Tanto is a copy of your knife. Other than an American tanto point on a long blade, they are entirely different knives. How is the Recon Tanto more similar to your knife than an original CS tanto? No disrespect, but I don't see it.

2. A Strider Combat Knife

The Strider rip off is obvious. It's also obvious that it was done on purpose as a jab towards Strider. Like someone stated earlier, if Thompson was doing it for any other reason he could have improved on it. Whether this is ethical or not is on one's self to decide. That said, if I see an armed robber get mugged for his loot while leaving the scene of the crime, I'm not going to feel sorry for him. Strider's owners get no sympathy from me.

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This was just weeks before the release.

As has been stated before, it would probably take more than a few weeks to go from drawings to distribution.

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The Recon tanto has the Loveless Grip designed by my Mentor Bob Loveless

Yes, the SRK and RT grips are an exact copy of the Loveless grip you posted as a comparison other than shape, materials, and tang. Wait, what?

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If you have have no dog in this, please stay out of it. I let it rest years ago.

Apparently.

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Don't you really mean " or should Cold Steel find another carbon steel to have someone else make the knife out of ? " Since they manufacture...well , nothing themselves ?

Of course, that's true. Spyderco, Benchmade, Buck, and most others import a lot of their blades. Do they get held to the same standard?

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There is no doubt that Cold steel has stolen some designs. I love my Black Sable, but it would be foolish to not acknowledge it as a Tighe design. In this case though, I just don't see it.
 
hitchmo.jpg


an apollogy to Mr Lovett,
it would appear my one and only custom is a copy of one of yours.
Sorry. I didn't know.
 
So let me get this straight; if Item A is $500 and the knockoff is $300 then the original designer has a legit gripe. If item A is $10,000 and the knockff is $300 then the original designer has no gripe? That has to be the most ridiculous reasoning I have heard. If you copy someone else's work, without approval and without giving credit, it's wrong, plain and simple, dollar value does NOT make a difference.
As I stated, the designers have three options: 1) courts; 2) Mario and Vito; or make your case in the public arena. You're correct that it happens in every industry, but if only the designers are represented, there can be no debate.

How much originality can there be in a knife? If Item A is $3,250 and the knockoff is $300, how much does it cost the designer of Item A? Legally, it would be difficult to make a case. Just because it puts money into the pockets of the manufacturer of the knockoff does not mean that it cost the designer a cent. Those who buy the knockoff will never buy a knife from the original designer, though he may later down the road as he gets into the hobby. And in the end isn't it all about money?

The idea that every square centimeter of a knife is carefully taken into consideration and planned is a bit of fantasy. Like the cologne that is said to land a guy any babe he wants, it's more wishful thinking. A knife is only a knife. It's a handle and a blade. You can make it of the finest materials and polish every square millimeter until there's not a single blemish, but when someone needs a knife to work with, he just isn't going to see the performance match the price difference.

Well, the manufacturer of the knockoff could offer compensation to the designer, and here I think is where the real issue is, but what would that do to the price of mainstream knives? As I said earlier, I could have improved on Strider's combat tanto design in five minutes with a sheet of paper. I'm only guessing, but I think Lynn Thompson was making a statement with his G.I. Tanto. First, the tanto was something that Lynn Thompson made popular. It wasn't original, but like anything else it had to be marketed. When Strider came along and said, I'm gonna charge three hundred and twenty five bucks for this stamped blade, it's entirely possible that Lynn said, not if I can give them pretty much the same thing for twenty-five bucks! In that case, yes, I think Thompson did cost Strider money, but I also think he wanted to provide people, particularly soldiers, with a reasonably priced alternative and show Strider to be somewhat of a charlatan. (Both knives are blocky and uncomfortable, in my opinion, and either could have been streamlined and improved easily; however, if Thompson was guilty of "intellectual" theft and slander, he's got deep enough pockets that Mickey Berger should have gone for for the big bucks if he'd had a case.) Both his combat tanto and Thompson's G.I. Tanto have been tested side by side, and Strider's high end knife showed little, if any, performance superiority.

I don't think the knife industry would be where it is today without Cold Steel. Like them or not, they've had a great influence on many of the designs they're now accused of copying. It's also fairly clear to me that many independent knife companies are appreciably better off today because of that influence.

...it is still wrong no MATTER how you look at it ... While it appears to be lost on you, with your own unique view of it being okay for CS, trust me, plenty notice. Hearing all the snickers and chuckles at the SHOT show this year, told me that plenty are taking notice.
And that's how it should be. People ultimately vote with their wallets and you'd probably be amazed at how many knife owners don't attend, or care about, the SHOT Show. Ethically, the case has not been made against Thompson. It's one thing to talk in generalities, but good heavens, the knife industry is no different than any other. Just recently the Air Force's lease on a computer program expired. They found this out after the software abruptly stopped working. Angered that a "time bomb" had been included in the software, resulting in its self destruction, rather than extend the lease, they had SAIC backward engineer the software, removing the self destruct. The original company sued the Air Force, crying foul. The Air Force, however, realizing that software that suddenly stopped working could be a security issue, exercised the law whereby the government could only be sued with the government's consent—and they weren't giving it. Was this wrong? Hell, yes, but I can understand the government's point about software with a hidden self destruct sequence.

Like it or not, Spyderco, Cold Steel, Kershaw, Benchmade, Buck, CRKT and others help keep knife making a thriving business, including the one-man-shop. If it weren't for them, many people never would have been attracted to knives in the first place. Only by providing inexpensive, attractive knives can these businesses stay in business, and Cold Steel is one of the biggest. Unlike Spyderco and Benchmade (both outstanding companies, BTW), Cold Steel's knives lack a single, distinctive look. My point is, without them, you wouldn't have the vibrant market there is today—and Lynn Thompson has made no bones about providing distinctive "designer"-type knives at affordable prices. The designers, though, can't have it both ways. Like it or not, Cold Steel's has a symbiotic relationship with the designers, whether the designers care to admit it or not.


CSRipoff.jpg


Inspiration or ripoff, both or neither? The CS Black Sable is one of the examples
given of a blatant ripoff. But knives are made up of blades and frame/handles.
Certainly there isn't a ripoff here of the frame. The overall shape of the knife
is similar, but upon close inspection the frames on both knives are not very similar
at all. The blades, too, while being similar, are quite different. The Black Sable
blade is not nearly as upswept, and much of it's beauty is in the chiseled strip
at the top, giving it a distinct look. While it may have taken inspiration from
the Brian Tighe Stick Frame Lock (top), the Black Sable is not a frame lock,
and the blade has a distinct difference in both look and feel. Someone buying
a Black Sable might very well buy a Brian Tighe Stick Frame Lock in the
future, but it's unlikely that Tighe would lose any money over Thompson's
Black Sable. This is what makes it sticky ethically.
 
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It's a little silly to imply that people who buy cold steel knives are either stupid or not ethical. I am in my 60's and have been a knife nut for decades. However until I joined this forum, I had never heard of any of the custom makers you guys talk about or even LT. Most knife buyers have no idea of any of this earth shaking information. Like I was and still am, If I see a knife that I like and can afford it, I buy it. IMO 90 percent of the knives sold are in this category.
 
The point of my picture of my custom is to show that custom makers are probably as guilty as anyone of 'borrowing' designs'. IMHO manufacturers even though guilty do less damage than other custom makers.
Have I done Randall out of a sale by buying CS's ODA and R1 Classic? Well no because lottery win aside I could never afford the genuine article. Same I'm sorry to say with the Lovett/Loveless knives. Which even if I could afford would never use because of the price.
CS in producing these 'copies/tributes' at least allow the designs to be had and used, my OSS is a great show off knife and at the archery course is often used to show the hanging rope cut, which always impresses, would I do this with the Lovett/Randall?
Wouldn't even take it out the house......
 
Yes thats what I like about the cold steel knives...you are not afraid to take them out and use and abuse them. The genuine knife is the type that you would often never let it leave it's collector's case and use gloves every time you touch it.
 
One area where I think Cold Steel really shines is in knives with blades greater than about three inches. For some reason, companies like Spyderco have been far too preoccupied with small knives, and it's one reason I'm not a big fan of the company. They have a few models that get up to four inches, but they don't offer many at all and even their rust free H1 Tasman Salt comes only in 3 inches. For many jobs around salt water, this size of a knife is pathetic, and it goes for upwards of seventy bucks. Kershaw and CRKT offer 4-inchers (or just approaching 4-inches). There's no way I'm not going to buy the Voyagers or Gunsites that come in more desirable blade lengths, because no one else has them and no one else would sell them for the prices Cold Steel does. Imagine a 5-inch folder with AUS8/VG1 stainless with a polished blade and a lockback design going for under a hundred bucks! Imagine a 6-inch folder with a polished blade of the same steel going for under a hundred bucks. Someone who works around the docks, or around boats, or in warehouses and such can really appreciate having a knife that meets their own requirements other than some knife executive who has a whole line of 2-inch and 3-inch knives, with a couple of offerings in 4-inches for those who may have extended needs. So when I say that Cold Steel has had a largely positive influence on the entire knife industry, I'm not joking or overstating it in the least. As for myself, I never would have developed an interest in knives has it not been for Cold Steel. My everyday carry knife is a 5-inch Gunsite and a Fenix L2D flashlight, so size is nothing to me. And if I were to carry a folding knife in the wilderness, I wouldn't even consider a 3-inch knife, which leaves out a great many knives. I like fixed knives like anyone else, but having a 5- or 6-inch folder is a smart bet for anyone who hikes or camps.

ColdSteelTantos_3Sm_2.jpg


Some people don't like tantos and they don't like big knives, but
I'm not one of them. I've often wondered how many people would
order Chris Reeves' Sebenzas if they came in a good 5-inch blade.



ColdSteelPro-Lite_2_Small.jpg


Cold Steel not only makes their knives big, they make them tough.
This Pro-Lite could likely pry open a door in an emergency. And their
serrated edge pattern allows even 440A steel to keep a long, sharp
cutting edge.



When you have companies like Cold Steel constantly energizing the industry with new offerings of attractive knives at affordable prices, even the designers win in the end. And most of them will never have to worry about Cold Steel costing them a cent.

I've said all I will on this topic, but will continue to read the ongoing debate in this and other threads.
 
I'm as big a supporter of intellectual property rights as anyone. I think, however, that if someone truly has stolen from you, and if you're going to post on the Internet repeatedly saying so, you really ought to be prepared either to sue for that theft, or just let the matter go.
 
I have never heard so much jail house lawyer crap in all my life.
No to mention all the down right either lies, or ignorance coming through.

Just a few.

Strider Stamped blades. BS. Strider blades are not stamped out! Water jet, or laser cut. Yes. Big difference. The Steels we use cannot be stamped out. Just more assumptions being given as fact by people who have no idea in hell what they are talking about.

The accusations toward Mick Strider have never been substantiated that I have seen.

LT just saw another knife to rip off and used his accusations to draw attention away from his own unethical behavior.

LT has never been shown to be unethical,.??? He has been shown to be unethical for decades. Where in the world have you been? There is no where deep enough for you to stick your head in the sand to have missed it all.

LT invented the tanto. No he didn't. It has been around for centuries.

LT invented the americanized tanto. No he didn't. Bob Lum did.

LT popularized the Tanto. No he didn't. He was behind by a decade or two. And that was here in the us. As I already pointed out, it was popular for centuries before anyone ever heard of LT. All you have to do is go through to old Knives digest books, and you will see that they were very hot before LT ever thought of bringing them out.
I remember the Boot Knife craze years ago. Next the Tanto craze. Then came the Liner Lock, Frame Lock, and Tactical. Lt didn't invent or popularize any of them. He only followed and copied. Like a good little money grubber.

Why don't people sue. Hell, I personally knew Harvey Mcburnette, and the other tow fellows who developed the forward lock. WT Fuller, and Dick Dorough. They sent the pattern and design to Gerber. kershaw and Al Mar both worked for Gerber. Gerber didn't produce the knives But Both Kershaw, and Mar did when they left Gerber. The three fellows who developed the knives sued. It took 25 years to settle. TWENTY FIVE YEARS!!!

I could fill a book of such stories. But you already know that. Not to mention it cost them more than they had. and years of effort that would have been better spent making knives. Just not worth it. But they did get paid. Finally.

All about Money. Half right. Once again, the jail house lawyers have all the answers. Without knowing much of anything about the Custom Knife Business.
We are small one man shops. We can't afford to sue. Hell we're lucky to eat! And now lawyers usually won't take such cases on contingency for a one man operation against a large corporation. Oh, wait. Some one earlier said that CS wasn't a large company. but just a post or two above, it was pointed out that they were! which way fits best for all the augments here. Pick which either one fits your arguments at the moment.

Yes it is all a bout the money for LT. And every one knows it. For the Custom Maker it isn't'. I've never known a single Custom Maker worth a crap that went into the business to make a killing. Right the opposite. A lot of spouses give the makers a hard time. A lot of divorces over the business. You see, we do it because we love Knives. We love them so much that we just have to make them ourselves. All of you experts that have bought a few knives over the years know so much more than any of us. I mean what the hell do we know. We only use them. Collect them. Buy them. Design them, and make them. That is why we are so unqualified to know what the hell is going on in knives today. You learn so much more at the counter at wal-mart.
We put more research into a given steel for a given design that most of you will ever understand. Yet you know so much better. We live in the world of knives with sharks like LT every day. We don't just buy one every once in a while and think we know everything there is to know!

So why does it bother us if it's not the money? To us, our Knives are like our children. We know each and every one we have ever make.
When one leaves we wish it only good for all its' life. When one makes a hit, we are like proud parents at the Friday night game. When one is ripped off, it feels like one of our children have been kidnapped. Something of our soul has been ripped out. You, the user, purchaser, collector can never in a million years know what it feels like to sweat and toil for lousy wages, trying to make your mark just to have some one tell the world that they did all the work. They gave that knife a life. Knowing all the time that they had nothing to do with it what so ever other than lie!

And you set here and say that we don't even have the to say nothing about it?
LT and others like him have every right in the world to steal our creations. Lie to the world to make a profit, and yet you tell us we have no right to even so much as let it bother us. We are to keep out mouths shut completely. well I for one am not a member of the sheeple race. What gives you the right to tell anyone that aren't allowed to say what is on their mind. To tell the truth. this is an open forum buddy. If you don't like other people exercising their rights, too bad. You sure don't seem to have a problem telling others what they can and cannot do. One would get more satisfaction talking to a brick wall. You just don't' get it. Slime is Slime no matter how much you love his rip offs.

We don't' want his money. Wouldn't have it if it was offered. but it would have been nice if he had had the common decency to say, you know, I like this. I think it will be popular. Mind if I make a few and see what they do?

Thats all we want. For our work to succeed. For our knives to be popular and appreciated. And if at all possible, if they are, for the world to know that they are out children. Fruits or our minds. Our labors. Is that so much to ask for the artist that creates the art. If you put a fine painting into your copying machine, is it still not a fine piece of art? Is it now the work of the copying machine? Is a print, a fake, a counter fit the same as the original? I think not. And now we are being told that it all OK because it is cheaper! Tell the Mint That. Tell Rolex that. He a lier and a cheat, and if yo can't understand what these thing mean, then as far as I'm concerned, Your a complete Moron.

Or do you understand? Ii really don't think anyone here is that stupid. But I could be wrong.

Just wondering!
 
I wonder just how many knife designs are actually patented?

That's the thing. If you don't get a patent/trademark, your rights to protect your design are severely limited. And not everything is patentable. I doubt a handle design is; I very seriously doubt a blade profile is.

LT invented the tanto. No he didn't. It has been around for centuries.

And that's why. Every blade profile you can come up with, someone else has before, at some point during the MILLENNIA knives have been in use.

Knife features are a different story. The sub-hilt may have been patentable. The Spyderco opening hole, I believe Spyderco has sued to protect. Emerson's Wave I know is patented, because there's the patent # on the knife in my hand.

Of course, CS has ripped off the Wave as well, on their AK47 and now the Rajah and Spanish series knives. (Is Emerson suing? I dunno.)

I don't see how anyone can claim that CS is not unethical. But they haven't directly ripped off all their designs. Who did they steal the Rajah from, or the Scimitar?

BTW, I met LT a few times at the old Soldier of Fortune show here in Vegas; he seemed like a nice guy.
 
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