Cold Steel's new items

greater said:
These new knives are going to be some vicious competitors once they hit the market and are going to give some of our more established lax companies a run for the money.
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Curious as to whom you might be referring, and what you mean by your use of the term "lax?" You're certainly not talking about the companies who experiment with new steels in addition to new designs, are you?:confused:
 
3Guardsmen said:
Good Point! Moving the production of their Voyagers and Gunsite models from Japan to Taiwan, as I strongly suspect just happened, even with the Tri-Ad lock and VG-1 San Mai III blade steel upgrades, could have indeed cheapened the manufacturing costs. Does anyone know if there is a price decrease in moving to Grivory from Zytel? I just noticed the New Voyager and Gunsite models list Grivory as the handle material.

Also, from the pictures, the new Voyagers and Gunsites appear to have all screw construction, yet retain a riveted pivot.:confused: Short of lock adjustment, which I just realized can't even be performed due to the fact that lock is pinned, does anyone see a benefit in that manufacturing step?
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I am thinking that the other side of the pivot pin will be a Torx head as well. Otherwise it would be cheaper just to pin the whole shebang. :confused:
 
A.P.F. said:
I am thinking that the other side of the pivot pin will be a Torx head as well. Otherwise it would be cheaper just to pin the whole shebang. :confused:
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I hope you're right on that! I may actually get one or two if they feel alright in my hand.
 
kmm said:
Am i the only one having a hard time envisioning how- not one, but three- CS folders can chip from falling of a 3-foot coffe table??? :confused:
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That's easy. You get up at 7 AM, set up a table on a concrete floor, line up the deployed knives and push them off one after another. When they've all fallen, pick them up and check them. The ones that haven't chipped go back on the table, and the proces repeats. You might try different starting positions for the knives (tip first, last, sideways, etc) for varying results. If no chips occur, try launching the knives from a ladder, if that fails, a rooftop.

Keep this up and success should eventually be guaranteed. Bashing Cold Steel is worth the effort! :thumbup:

/sarcasm
 
whoa!
flying stars?!
this has to be the most spectacular addition to boost CS's image as the main tactical equipment supplier for true "men of action".
 
The CS ultra lock is a licensed design from BM's axis lock. It is pretty near identical. Matter of fact the license expired for CS so they went to the triad lock on some models. I have used CS products for years and I'll say again my son has abused his Recon1 tanto I gave him and it still locks up as good today as it did 5 years ago.

Threads like this totally kill me. Most of the time these degenerate down to what Thompson says or does etc.etc. I would love to have some other makers/manufacturer's hang weights on the end of the handles of some of the knives they make and see how they hold up. I know a fella that writes for a knife mag. did a test just on this very thing in one of the mags a few months back and the CS products he tested, especially the triad lock did very very well in the tests and some high end manufacturer's did not. I am thinking Knives Illustrated maybe? I for one am looking forward to the full flat grind Voyager in VG1 and the triad lock. The other stuff maybe not so much. keepem sharp

The writer also tested the ultra lock(axis license from BM) and it held superbly as did some of the BM products. I also post on the CS website on occasion and have not read or heard of anyone not being able to manipulate or use a knife correctly. Matter of fact some of the video's folks post are very impressive especially the folks throwing knives.
 
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I'm actually pleasantly surprised at the 2010 CS offerings myself. I've owned roughly half of their folder models going back well over a decade and never had one that didn't perform as advertised. I buy fairly equally from many companies, from CRKT to Benchmade (and a lonely prized Crawford). But for what it's worth I sent 2 Recon 1 s' overseas to serve, one to Iraq with a friend' husband and the other due to ship out to Afghanistan in March with my little brother.

The new designs certainly won't please fans of more conservative lines and designs but guess I'm the part of the "mall ninja" faction they're targeting because they're pushing my buttons. I'm definitely getting at least 3 of these. A few of my friends are going in with me on my orders too. I know folks will either love or hate the new lines on the folders (and CS in general) but you gotta love seeing the Tri-Ad lock getting spread around to the other models and the full flat grinds on those clip point Voyagers. Hope they get the Vaquero pics up soon.

As for all the company bashing, don't let it get to you, folks. It's a hobby. Folks are opinionated and often immature about these things. I know CS has made this strange little hobby of ours more enjoyable for me and they're still doing it.
 
3Guardsmen said:
Good Point! Moving the production of their Voyagers and Gunsite models from Japan to Taiwan, as I strongly suspect just happened, even with the Tri-Ad lock and VG-1 San Mai III blade steel upgrades, could have indeed cheapened the manufacturing costs. Does anyone know if there is a price decrease in moving to Grivory from Zytel? I just noticed the New Voyager and Gunsite models list Grivory as the handle material.

Also, from the pictures, the new Voyagers and Gunsites appear to have all screw construction, yet retain a riveted pivot.:confused: Short of lock adjustment, which I just realized can't even be performed due to the fact that lock is pinned, does anyone see a benefit in that manufacturing step?
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the voyagers are being produced in Japan
 
the great majority of laminated steels are pretty tame. 5160, 5200, W2 cores, etc. Very low alloy steels with minimal wear resistance compared to vanadium/moly/tungsten rich alloys.
 
Rat 1 said:
I've had that ultra lock (axis lock rip off) fail on me two times because how cheap they were made. I have also had all of my CS knives develop vertical bladeplay after about a WEEK of use. The edge hasn't held up well and has chipped too easy due to bad heat treatment. Last but not least I've had three CS knives that have chipped tips due to dropping it from a three foot coffee table one was a tanto.

I will repeat it once again CS knives have been crap in my experiences. Your experiences may vary.
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I seriously doubt that ever happened...... :rolleyes:

Rat 1 said:
Well, I generally use my less expensive knives hard with no remorse. Lynn Thompson advertises all CS knives as extreme hard use blades and I'm not impressed.
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Opinions vary.... ;)
 
I'm still trying to understand how the Triad lock works. The design clearly has one large advantage in using a stop-blade bar to absorb chopping forces normally taken by the lockback bar pivot. But I'm not seeing a large transfer of forces to the whole frame, or even to the "triad" of pivots and bars.

When the 480 pounds was hung on the handle of the Spartan, there were two primary force vectors. One was pulling the lockback bar pivot forward. The other seemed to be pushing the blade pivot down and back. There was really nothing going on at the stop-blade bar, the third member of the triad.

And with chopping forces, the lockback bar pivot is largely isolated by the stop bar. It may have a dampening effect because of direct contact, but basically the stop bar and blade pivot are taking the brunt.

Hanging 480 pounds off the Spartan was certainly impressive -- especially in a $60 knife. But I think we're ignoring the big factor: bigness. I've always considered the Manix a large, powerful knife, and it is. But the Spartan makes it look small. And the Rajah II makes the Spartan look small. The Spartan and the Rajah are huge knives with heavy metal stock and beefy pivots.

I'm not knocking the Triad lock, which seems to be a legitimate improvement to the lockback, but I don't see the magic. If you upsized the Manix to the same blade stock and pivot stock, it could take a lot of weight.
 
Well could it take as much weight as the triad? Why don't you test it out and see? Take your Mannix and hang a few hundred pounds off it. I also think there is alot more stess put on any locking knife when a down force is applied no matter how you have the front of the knife anchored. How do you figure there is no force put on the stop bar? If I am pushing on the end of the handle with a downward force I would think the force would be rolled around the top of the stop bar at some point and consequently the blade tang cut out as it rolls around the stop bar would be putting a really focused point of pressure on the stop bar as it does so. Especially the way the lock works with how the tang sits on it . I guess my other point to this is that it works and works well. I've had a Mannix or two also and just thought myself that it was nice stiff lock back nothing special really about them save for the stiff springs. The triad seems like a whole different animal to me and the tests that a fella ran for Knives Illustrated had very excellent success testing the CS knives along with some of the finest of other manufactuer'rs. The lock works and really all I care about. keepem sharp
 
Twindog said:
I'm still trying to understand how the Triad lock works. The design clearly has one large advantage in using a stop-blade bar to absorb chopping forces normally taken by the lockback bar pivot. But I'm not seeing a large transfer of forces to the whole frame, or even to the "triad" of pivots and bars.

When the 480 pounds was hung on the handle of the Spartan, there were two primary force vectors. One was pulling the lockback bar pivot forward. The other seemed to be pushing the blade pivot down and back. There was really nothing going on at the stop-blade bar, the third member of the triad.

And with chopping forces, the lockback bar pivot is largely isolated by the stop bar. It may have a dampening effect because of direct contact, but basically the stop bar and blade pivot are taking the brunt.

Hanging 480 pounds off the Spartan was certainly impressive -- especially in a $60 knife. But I think we're ignoring the big factor: bigness. I've always considered the Manix a large, powerful knife, and it is. But the Spartan makes it look small. And the Rajah II makes the Spartan look small. The Spartan and the Rajah are huge knives with heavy metal stock and beefy pivots.

I'm not knocking the Triad lock, which seems to be a legitimate improvement to the lockback, but I don't see the magic. If you upsized the Manix to the same blade stock and pivot stock, it could take a lot of weight.
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There is transfer of forces by the simple fact that the barrel and pins are secured in the frame which is screwed together as well as pinned so it all comes together to work as one piece. Sure the stop absorbs but at the same time so is the pivot barrel, and so is the sum total of the G10 frame and parts since they are all one. With positive pressure such as that of choil whacks or tip pressure on the blade from cutting or chopping the stop and pivot takes the brunt and transfers that shock to the G10 as opposed to the lock bar. This alone keeps the lock bar from popping up like it does in most other style folders. A choil whack is a sure fire way to be upset with your folder in many cases. Spine whacks are bad enough but the choil or kick whack as I've called it can often times beat the best of locks. Another folder that did well in these type whacks was the Fulcrum II by Extreme Ratio when I had one here. That model is one of the strongest I've ever tested but you pay dearly for that and to be honest its not any better blade steel than what Cold Steel is using in their $60 knives.

STR
 
tf8s said:
...

I didn't answer you originally because you came off as patronizing, not because of a lack of understanding of STR's explanation. if I'm wrong about the connotation of your message, then I apologize, but that's the impression I got when I initially read it.
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Actually, I asked because statements such as "distributes the forces throughout the system" mean little. Such statements are "result" statements but do not explain the important "why". What "system", how are these forces distributed, and what is different between the Tri-Ad and conventional lockbacks was not mentioned beyound there being a stop-pin. No particulars were mentioned in the initial reply of post 42.

Nor was the initial question answered, to wit "what exactly is different about the tri-ad lock besides the stop-pin".

That is why I asked if you could indicate why the Tri-Ad lock is showing higher strength in your own words. Perhaps you see some structural element I missed as being different.


For example, looking at the mechanism of the Tri-Ad lock, do you see that the lockbar beyound the wedging portion could be made significantly weaker, i.e. thinner with less mass, and still provide an apparent strong lock? The operating arm could be viewed as simply a means to move the "wedge" portion into and out of engagement with the blade/stop pin structures.


EDIT: it is all fun :)
 
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DemkoKnives said:
the voyagers are being produced in Japan
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That's certainly good to hear! All of the models I looked at from previous catalogs that listed the word "Japanese" before the type of blade steel appear to be made in Taiwan, so I erroneously made the assumption that the same thing was happening with the new Voyagers and Gunsites. Sorry for rushing to an incorrect conclusion!
 
3Guardsmen said:
What do you mean by "how cheap they were made," when speaking of the ultra lock? Are you referring to cheap steel being used for the ultra lock pin? Are you referring to cheap or under-hardened steel being used for the liners? Are you referring to weak omega type springs?:confused:

How many CS knives is "all of my CS knives," two, five, twenty? What kind of "use" are you referring to when state that all of your CS knives developed play after "a WEEK" of use? Were you dicing onions, slicing cheese, stabbing car hoods?:confused:

You managed to drop not one, not two, but three CS knives from a "three foot coffee table?":eek: Are you clumbsy? Onto what type of surface were these three knives dropped, carpet, wood, granite? Were the knives dropped point first or handle first?:confused:

:rolleyes:
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It doesn't matter how many the point is that they failed on me. Quit trying to defend Cold Steel.
 
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