Cold Steel Sisu

[Esav Benyamin]

I agree with Elen, having one of the knives myself, and a well-used one at that. Remember too that the original was not an expensive knife. Also, it did not begin a trend of modernistic designs even in Finland. The traditional puukko remains the standard.

 

[PatriotDan]

There is nothing "modernistic" about the hackman Wirkkala. It doesn't present a "modern view" on the puukko. It was the Wirkkala view of a puukko design. A lesson in puukkos and mr. Tapio Wirkkala is recommended to fully understand the subject.

 

[rick43t3]

I guess I'll buy the Cs Sisu. It is almost an exact copy of the Hackman. A little differant handle shape, but very close. Better steel, nicer handle, made out of micarta. The original was made of nylon. Nickel silver bolster and cap, san mai III laminated steel. That to me constitutes a pretty good knife.

 

[Elen]

Very good, too many here give opinions of knives based on pictures.

But consider this, the collective value hasn't come for the Wirkkala puukko by accident or by designer's reputation. All of it's aspects are well thought out, the looks excellent and frankly counting out the design (the looks) aspect is strange. We as knife enthiusiast now don't really care what a knife looks like? I see, hmm....

...And absolute handle ergos? No ,not the best. Thats individual preference but I certainly would never declare something as nothing special by my personal ergonomic needs. Should it have the best ergos to count as an exceptional knife? I guess with that said we don't have too many good knives around. How do you feel about the blade profile or the grind? Something wrong there? How would you describe the blade in general?

I try not to give opinions that aren't based on real experience. In my opinion, to do so would be rather dishonest -at least if one doesn't mention that the opinion is based on just looking at a picture or something like that.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, and I for one do not consider looks to be anywhere near as important as performance and ergonomics. As for knife enthusiasts as a group, I cannot and will not speak for them. I'm just one guy, and when you talk to me, you get my opinions, not the opinions of knife enthusiasts as a group.

As for the qualities of the Wirkkala puukko, I will say this. If you ask me, for something to be called exceptional, it must be exceptional - that is to say, superior, unusually excellent. It's all well and good if a knife has good ergos and a working geometry. But does that make it exceptional, or just good? My answer is the latter. Exceptional is not the same as good. Good is good. Exceptional is much better than good. The Wirkkala is good. But it isn't exceptional to me. The exceptional thing about the Wirkkala design is 1) looks and 2) rarity. That's about it. And since I do not particularly value either, the knife becomes less than exceptional to me. That's how this stuff works.

Let me put it this way. In your opinion, what makes the Wirkkala exceptional? How does it perform in an exceptional fashion, that is to say, how is it superior in performance to other good puukkos? I've thought long and hard about that one, but I just can't find anything that would make me say it performs exceptionally. It's good. But that's all.

 

[PatriotDan]

Rick, I'd wait for few weeks. Wirkkala Hackmans come available every once and then and they are the original ones. Ask yourself, if CS made Randall copies, would you settle for one or wait for the real thing to come along? Patience, that's what this hobby is about.

 

[rick43t3]

Tapio Wirkkala was a very famous industrial artist. Remember industrial arts class in high school. Designing and fabricating, and making useful things. Wirkkala designed vases, tools,kitchen gadgets, and even currency. He was an interesting guy.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

There is nothing "modernistic" about the hackman Wirkkala. It doesn't present a "modern view" on the puukko. It was the Wirkkala view of a puukko design. A lesson in puukkos and mr. Tapio Wirkkala is reccommended to fully understand the subject.

I've done my reading on both.

The artificially stiff geomatric lines are typical of the "Scandinavian modern" style also seen in furniture.

The Wirkkala view is a puukko blade in a designer handle. The man did not get paid as a craftsman but as a designer, for coming up with something new and eye-catching for a manufacturer to sell.

 

[rick43t3]

Rick, I'd wait for few weeks. Wirkkala Hackmans come available every once and then and they are the original ones. Ask yourself, if CS made Randall copies, would you settle for one or wait for the real thing to come along? Patience, that's what this hobby is about.

Thanks Dan,
I just hope I can buy one for a better price than $325. What have you seen them selling for recently?

 

[PatriotDan]

Rick, I sure have. It might be a month or so before one comes available on second hand market but you can get one if you really want. It may take 2 months but you will definitely get one.

Another option already presented by Elen here, is that you order a custom one. Unless you want the Wirkkala Puukko that's the option I'd go with.

300+ bucks should get you one from a reputable puukkosmith. And that would be very special indeed. I highly recommend Pekka Tuominen (www.puukkopekka.com), he is a very talented finnish puukkosmith that is currently working for his mastersmith degree (not equivalent of the ABS mastersmith but based on puukkosmith craftmanship). having said that, there are numerous very good bladesmiths around nordic countries, 99% of puukkosmiths are found in Finland though...

Thanks Dan,
I just hope I can buy one for a better price than $325. What have you seen them selling for recently?

 

[Elen]

Thanks Dan,
I just hope I can buy one for a better price than $325. What have you seen them selling for recently?

The last one I saw went for 140 €. That was either this month or late last month. It would be about 202 $. This, of course, was in Finland. Outside Finland, prices tend to be higher.

 

[Elen]

300+ bucks should get you one from a reputable puukkosmith. And that would be very special indeed. I highly recommend Pekka Tuominen (www.puukkopekka.com), he is a very talented finnish puukkosmith that is currently working for his mastersmith degree. having said that, there are numerous very good puukkosmiths around nordic countries.

I second that. :thumbup: And he also makes sheaths in kydex, unlike most puukkosmiths. That may be interesting to some. Certainly is to me.

 

[PatriotDan]

I'm not sure what to make of your replies, now you're saying it was all a new eye-catching design from a designer? With stiff geometric lines? Are the stiff lines something we don't see in other handle designs? And based on your reply there is a question of designer vs craftsman? Is that it? Anything else you'd like to add?

I'm sorry. I must be in a bad mood. Let's just forget it shall we. Buy whatever you like.

I've done my reading on both.

The artificially stiff geomatric lines are typical of the "Scandinavian modern" style also seen in furniture.

The Wirkkala view is a puukko blade in a designer handle. The man did not get paid as a craftsman but as a designer, for coming up with something new and eye-catching for a manufacturer to sell.

 

[rick43t3]

The Helle model 30 is a terrific knife for the money. This is the one designed in 1965. The Wirkkala was designed in 1961. Scandanavian modern is a good description of these knives. My aunt and uncle built a new Modern style house in 1963, in Chelmsford Mass. they had some Scandinavian Modern furniture in their house. I wonder if it could have been a Wirkkala design. I just had a 450" room finished on my home. Now I know what kind of furniture to buy for this space. My aunt passed away last year, and she was my favorite aunt.

 

[rick43t3]

Thanks fellas,
I will check out your recommendations. The Tommi puukkos from Kellam are also something I will buy. Geeze, what am I saying,I like them all!

 

[rick43t3]

The last one I saw went for 140 €. That was either this month or late last month. It would be about 202 $. This, of course, was in Finland. Outside Finland, prices tend to be higher.

I would grab one for $200, Elan, if I could. Thanks.

 

[rick43t3]

Elan, I just looked on the website you provided. The smith uses silver steel, like the tommi knives. The handles on his knives are incredible. Just beautiful. Now I know where you are coming from, when you say the Wirkkala puukko dosen't impress you all that much. You agree it is good, but not exceptional. Looking at the custom puukkos I see why, very clearly. I would very much like one of those fine tools.

 

[rick43t3]

Dan,
Thanks. It was you who provided the website for the custom puukkos. Elan agreed with your good taste. You guys are both very knowledgable when it comes to puukkos. Hats off to you both.

 

[PatriotDan]

No problem Rick, I hope you'll find what you're looking for. Kellam has some very good Puukkos. Tommis are top choices for sure. I'd recommend the Tommi (KP) line, the Kullervos and the Wild Finns. They're all good! PM/email me if you need further info.

 

[rick43t3]

No problem Rick, I hope you'll find what you're looking for. Kellam has some very good Puukkos. Tommis are top choices for sure. I'd reccommend the Tommi (KP) line, the Kullervos and the Wild Finns. They're all good! PM/email me if you need further info.

Thanks for the help Dan, I have a Kullervos 10 from Kellam. Hope to get more puukkos soon. Will talk to you again.

 

[PatriotDan]

For what it's worth, the balance and weight of the original Hackman Wirkkala is very different from the CS versions. The sheath is different also. Different knife from different times.

The nov. 2007 issue of Tactical Knives has a nice story about Tapio Wirkkala and his puukko design. I purchased a Norwegian take on this design, in the Helle model 30 Jubileum knife. It cost $90 from Ragnars Forge. The Cold Steel Sisu has a secondary grind that is supposedly more suited to heavier field use than the scandanavian grind on the Helle knife. Field editor Steven Dick sliced through 1" manila rope with one slice with the Helle. He could only slice through half the 1" rope with the CS Sisu. he mentions that this still very good performance with a secondary grind style blade. The Sisu is almost an exact copy of the old Wirkkala knife. For people who like puukko style it may be a good edition to their collection. I personally like the knife, It sells for $200+, but it is well made, and a good looking field knife.