Collecting handmade knives w/ critique, agendas, why? and some truths...

I've come back and re-read this thread a few times now. I've not met any of those who have posted here in person but, I've learned a lot from many of you. STeven, I find you to be blunt to the point of slightly abrasive but with conviction and integrity and I have to say, I completely respect that! The tidbits of advice you've given me have been as important as any maker has given and I truly appreciate you taking the time. Mark, your dedication to protecting the knifemakers livelihood shines through in most every post you make. Joe, I've never directly addressed you but, I've taken note of the many contributions you make and watched several of your videos. You are obviously very passionate about knives and knife skills and I've learned a lot about feel, balance, knife speed and alternate grips from you. I am looking forward to my first trip to Blade this year and hope that I get a chance to shake the hands of the many who have been so helpful for me in my knifemaker journey.

Bob
 
I've come back and re-read this thread a few times now. I've not met any of those who have posted here in person but, I've learned a lot from many of you. STeven, I find you to be blunt to the point of slightly abrasive but with conviction and integrity and I have to say, I completely respect that! The tidbits of advice you've given me have been as important as any maker has given and I truly appreciate you taking the time. Mark, your dedication to protecting the knifemakers livelihood shines through in most every post you make. Joe, I've never directly addressed you but, I've taken note of the many contributions you make and watched several of your videos. You are obviously very passionate about knives and knife skills and I've learned a lot about feel, balance, knife speed and alternate grips from you. I am looking forward to my first trip to Blade this year and hope that I get a chance to shake the hands of the many who have been so helpful for me in my knifemaker journey.

Bob

Bob

Please come and visit me at the DISKIN USA booth

We are going big this year and will have lotsa room to hangout and chat

I will be shooting videos and would love to meet you and spend some time

Thanks for the kind words
 
Interesting thread.

Truth. Is there any such thing as absolute truth? We all have out own truths and there is a lot of overlap, but also much room for disagreement about what is true.

STeven quoted the following in the OP:

You and STeven have some pretty refined tastes (again not "class" but style), I'm glad not all collectors are that way, some us would not stand a chance.

All the best, Mark

On this topic, my truth is the following.

I believe that custom knives have evolved beyond proving their worth simple on the basis of functionality a long time ago. Maybe 40 years ago when Bob Loveless was out in Lawndale, California making knives with better designs and seeking and using better steels, a "benchmade" knife provided a level of performance that one could not find in mass produced knives. IMO, those days are long passed, along with the exciting tales of the amazing benefits of edgepacking. And yet at the exact same time that the performance gap between custom handmade knives and mass produced knives (whether they be factory knives or "midtech" knives) has narrowed to next to nothing, the price differentials have shot through the roof. I believe that it is cheaper and easier today to find high performing knives with excellent steels at lower prices than at any time . . . maybe ever.

Put more bluntly, I do not need a $1000, $2000, $5000, or $8000 knife to meet all my cutting needs - and I sure don't need several of them. I can get that for several hundred dollars at most.

That is a long way to say that in my truth, there MUST be something extra beyond mere functionality to merit a handmade or custom knife commanding prices that are 10, 30, 40, 100 times those of mass produced knives which in so many cases so damn good.

From things I read, I suppose that for some folks that "something extra" is tied up in some kind of romantic idea of the sole knifemaker, toiling long hours into the night in his shop, pounding the steel, polishing the blade, hours and hours of hard work and sweat . . . pouring his/her heart and soul into each blade. There is I guess some kind of satisfaction and pleasure in owning a "one-of-a-kind" knife that you can imagine was made with "old school" techniques. That is sweet, but that doesn't do it for me. DSFDF.

For some other folks, that "something extra" is clearly its perceived ability to appreciate in value and be sold tomorrow (or even later today) than it was purchased for earlier today. But I do not flip knives and I personally rarely ever sell a knife. I am not in it for profit (not that there is anything wrong with that!). So for me, that is not it.

In my truth, that "something extra" is found in extreme attention to detail, fit and finish, superb artistic embellishment, high quality materials, and that all aspects of the knife are superlative. The proportions should be correct. The grind should be right. Needless to say the blade should be sharp and without visible inclusions in the steel. The solder joint at the guard (if there is a solder joint), should be smooth, thin, uniform, and without gaps. Everything should be aligned correctly. The guard should not be canted or off axis with the blade and tang. If is engraved, for the kind of money I am spending the engraving should be excellent. If there are screws or pins, they should match in color and alignment.

That is not to say that every knife I have purchased has achieved that standard. They haven't. And when I have obtained a knife by a custom order and it fell short of that, it has been disappointing . . . but not the end of the world. But as I get older and as my collection has filled out, it becomes harder and harder for me personally to justify purchasing another knife for thousands of dollars and adding to my collection unless it meets those standards - or "refined tastes" if you want to call it that.

Anyway, that is my truth I doubt it is exactly anyone else's, but I am sure there is some overlap with the truths of more than one other collector. I would love to hear the truths of the top collectors with the best six and seven figure (and more) collections who never or almost never post here, because I think maybe I could learn a lot from their truths.
 
From things I read, I suppose that for some folks that "something extra" is tied up in some kind of romantic idea of the sole knifemaker, toiling long hours into the night in his shop, pounding the steel, polishing the blade, hours and hours of hard work and sweat . . . pouring his/her heart and soul into each blade. There is I guess some kind of satisfaction and pleasure in owning a "one-of-a-kind" knife that you can imagine was made with "old school" techniques. That is sweet, but that doesn't do it for me. DSFDF.

....

In my truth, that "something extra" is found in extreme attention to detail, fit and finish, superb artistic embellishment, high quality materials, and that all aspects of the knife are superlative. The proportions should be correct. The grind should be right. Needless to say the blade should be sharp and without visible inclusions in the steel. The solder joint at the guard (if there is a solder joint), should be smooth, thin, uniform, and without gaps. Everything should be aligned correctly. The guard should not be canted or off axis with the blade and tang. If is engraved, for the kind of money I am spending the engraving should be excellent. If there are screws or pins, they should match in color and alignment.

These ring true with me.

At the moment, I only own one custom folder. I had Darrel Ralph make this for me as functional sobriety chip when I came up on my One Year AA birthday.





And you better believe that it gets carried and used... never babied.
 
Interesting thread.

Truth. Is there any such thing as absolute truth? We all have out own truths and there is a lot of overlap, but also much room for disagreement about what is true.

STeven quoted the following in the OP:



On this topic, my truth is the following.

I believe that custom knives have evolved beyond proving their worth simple on the basis of functionality a long time ago. Maybe 40 years ago when Bob Loveless was out in Lawndale, California making knives with better designs and seeking and using better steels, a "benchmade" knife provided a level of performance that one could not find in mass produced knives. IMO, those days are long passed, along with the exciting tales of the amazing benefits of edgepacking. And yet at the exact same time that the performance gap between custom handmade knives and mass produced knives (whether they be factory knives or "midtech" knives) has narrowed to next to nothing, the price differentials have shot through the roof. I believe that it is cheaper and easier today to find high performing knives with excellent steels at lower prices than at any time . . . maybe ever.

Put more bluntly, I do not need a $1000, $2000, $5000, or $8000 knife to meet all my cutting needs - and I sure don't need several of them. I can get that for several hundred dollars at most.

That is a long way to say that in my truth, there MUST be something extra beyond mere functionality to merit a handmade or custom knife commanding prices that are 10, 30, 40, 100 times those of mass produced knives which in so many cases so damn good.

From things I read, I suppose that for some folks that "something extra" is tied up in some kind of romantic idea of the sole knifemaker, toiling long hours into the night in his shop, pounding the steel, polishing the blade, hours and hours of hard work and sweat . . . pouring his/her heart and soul into each blade. There is I guess some kind of satisfaction and pleasure in owning a "one-of-a-kind" knife that you can imagine was made with "old school" techniques. That is sweet, but that doesn't do it for me. DSFDF.

For some other folks, that "something extra" is clearly its perceived ability to appreciate in value and be sold tomorrow (or even later today) than it was purchased for earlier today. But I do not flip knives and I personally rarely ever sell a knife. I am not in it for profit (not that there is anything wrong with that!). So for me, that is not it.

In my truth, that "something extra" is found in extreme attention to detail, fit and finish, superb artistic embellishment, high quality materials, and that all aspects of the knife are superlative. The proportions should be correct. The grind should be right. Needless to say the blade should be sharp and without visible inclusions in the steel. The solder joint at the guard (if there is a solder joint), should be smooth, thin, uniform, and without gaps. Everything should be aligned correctly. The guard should not be canted or off axis with the blade and tang. If is engraved, for the kind of money I am spending the engraving should be excellent. If there are screws or pins, they should match in color and alignment.

That is not to say that every knife I have purchased has achieved that standard. They haven't. And when I have obtained a knife by a custom order and it fell short of that, it has been disappointing . . . but not the end of the world. But as I get older and as my collection has filled out, it becomes harder and harder for me personally to justify purchasing another knife for thousands of dollars and adding to my collection unless it meets those standards - or "refined tastes" if you want to call it that.

Anyway, that is my truth I doubt it is exactly anyone else's, but I am sure there is some overlap with the truths of more than one other collector. I would love to hear the truths of the top collectors with the best six and seven figure (and more) collections who never or almost never post here, because I think maybe I could learn a lot from their truths.

Ken, I don't think that anyone can argue with you, it's your darn collection and you can collect anyway you choose. The problem arises when derogatory terms are used to describe the work of another person. I have said it before, and I am sure people are getting sick of my broken record, but, any intelligent person ought to be able to make his or her point without using insulting or derogatory terms.

In a former post you asked who was insulted by what you said. When you use terms like "lazy" and "cutting corners" to describe a particular aspect of knife making you insult everyone that doesn't share your way of thinking. Honestly, in my opinion, there is no way to take those words out of context.

Just to be clear, I don't have a particular animosity toward you, I think you are a good guy, you are an astute, and intelligent collector. We have had very good dealings in the past. I sometimes just wish you (and others) could choose your words as carefully as you choose your knives.

With that, I will speak of it no more, unless provoked.

My best to you, and everyone.
 
I originally posted something longer, but I do not want to pollute this thread any more than necessary.

Mark, if you want to continue this, I would prefer that you please take it to SS or e-mail instead of carrying this over from thread to thread here. But of course do as you wish.

In the meantime, I will try not to be insulted by your polite reference to my "darn collection." :rolleyes:
 
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I originally posted something longer, but I do not want to pollute this thread any more than necessary.

Mark, if you want to continue this, I would prefer that you please take it to SS or e-mail instead of carrying this over from thread to thread here. But of course do as you wish.

In the meantime, I will try not to be insulted by your polite reference to my "darn collection." :rolleyes:

As I already said, I am done talking about this. It is funny though, that you take offense to my use of the word "darn", maybe you can see how others might be offended by "Lazy" and "Cutting corners"

We don't have make a big deal out of this, I have given my opinion and you have given yours. I am happy to let it go if you are.

PS, what we have to say about this is in my view for the benefit of everybody, and since I have no beef with you in particular I have no reason to take this behind the scenes. What I have said applies to how I think all people should be treating each other in all forms of media. Just my two scents, I am sorry if you disagree.
 
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Interesting thread.

Truth. Is there any such thing as absolute truth? We all have out own truths and there is a lot of overlap, but also much room for disagreement about what is true.

If you ask a lawyer what the truth is, you are likely to get a different answer at any given time.

The truths were mine, and supported with some observations......your truths may be different, as your experiences are different....but yes, there is room for disagreement.

.......Anyway, that is my truth I doubt it is exactly anyone else's, but I am sure there is some overlap with the truths of more than one other collector. I would love to hear the truths of the top collectors with the best six and seven figure (and more) collections who never or almost never post here, because I think maybe I could learn a lot from their truths.

They don't post here for a variety of reasons, but if you want to get their opinions, print this out or access it on a tablet or something and show it to them at the AKI. I'll be there this year. Couple different people made convincing arguments for my presence, so there it is.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
This is Truth. "A point for piercing, an edge for cutting, a handle for control and a scabbard to keep it safe."
From the book, Tanto, by Russell Maynard.
rolf
 
I admit I have not followed this whole thread, but from what I understand, Lycosa just made the best statement. Nicely stated.
 
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