cold steel

[singularity35]

There is a considerable difference in edge retention that can be noticed easily in longer term useage. Hitachi's ZDP has almost 3 times the carbon content of Aichi's AUS-8 and is generally 5 points higher on a Rockwell scale. (59 vs 64).

AUS-8 is a particularly homogenous steel so the grain structure will be as refined as the grain structure of powdered steels like ZDP or S30V. That means it will get as sharp as the powderd steels, just won't stay sharp as long.

sal

Thanks for chiming in Sal, I am aware of this because of the information I got from this and your forum. I can tell the difference between ZDP and say VG-10 only when sharpening because I don't really use my knives so much that I can tell the difference in edge retention.

As an academic point however, I know and in fact believe, that ZDP is amazing because I have taken my ZDP endura down to about 22 degrees with a remarkable increase in cutting performance. I don't believe that a lot of other steels can be taken down this much and still have much edge retention.

I know that guys who have long experience and who use and sharpen their knives a lot can tell instantly. I hope to one day acquire such knowledge and skill. I am however, referring to the casual user who probably comprise the majority of knife buyers of which I belong to at the moment.

PS: BTW. all good, just different.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Generally speaking, thinner is better if the steel can hold the edge for the intended use. We've had ZDP down to about 10 degrees inclusive on one of our models. Some like it, some shapen a bit thicker. I usually keep ZDP at 30 degrees with no problem. General cutting (cardboard, paper, strapping stuff, wood, etc).

sal

 

[singularity35]

Generally speaking, thinner is better if the steel can hold the edge for the intended use. We've had ZDP down to about 10 degrees inclusive on one of our models. Some like it, some shapen a bit thicker. I usually keep ZDP at 30 degrees with no problem. General cutting (cardboard, paper, strapping stuff, wood, etc).

sal

Thanks for the tip Sal. I'll wait till my ZDP Endura needs sharpening then I'll take it back to about 30 degrees inclusive. That'll probably be a long time since I only use it for food related EDC. Or should I just do a micro bevel of 30 degrees from now on?

 

[Hitzy]

Cost. Your words.



Other properties of steels. Your words.

Great! You can cut and past quotes from a thread discussion on 440C compared to newer steels! Brilliant!
How is that relevant to THIS thread? You sort of left that part out??

 

[Hitzy]

So I guess, if a time comes when you're up against it, you won't stab with your folder.

No, that's what guns are for. Knives are tools.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Or should I just do a micro bevel of 30 degrees from now on?

That's easiest.

sal

 

[Ankerson]

Generally speaking, thinner is better if the steel can hold the edge for the intended use. We've had ZDP down to about 10 degrees inclusive on one of our models. Some like it, some shapen a bit thicker. I usually keep ZDP at 30 degrees with no problem. General cutting (cardboard, paper, strapping stuff, wood, etc).

sal

I love My Endura 4 FFG in ZDP-189, sharpened it down to 24 degrees inclusive the other day, that steel is just amazing. :thumbup:

I know all that but can you tell the difference in a blind test? I know can't. Some of the more experienced users here might. Have you compared AUS8 with say ZDP or S30V in real world usage? Extensively?

There is a huge difference in ZDP-189 and AUS8 when used to cut a lot of stuff. While AUS8 will take a very keen edge but it will dull much faster than ZDP will. It's also much easier to touch up and sharpen. ZDP will keep holding it's edge for it seems forever, the real trick to it is not to let it get too dull before touching it up. It's much easier to put that air bleeding edge back on it when it's still kinda sharp, if you let it get dull then it will take time to get it sharp again. I use an Edge Pro and when it just starts to lose that keen edge I use the 6000 grit Polishing Tape to touch it back up, it literally takes just a few mins. You can do the same with the Sharpmaker UF rods or a Ceramic hone if that's what you use. (Don't let it get too dull)

It's a trade off really, the Supersteels like ZDP-189 will hold an edge forever, but it can be a real bear to sharpen with standard Oil Stones or a Sharpmaker. I wouldn't even what to think how long it would take to reprofile or repair the edge on a Sharpmaker if you had to remove a good amount of steel. Most people seem to use Diamond Stones or an Edge Pro, Lansky (Diamonds) or something like them to sharpen with.

AUS8 will dull faster, but it's very easy to sharpen using Oil Stones or a Sharpmaker.

Both are good, just different.

 

[philwar]

Absolutely, AUS8 is low carbon and softer then a lot of the newer steels that have been on the market for decades. It's lower quality then 440C that's been around for 40 years. Try some VG10, 154CM, ZDP-189, S30V and you will instantly see the difference in performance and edge retention.

You have no argument from me that the steels you name are better than AUS8A. But your hardness argument is BS and shows your ignorance. Softness is a function of the heat treatment, and AUS8A can be hardened to the same levels as the other steels mentioned. Even in its optimum state it won't be significantly less than (for example) VG-10. Most people are never gonna notice two points on the rockwell scale.

 

[singularity35]

No, that's what guns are for. Knives are tools.

I know, so you probably will use your hands rather than a folder. And do you carry a gun all the time too? in addition to a fixed blade?

 

[singularity35]

That's easiest.

sal

Thanks Sal.

 

[Hitzy]

You have no argument from me that the steels you name are better than AUS8A. But your hardness argument is BS and shows your ignorance. Softness is a function of the heat treatment, and AUS8A can be hardened to the same levels as the other steels mentioned. Even in its optimum state it won't be significantly less than (for example) VG-10. Most people are never gonna notice two points on the rockwell scale.

I had a question mark....I was asking a question....?? Are you somewhat challenged in the comprehension department? See...another question.
D2 has been around for a while, is a high carbon, hard, brittle steel, it's not a good steel to be pounding on battoning, prying, etc. I know, I've tried it.
There are not many affordable full tang fixed blades in S30V, VG10, ZDP-189 etc for me to try banging on, and bending. As they get more popular and sales increase, the prices will come down.
I still have no idea what point you are trying to make?

 

[Hitzy]

I know, so you probably will use your hands rather than a folder. And do you carry a gun all the time too? in addition to a fixed blade?

There is no crime in Canada, our standard of living is too high

 

[singularity35]

There is no crime in Canada, our standard of living is too high

Oh so that explains it. You wouldn't need a hard use folder, you probably don't even need a knife out of the kitchen. But you wouldn't want to impose your standards on people in a different situation, would you?

 

[Beyond You]

You got your cold steel t-shirt on tonight singularity ? lol

I dont need alot of the knives I have, but I also dont need any cold steels for that matter.

 

[singularity35]

You got your cold steel t-shirt on tonight singularity ? lol

Actually I don't have one but I like to call them as they are and not just
about brands. How about you what t-shirt do you have on?

PS: BTW, if you don't need most of the knives you have, what do you care about the performance? Or is it all about hating some dude on a video?

 

[Beyond You]

I pay for performance, I pay for workmanship, I pay for something other then imported zytel and aus8a, no but the videos are extremely funny tho.

I have mt. dew t-shirt on actually since you asked .

 

[me2]

Absolutely, AUS8 is low carbon and softer then a lot of the newer steels that have been on the market for decades. It's lower quality then 440C that's been around for 40 years. Try some VG10, 154CM, ZDP-189, S30V and you will instantly see the difference in performance and edge retention.

AUS-8 is hardly low carbon steel. It is a high carbon stainless and can be hardened to about 60 HRc and even higher. As was said, heat treatment determines this. I don't know how hard CS makes their blades, but it's not for lack of ability of the steel. AUS-8 is not low quality. It's just as clean as other Japanese steels like VG-1, VG-10, ZDP-189, etc. Saying it's low quality implies there is something wrong with how the steel is made. The elements in it are the ones intended to be there in the desired quantities. I have tried some of the above steels and AUS-8 has some desireable properties even compared to this group of steels.

BTW, how can a newer steel have been on the market for decades?

 

[singularity35]

I pay for performance, I pay for workmanship, I pay for something other then imported zytel and aus8a, no but the videos are extremely funny tho.

I have mt. dew t-shirt on actually since you asked .

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=759783

If you need a slicer, then cold steel hard use knives are not for you. But for the people who like hard use folders, they are quite sufficient. There are a lot of guys here with a lot of knife experience who find the new offerings of cold steel quite up to snuff. What kind of performance are you talking about?

Or are you one of those anti-hard use guys masquerading as anti-cold steel?

 

[Beyond You]

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=759783

If you need a slicer, then cold steel hard use knives are not for you. But for the people who like hard use folders, they are quite sufficient. There are a lot of guys here with a lot of knife experience who find the new offerings of cold steel quite up to snuff. What kind of performance are you talking about?

Or are you one of those anti-hard use guys masquerading as anti-cold steel?

Slicer ? yeah id like a knife to cut, thats the purpose, will I need to chop with a 3"in blade folder....maybe, but probably not. Theres just to many choices out there to lower the standards with a cs. My collections mostly Busse's and high end production and custom folders.

 

[singularity35]

Slicer ? yeah id like a knife to cut, thats the purpose, will I need to chop with a 3"in blade folder....maybe, but probably not. Theres just to many choices out there to lower the standards with a cs. My collections mostly Busse's and high end production and custom folders.

Good for you! I would like a strider but it's way too expensive for me. A recon 1 is fine for the price point. It can probably do 95 percent of what a strider can do at 1/4 the price. In my book a knife that is capable of 95 percent of a strider's capability is decent enough quality.

But you vote with your wallet, don't buy what you don't want.

PS: May I see pics of your collections?