Cold Steel Success

T

Thrustus

Joined
Jun 16, 2010
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What do most forumites think would happen if Cold Steel began using high end steels in it's folding line,like Kershaw, Spyderco etc? Do you think it would be successful? Eg, Espada XL in CPM M4 or Lawman in M390.
 
I think the XL espada is stupid. However a recon 1,lawman, AK in S30v would be badass. I'd probably still be carrying my Recon 1 tanto if I didn't have to sharpen it every day I used it.
 
I would have kept my AK-47 if it had better steel, i had to sharpen it daily, just wasn't worth it anymore so i moved on and probably wont look at cold steel again until they make a better steel AK or Recon1.
 
I would want a large Vaquero with nicely textured and sharp-looking G10 (not the unrefined super grippy stuff) and VG-10, also with a waved thumbramp and a thumbdisc. That would be awesome.
 
Steel is soaring in price and I've never wanted S30V, necessarily, but you know, what I would like is VG-1 (which was a nice step up) or ATS-134/CM154, which is a fine steel. Having the latter is like having S30V that's easy to sharpen! But Cold Steel is damned and determined to force AUS8 down our throats. Don't get me wrong, AUS8 is a great all round steel, but you're just not going to get a high end steel out of Lynn Thompson unless it comes with 420 slabs and a price tag four times what it's worth.

Look, Thompson used to sandwich AUS8 between two slabs of 420 and palmed it off as San Mai II!! The whole idea behind layered steel was to use a super steel in the middle and layer the cheaper stuff on the sides to toughen it. But AUS8 isn't exactly a super steel. Now if they changed the heat treat of the inner steel and made it sharp and brittle, then layered it with tough 420, that might be one thing...but AUS8 doesn't need 420 to toughen it. Neither does VG-1.

The thing that's going for CS is its excellent heat treat. It's outstanding and I have CS knives made with 440A blades that compare favorably with AUS8 from other knife companies, like CRKT. I've had other 440A (I don't want to mention any names, but their initials are Boker Magnum...oops) that won't even sharpen! I can use a Sharpmaker on them and it's like trying to sharpen a cheap switchblade!

The knife company that really needs to reexamine things, though, is Buck. People are getting awfully tired of 420HC. But that's another thread.
 
I would finally break down and get the Recon-1 I've looked at for over a year if it had better steel.
Like take s30v stonewash it and put it on the Recon-1 SP, then I'll take it lol.
 
Spinerazor said:
I would have kept my AK-47 if it had better steel, i had to sharpen it daily, just wasn't worth it anymore so i moved on and probably wont look at cold steel again until they make a better steel AK or Recon1.
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the ak47 (2nd gen) was the first knife ive ever purchased. i have such an emotional attatchment to that knife its unreal. its on its final resting place in my knife drawer because its been replaced by better ever since lol
 
I would buy some of their knives... however judging by the prices of their knives that are in steels better than AUS-8 like their vg-10 or vg-1 knives, S30V and M390 blades would be in the $300-$600 range.
 
Yeah cold steel could be so much better because they do have some good designs, minus the mall ninja stuff. Realistically for 50-60 bucks you get a really good beater knife and the triad lock works quite well. I use a mini-recon as part of my work rotation because of its 3 inch blade and it takes a beating well. Now if it had VG-10 or S30V I would consider it a very good knife to have around (even with the increased cost that steel would add). You gotta' admit for the most part they are built pretty solid. As it is, I still think its a good knife even with AUS8. Actually its AUS8 which has given me sharpening skills because of the fact you have to bring that steel up again. Really now touching it up would just require some honing on some ceramic rods and it would be ready again. I'm not a real fan of AUS8 but I don't hate it either, it has its place and really didn't need to be 'sharpened' frequently just 'touched up/honed' frequently.

I have other Cold Steel knives in my collection, but it's a small fraction of the total and they are the knives I don't keep boxes for! :)

PS; I don't care much for their marketing techniques, the ads are funny
 
Isn't Cold Steel already successful? I haven't followed the production market in decades but they seem to sell a lot of pieces. Would they sell more with better steels? Probably. They could offer them as an upgrade and grab different customers.

The main turnoff to CS for me is the marketing. I've never been fond of rabid sales tactics. They are decent knives for the price (at least the ones I owned years ago), I wish the marketing would just leave it at that.
 
Most of Cold Steel success comes from having affordable knives in the $40-$60 range that are good quality and very rugged. If they were to use better steel and bump up
the prices to say around the $100 range than they would have to compete with Spydero and Benchmade and I don't see them being successful in that arena.
 
Confederate said:
...Look, Thompson used to sandwich AUS8 between two slabs of 420 and palmed it off as San Mai II!! The whole idea behind layered steel was to use a super steel in the middle and layer the cheaper stuff on the sides to toughen it. But AUS8 isn't exactly a super steel. Now if they changed the heat treat of the inner steel and made it sharp and brittle, then layered it with tough 420, that might be one thing...but AUS8 doesn't need 420 to toughen it. Neither does VG-1...
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I think that CS does in fact run it's VG-1 hard in it's San Mai blades. At least I have never heard anyone complain about the current San Mai offerings, but that doesn't mean much.

I have a fairly hefty collection of CS knives and I have found them to be perfectly serviceable for my applications. In fact, when I spend money on a CS knife, I know that I'll get my money's worth out of it and more. Their AUS-8 is as good as AUS-8 gets and their VG-1 is perfectly acceptable to me as a hard use steel. Now, I don't do silly things like cutting cardboard with my pocket knives, which is what a use specific box cutter is for, neither do I cut Manilla rope and sandpaper. If I was going to perform such activities, I would grab my S90V Military and have at her. No, my uses are fairly pedestrian, such as around camp for cooking, carving out the occasional spoon from Holly, trimming the occasional shrub and things of a related nature. The ability to quickly strop a knife back to a shaving edge, is far more important to me than a thousand cuts of sisal. The reality is that I could shop for all my needs at the Cold Steel 'watering hole' and never feel wanting. In fact, around the house, a Kudu in Krupp 4116 is one of my most used knives. I have never broken one, but if I did, I am fairly sure that I could come up with seven bucks to replace it.

A favorite pass-time on the boards is a good pissing contest about steel. Such are interesting contests to watch, but there can never be a winner, as each person's usage and applications of steel, blade shape, edge profiles, et al, must in the end be subjective. Does the knife, blade and steel work for them? Where people are concerned, the answers can be fuzzy: yes, no and maybe, not absolutes. This doesn't mean that I am not interested in Jim's (Ankerson) testing, or Jack's (Yablanowitz) anecdotes about the latest 'super steel' he sent crying home to mama. Far from it. These guys bring valuable lessons to us that we don't have to pay for out of pocket and I appreciate their work.

Back to Cold Steel. I have found their products for the most part to be a good value, well made and they do actually deliver what their sometimes 'off the wall' advertising suggests. Many will disagree and that is just fine. AUS-8 and VG-1? I like them just fine. I also like Buck's 420HC (with a tip of the hat to my knife brother Confederate) and Kershaw's 440A, which keeps a sharp edge for a surprising length of time. Perhaps if I had one wish, I would like to see CS do a San Mai using M390, but I know that I wouldn't like the price. ;)
 
Thrustus said:
What do most forumites think would happen if Cold Steel began using high end steels in it's folding line,like Kershaw, Spyderco etc? Do you think it would be successful? Eg, Espada XL in CPM M4 or Lawman in M390.
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I think it's the bread-and-butter knives (pun intended) that would benefit the most from an upgrade in steel. I've harped on this a lot at the cold steel forum. They should do what Kershaw and Spyderco do, offer the American Lawman is low- medium and high-end steel, like the Blur or the Manix. A Recon 1 or AL with 154CM would be worth an extra $40 to me. An AL in M390? What knife in that size and weightclass would be better than an AL in M390?

It seems to me Cold Steel are shortchanging themselves by limiting their offerings to AUS8A. The Taiwan-made blades are of the same quality as the Spyderco ones, which is saying a lot. Now add higher-end steel, and you have a folder that doesn't take a bow to any of the other production folders.
 
Thrustus said:
What do most forumites think would happen if Cold Steel began using high end steels in it's folding line,like Kershaw, Spyderco etc? Do you think it would be successful? Eg, Espada XL in CPM M4 or Lawman in M390.
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Timeline:

1. People would complain about the price of the new steel.
2. People would ask why Lynn doesn't also offer a cheaper version in, let's say, Aus8!
3. People would post remembering the "good ole days" when CS used Aus8 and SK5!!!
4. People would begin to sell off their "rare and valuable" old versions on eBay, for 5 times what they paid...
5. Lastly, no matter what new super steel CS did choose, all the armchair anglers and forearm shaving computer campers would complain that they should have used something else.

It is a 100% lost cause trying to please these people so my guess is that CS (and every other for-profit business) uses the best materials possible according to what the market could bear. No point making knives the masses cannot afford right? Also no sense making knives that break and fall apart. The compromise is a common sense lineup CS offers such as the Recon Scout that comes in a high end VG1 steel and a more affordable SK5. The SK5 versions of many of their knives are about 25-50% less than the VG1 and many people actuall prefer the SK5. Not a bad compromise! But if it's not good enough there are lots of higher end companies advertised here on blade forums that would gladly take people's money, or you also have the option to go custom. It's a virtual win win win.
 
APF, right on, my feelings exactly. People would still moan if CS upped the anty and put out folders in say, 154cm or vg10. Because then they would complain about the price increase in addition to the myriad of other reasons they find to whine about the company. I would love to see them offer a steel upgrade in a few of their folders; i'd gladly pay $30 more for a vg10 Recon1 for example.
 
The Espada XL is indeed over the top; it's almost humorous to see a clip on its side and a wave-style thingie on that monster blade. But the Espada L is an interesting collector's model and I think its design is in a class that is comparable to other large, non-EDC models. But I agree that the desirability of steel upgrade is a sticking factor and as someone noted CS is shortchanging themselves on this point. Quite a few of those designs deserve something better than AUS8.
 
really really wanted to get the espada Large....but can't justify a $250 knife with only aus 8. they really should use 154cm or vg10 for their higher end stuff.....
 
NightMare Silverado said:
I think the XL espada is stupid. However a recon 1,lawman, AK in S30v would be badass. I'd probably still be carrying my Recon 1 tanto if I didn't have to sharpen it every day I used it.
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The XL Espada actually make a nice folding chopper. Which isn't as odd of a concept as it might seem. In WW2 Case provided folding machetes to the Air Force for use in survival kits.
 
I consider most CS knives to be budget priced and so AUS 8 ( IMO ) is acceptable.

That being said, I use my Rajah II to clear saplings and low hanging pine branches when I'm out cutting the lawn. I'm more than satisfied with it's edge holding ability and have actualy been surprised after hacking away at some harder woods too.
 
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