Cold Steel Sisu

For the price of a CS Sisu (a little over 200 bucks) you can get a Charles May handmade knife with a Scandi grind. (below) http://charlesmayknives.blademakers.com/

As you can tell Cold Steel isn't well thought of on these forums. :D It's not that all of their stuff is junk - Cold Steel has some decent knives in their line-up but their advertising and prices are way over the top.


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yoopernauts™;5991735 said:
Thanks for all the responses. Yeah, I was looking for rather a high-end puukko...with possibly a supersteel or D2. Does anyone know who would make that? And would those Kellam knives benefit from a cryo-treat service after purchase?
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I wouldn't bother with fancy cryos for puukkos. I have no idea if it would even help any. As far as I know, and that's not very far when it comes to cryo treatments, even when the cryo treat makes a difference, it's a very small difference that's impossible for a human to ever actually notice.

Puukkos are typically not made in "supersteels." That is for three reasons: 1) traditionally puukkos have always been made from high carbon steel, so that is the way they're mostly done even today; 2) supersteels are rather much harder to grind than the traditional high carbon steels and much more tricky to heat treat and; 3) puukkos are meant to be able to be sharpened in the field with very primitive methods, and supersteels are ill-suited to that use.

There are a few makers that make puukkos out of stuff like ATS-34 or D2, though. Jukka Hankala and Pekka Tuominen, for example.
 
Roselli Carpenter made in Finland. :thumbup:

Hand forged carbon blade, Arctic curly birch handle. Under $100...

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http://www.marttiini.fi makes nice no-nonsense knives in the traditional style. Reasonebly priced also. Not exactly the cold steel model but close. I am pretty sure mine is not a cold steel one and it is identical. No markings however.
 
The nov. 2007 issue of Tactical Knives has a nice story about Tapio Wirkkala and his puukko design. I purchased a Norwegian take on this design, in the Helle model 30 Jubileum knife. It cost $90 from Ragnars Forge. The Cold Steel Sisu has a secondary grind that is supposedly more suited to heavier field use than the scandanavian grind on the Helle knife. Field editor Steven Dick sliced through 1" manila rope with one slice with the Helle. He could only slice through half the 1" rope with the CS Sisu. he mentions that this still very good performance with a secondary grind style blade. The Sisu is almost an exact copy of the old Wirkkala knife. For people who like puukko style it may be a good edition to their collection. I personally like the knife, It sells for $200+, but it is well made, and a good looking field knife.
 
I also own a Kelluvo model 10 which is sold by Kellam knives. It is so sharp it is hard to believe.
 
Sharp Phil said:
I'm not a big steel snob, so I'm not the person to ask. I wouldn't pay 200 USD for it, either. I'd top out around 120 for something like this.
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I think I would pay that price or a little more for it - but not the $200 they're asking.

I like the design and simplicity. But, I found a small tanto for $150 custom and far better:

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Knife Supply sells it for $210. I wish the Sisu sold for around $150. But what are can we do. If the knife is something you want I guess you have to pay the piper. Has anyone seen the Sisu for any less?
 
Your reply about the Wirkkala Puukko being nothing special as a design or a knife is very off frankly. The original Hackman Wirkkala is definitely a collector piece. And a deserved one. The handle is exactly that, special and well thought in ergonomic thinking. The blade geometry is good and the sheath traditional, well functioning leather sheath. This particular puukko is in the very sense ahead of it's time. mr. Wirkkala was an extraordinary designer and to belittle him in one reply, coming from a finn no less, is somewhat puzzling.

As to cryo, I had this very subject discussed a while ago with Justin Gingrich's forum and it's the ss steels that seem to benefit from it. Might have something to do with chrome...

Elen said:
I wouldn't bother with fancy cryos for puukkos. I have no idea if it would even help any. As far as I know, and that's not very far when it comes to cryo treatments, even when the cryo treat makes a difference, it's a very small difference that's impossible for a human to ever actually notice.

Puukkos are typically not made in "supersteels." That is for three reasons: 1) traditionally puukkos have always been made from high carbon steel, so that is the way they're mostly done even today; 2) supersteels are rather much harder to grind than the traditional high carbon steels and much more tricky to heat treat and; 3) puukkos are meant to be able to be sharpened in the field with very primitive methods, and supersteels are ill-suited to that use.

There are a few makers that make puukkos out of stuff like ATS-34 or D2, though. Jukka Hankala and Pekka Tuominen, for example.
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I have the Hackman I got for around $30. It's really a beautiful knife but it is not a traditional puukko. You can get relatively cheap puukkos from Finland or similar knives from other Scandinavian countries, or you can get their more expensive knives.

All of them are better knives than the Wirkkala design. He was a natonal treasure sort of artist, so his work is iconic in that sense, but the knife is not a great field knife.

If you're interested in the Scandinavian designs, see www.ragweedforge.com and www.kellamknives.com for lots of variety of style and price. As Elen said, Scandinavian knives are primarily high carbon steel. Their stainless models are often 12C27.

Or you could pay more for "supersteels" and advertising.
 
The original Wirkkala is a great Puukko. If you get one you'll be happy you did. You could also get the Cold Steel Finn Bear, doesn't cost much, and get a feeling of the puukko styled knife. Although that particular model is not traditional (the hollow grind and the double bevel) in all aspects but it's still a nice sample of the nordic knife style. Moras are other cheaper options and allthough they're not puukkos either, they are great knives.
 
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Kellam Knives has the best of the best in puukkos. Ragnars Ragweed Forge has great knives at good prices too. I deal with both companies. These are real nice folks. They take care of their customers. I got an advertisment two years ago from Kellam. They had a missprint in the flyer. The price for the Kullervo Knives was 40& off. It should have been $40 off. I called to order such a fine knife for 40% off. Harriet, the owner advised me of the mistake, but insisted that she would honor the add, and sell it it for 40% off, which was much more of a savings. That's a class act. I bought a Murry Carter kitchen knife from her later. Puukkos are fine knives for many uses. They are my favorites.
 
Now I'm chomping at the bit to buy another puukko. This thread is torture for me. Just a kid in a candy store.
 
PatriotDan said:
Your reply about the Wirkkala Puukko being nothing special as a design or a knife is very off frankly. The orginal Hackman Wirkkala is definitely a collector piece. And a deserved one. The handle is exactly that, special and well thought in ergonomic thinking. The blade geometry is good and the sheath traditional, well functioning leather sheath. This particular puukko is in the very sense ahead of it's time. mr. Wirkkala was an extraordinary designer and to belittle him in one reply, coming from a finn no less, is somewhat puzzling.
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Well, you know what they say about opinions, my friend... I certainly agree the original Wirkkala puukko is a collector piece. I agree it's a deserved one, since it's relatively rare and easy to identify. But even so, I do not see it as anything that is functionally special and therefore worth paying a lot of money for - unless you just want to have it for your collection, which is of course your prerogative. That in itself, though, doesn't make it an exceptional knife in terms of performance.

I find the handle to be nothing special in use, and while the geometry has nothing wrong with it, I don't find it particularly worthy of special applause that could not be granted to other well-made puukkos. As for the sheath, it certainly works and is traditional, but it's even less special than the knife itself.

I don't see myself belittling Wirkkala as a person. I'm merely saying I find the puukko he designed to be nothing special in terms of performance, ergonomics or indeed anything except physical appearance. It looks special, that's for sure, but that's about it, in my experience. Looks mostly do not interest me in knives, so in that sense it's no surprise that I find the design less impressive.

Now, I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying it isn't amazing, certainly not as amazing as many rate it to be.
 
Do you have one? Have you used one? That would make the basis of a opinion.

Elen said:
Well, you know what they say about opinions, my friend... I certainly agree the original Wirkkala puukko is a collector piece. I agree it's a deserved one, since it's relatively rare and easy to identify. But even so, I do not see it as anything that is functionally special and therefore worth paying a lot of money for - unless you just want to have it for your collection, which is of course your prerogative. That in itself, though, doesn't make it an exceptional knife in terms of performance.

I find the handle to be nothing special in use, and while the geometry has nothing wrong with it, I don't find it particularly worthy of special applause that could not be granted to other well-made puukkos. As for the sheath, it certainly works and is traditional, but it's even less special than the knife itself.

I don't see myself belittling Wirkkala as a person. I'm merely saying I find the puukko he designed to be nothing special in terms of performance, ergonomics or indeed anything except physical appearance. It looks special, that's for sure, but that's about it, in my experience. Looks mostly do not interest me in knives, so in that sense it's no surprise that I find the design less impressive.

Now, I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying it isn't amazing, certainly not as amazing as many rate it to be.
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PatriotDan said:
Do you have one? Have you used one? That would make the basis of a opinion.
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Yes and yes. Well, actually, I've used more than just one. And that, of course, is the only reasonable answer to these questions. How would I know how it feels in use if I hadn't used one?
 
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Very good, too many here give opinions of knives based on pictures.

But consider this, the collective value hasn't come for the Wirkkala puukko by accident or by designer's reputation. All of it's aspects are well thought out, the looks excellent and frankly counting out the design (the looks) aspect is strange. We as knife enthiusiast now don't really care what a knife looks like? I see, hmm....

...And absolute handle ergos? No ,not the best. Thats individual preference but I certainly would never declare something as nothing special by my personal ergonomic needs. Should it have the best ergos to count as an exceptional knife? I guess with that said we don't have too many good knives around. How do you feel about the blade profile or the grind? Something wrong there? How would you describe the blade in general?
 
I just looked for a hackman Tapio Wirkkala puukko. There are none available on any search. Already sold out. For $325! I guess somebody likes them. They sold for $30 in the early 80's. Pretty good monetary appreciation for a factory made knife.
 
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