Collaborations.....

The more I think about this subject, the more it interest me.
So STeven, I will take a postion now.

I strongly agree with you in that a collaboration makes sence when the knife benefits from the collaboration. And surprisingly many do not.

However, I believe most dealers price collaborations higher than like knives by the single maker because they know they can as many collectors (especially new) expect to and will pay more just because a knife is a collaboration.
 
RogerP said:
I think he was talking overall length Doug - as in a 7 inch blade. Looks 7 or 8" in blade length to me.


Roger
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Yes, I was figuring 13" OAL as the blade appears to be about 7"-8". You can usually safely assume a handle is 4 3/4 - 5" and estimate your blade length compared to that.
 
i think a collaboration is only good when it produces a knife that could not be made be either maker individually....if you had a maker x that made excellent damascus and a maker y that did unbelievable handles then you get a good knife in the end......if maker x or y could make the knife individually it wasn't worth it and in my mind takes something away from the knife......ryan
 
As far as collaborations as a whole are concerned, I think that when a great knife maker gets together with a great engraver, scrimshander, carver, etc. that it can add greatly to the value of a knife, and to its appeal. When it is two or more makers getting together, it depends on the makers. If one of the them is really famous and the other isn't, the knife will be worth more than one from the lesser known maker, and less than one from the really famous one. If AG Barnes and Moran collaborated on a knife (actually they did), the knife would never be worth as much as a sole authorship Moran, but would be worth more than one from AG Barnes. If the makers are at about the same level in the marketplace, it is my opinion that the future value would be less than what a sole authorship knife from either one of the makers would be. However, if one got really famous, that would likely pull the value of the knife up.

Anyway, that's my opinion, for what it's worth.
 
jujigatame said:
Steven, I can see your point about some collabs that leave one saying "Eh..." rather than thinking it was the best combination since chocolate and peanut butter (or whatever one's favorite pairing may be). But I kind of get the sense that it annoys you that makers would collaborate on something and not come up with a great end result from their combined talents, that maybe you think they shouldn't waste the time. Do you feel that way or am I off base in my interpretation?

While all collaborations will not result in something "greater than the two or more individual parts" as you said earlier, I would tend to think, or perhaps it's just hope, that two makers would not get together with the idea of "Let's make an average knife with your blade and my handle." Tim G. and Lee Williams could have made a knife together that wasn't going to light people's worlds on fire. Extremely unlikely given their talents and current profiles, but possible. The fact that they hit on something really cool working together hopefully gives other folks the inspiration to try. They may not all be home runs, but if makers lose a potential spark to collaborate because they're afraid of not pleasing everyone then we as collectors will lose out as well in the long run.
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1. You got it right, Nate!!

2. While I can appreciate that "two great tastes" might not taste great together, rather than putting it out on the open market to suffer the public derision of overly opinionated a-holes like me, maybe it would be better to give that stillborn POS to granpa or cousin Ralph?

3. Inspiration is great...but in knives, like many other physical goods, it is the results that count.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I guess I will jump in here and give my 2 cents on collaborations from a makers stand point. I have collaborated with Lee twice, and it was a lot of fun. I highly respect Lee as a maker, and I had not doubt that whatever work he performed on the knife would be top notch. What also makes it enjoyable is the fact that I only had to focus on basically one part of the knife, and really get in there and spend as much time as it took to get it right.

Couple of pictures for you guys.....


Galyean/Williams Scorpion JYD
Galyean-Williams_01-ww.jpg


Williams/Galyean Iceman
ICEMAN2.jpg
 
Tim Galyean said:
I guess I will jump in here and give my 2 cents on collaborations from a makers stand point. I have collaborated with Lee twice, and it was a lot of fun. I highly respect Lee as a maker, and I had not doubt that whatever work he performed on the knife would be top notch. What also makes it enjoyable is the fact that I only had to focus on basically one part of the knife, and really get in there and spend as much time as it took to get it right.
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And what you both produced, Tim, is so VASTLY different from what you do individually that it perfectly illustrates my point...that the sum of the two parts should be greater(or different, and still damned fine) than the individuals alone.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Bladeandbarrel said:
Jim Crowell gets $1250 for a 10" bowie.
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We kind of have two threads in one going here.

Buddy's seemingly simple question, "what is the retail or market price of this knife" can be a complex question these days.
Price from who?

Maker's price is usually the easiest to quote. Those of us who follow particular makers usually know almost exactly what they will charge for a particular knife.

Many dealers will tell you they offer knives at maker's prices, however those of us who buy form makers know this isn't true many times. It's more like what market will bare. Those who surf the dealer sites daily can quote pretty close to dealer retail.

As far as the secondary market, :eek: collectors are selling knives these days anywhere from A to Z and anywhere in between.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
As far as collaborations as a whole are concerned, I think that when a great knife maker gets together with a great engraver, scrimshander, carver, etc. that it can add greatly to the value of a knife, and to its appeal. When it is two or more makers getting together, it depends on the makers. If one of the them is really famous and the other isn't, the knife will be worth more than one from the lesser known maker, and less than one from the really famous one. If AG Barnes and Moran collaborated on a knife (actually they did), the knife would never be worth as much as a sole authorship Moran, but would be worth more than one from AG Barnes. If the makers are at about the same level in the marketplace, it is my opinion that the future value would be less than what a sole authorship knife from either one of the makers would be. However, if one got really famous, that would likely pull the value of the knife up.

Anyway, that's my opinion, for what it's worth.
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I guess there's different opinions as to what constitutes collaboration?
IMO, I don't consider a maker hiring another maker or whomever to engrave, carve, scrimshaw a piece a collaboration. A collaboration is a joint effort from beginning to end if not in actual task then in design, planning, material selection and some degree of the making of the knife.
 
Kevin Jones said:
I guess there's different opinions as to what constitutes collaboration?
IMO, I don't consider a maker hiring another maker or whomever to engrave, carve, scrimshaw a piece a collaboration. A collaboration is a joint effort from beginning to end if not in actual task then in design, planning, material selection and some degree of the making of the knife.
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Then yes, we do not share the same opinion as to what constitutes a collaboration.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
Then yes, we do not share the same opinion as to what constitutes a collaboration.
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My definition of collaboration is similar to Kevin's. The two or more makers agree, or are happy with, and have a say in/sign, the finished output.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Keith Montgomery said:
Then yes, we do not share the same opinion as to what constitutes a collaboration.
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Where a knife is designed around a particular theme and the engraving is an integral part of this theme can constitute a collaboration IMO.
This Ron Lake/Stanley Stoltz "Big Horn" theme masterpiece could be and example of this.

Lake_Stoltz-w.jpg
 
i am not crazy about people using other's damascus.....actually i really can't stand it and would never buy a knife in damascus not made by the maker...
Ryan ,
You posted this on 9-19. Look s like you may of had a change of heart.

I'm in agreement with Kevin and STeven as to what constitutes a collaboration.
 
The collaborations that I tend to like are ones where the two makers come from different "schools" The recent Hanson/Hogstrom collaboration springs to mind as does the "Wild Goo" bowie set. In both of those cases, working with Anders and Chuck seem to inspire Don and Tai to do something quite a bit different from what they would normally do on there own knives.
 
Here is another collaboration, but of a different type. A bit of a tradition got going in the ABS whereby bladesmiths who tested for and received their MS rating at the BLADE Show getting together and collaborating on a knife to be auctioned at the next BLADE Show, as a benefit for the ABS.

I started hanging around these annual ABS auctions at BLADE when I realized that some nice things could be had for a pretty good price. In fact, the second time I sniped that auction I was actually embarassed and felt badly for the makers who donated stuff only to see it bring much less than expected. Anyway, here it is:
orig.jpg


Coop did a nice job on this one, doncha think?

Collaborators were:
Heather Harvey - damascus billet
Kevin Harvey - forged and ground blade
Bruce Bump - handle except fossil ivory
Sava Damlovac - fluted ivory handle with gold wire twist
Michael Vagnino - scabbard (not shown)

And I'll share this:
Another experienced and respected bladesmith said to me, not knowing I'd "won" this MS collaboration at the auction, "Why I'd never buy one one of those things. Anyone who works on it will be in a hurry trying to squeeze it in between all the new orders they got on the heels of getting their MS. Believe me, it's probably not their best work."
 
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