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Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
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Collection Liquidation - Profit or Loss?
- Thread starter Kevin Jones
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For liquidation purposes, where the key is to get rid of your collection quickly, eBay and dealers are best.
If the key is not time but ROI, forums are best, but it would take you a while.
eBay is really weird. Some knives are priced at crazy price, and some others go sold for 50% discounts. Go figure. I have made good purchases and sales on eBay.
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Variables: maker, type of knife (folder-slip joint etc, fixed-bowie, hunter, camp etc.), time from purchase to re-sale, % profit or loss. Additional information such as whether the maker is an Apprentice, JS, MS or not affiliated with the ABS. Also interesting to note if hamons or damascus are more desirable in the aftermarket. Try to eliminate variables that pertain to personal taste such as handle material or other peaves and assume these are in mint or as "new" condtion which many of these sold usually are.
Les Robertson
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Hi Joss,
I have gotten into heated arguments on this very forum with collectors who only buy what they like. They don't think about getting rid of the knife in any way, shape or form. They go so far as to say they will never get rid of any of their knives.
As well I tell them that buying only what they like excludes them for complaining when they go to sell or trade the knife and get less than they think they should.
A pure hobbyist cannot complain if their hobby "item" does not hold it's value when the decide to move it.
Hobbyist, who buy things with the potential to make money, are not hobbyist. They are investors....true probably not very good investors as they still let he hobby heart override the investor brain.
Then there are the investors who buy primarily for profit and will not buy a knife that they don't feel has the potential to return a profit. However, you can buy knives as investor in certain market sectors that will return a profit.
As Randy pointed out about his coin collecting (another numismatic trueism) but the very best you can afford. The books that are available with regards to Walking Quarters gave Randy insight into what he should be buying. MS62 coins are sought after and if purchased at a fair price will almost always give you a profit when sold.
Custom knives are almost the exact opposite which is why it is a "complex hobby".
Even those with a fair amount of disposable income generally are not buying the best custom knife they can afford. Why not? Because there are no books to tell them what is the best knife they can afford. Consequently, for most custom knife buyers, years and thousands of dollars are spent on their education to teach them one knife at a time what is a good and is not a good value.
This is why so many people say they "buy what they like". It is a defensive mechanism to hide the fact that they have not done their homework. For a lot of these collectors they want to blame someone else when the sale (of the knife they said they would never get rid of) does not go as they had hoped.
WWG
I have gotten into heated arguments on this very forum with collectors who only buy what they like. They don't think about getting rid of the knife in any way, shape or form. They go so far as to say they will never get rid of any of their knives.
As well I tell them that buying only what they like excludes them for complaining when they go to sell or trade the knife and get less than they think they should.
A pure hobbyist cannot complain if their hobby "item" does not hold it's value when the decide to move it.
Hobbyist, who buy things with the potential to make money, are not hobbyist. They are investors....true probably not very good investors as they still let he hobby heart override the investor brain.
Then there are the investors who buy primarily for profit and will not buy a knife that they don't feel has the potential to return a profit. However, you can buy knives as investor in certain market sectors that will return a profit.
As Randy pointed out about his coin collecting (another numismatic trueism) but the very best you can afford. The books that are available with regards to Walking Quarters gave Randy insight into what he should be buying. MS62 coins are sought after and if purchased at a fair price will almost always give you a profit when sold.
Custom knives are almost the exact opposite which is why it is a "complex hobby".
Even those with a fair amount of disposable income generally are not buying the best custom knife they can afford. Why not? Because there are no books to tell them what is the best knife they can afford. Consequently, for most custom knife buyers, years and thousands of dollars are spent on their education to teach them one knife at a time what is a good and is not a good value.
This is why so many people say they "buy what they like". It is a defensive mechanism to hide the fact that they have not done their homework. For a lot of these collectors they want to blame someone else when the sale (of the knife they said they would never get rid of) does not go as they had hoped.
WWG
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- Feb 27, 2003
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- 2,369
Stephen,
imho, "New entrants" to the market. do not buy knives from you or me right now, or ever will.
The propective purchasers, that I have encountered from my knife offerings on this site, usually are quite sophisticated buyers. They may not post very much, but they are certainly very interested in expanding their knowledge and acquiring good examples from good makers. They don't seem to find some homework to be a burden at all. My guess is that they will be doing just fine.
EVERYONE is going to make collecting mistakes. Some days it rains, and we all can get wet. You can forget your umbrella or trench coat. You can skip the weather forcast and not bother looking at the sky. But please don't look for any sympathy when you get soaked.
P
Les Robertson
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Hi Joss,
I have to add something to you comment about "institutional buyers" in the coin market. Without exception the coin can be returned if the buyer does not agree with the sellers valuation of the coins condition.
If the seller says the coin is MS (Mint State) 62 and it is only a MS 61. The deal will fall through. Usually you see this when a person is selling a BU (Brilliant Uncirculated) and try to sell it as a MS 60.
When you are buying and selling coins....Homework is required.
WWG
I have to add something to you comment about "institutional buyers" in the coin market. Without exception the coin can be returned if the buyer does not agree with the sellers valuation of the coins condition.
If the seller says the coin is MS (Mint State) 62 and it is only a MS 61. The deal will fall through. Usually you see this when a person is selling a BU (Brilliant Uncirculated) and try to sell it as a MS 60.
When you are buying and selling coins....Homework is required.
WWG
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I am enjoying every word being discussed in this thread. It has taken off like a roman candle with its intensity. Nice to know how much passion we have for our collections and acquisitions.
If I was asked, I'd still stand in Stephen F's corner. I more understand and empathize with his philosophy. Like Randy, I am also guily of being an impulse buyer. But, I have also learned how to make lemonade out of lemons. Happens on occasion.
That said, I have learned enough from the cautionary conversations and advices from the others in this thread, that I don't feel my purchase choices are random.
'Buy what you like': Why is this term so precautionary? How in the world could you enjoy collecting if you didn't?
Well, it's a balance: BWYL gives immediate and aesthetic enjoyement. Albeit it may come at a price down the road. For others the enjoyment of a good value upon resale dominates their mindset. They can only feel good about the collection if there is the potential for growth or at the least without a loss.
My experience is that we pay for many things in life that give us pleasure, and don't get it financially back in return.
Neither philosophy is bad. Both return enjoyment. How you base your enjoyment is a valid position.
As Randy and Kevin pointed out, if you want to make money collect and sell something else. Then buy what you really like.
Thanks,
Coop
If I was asked, I'd still stand in Stephen F's corner. I more understand and empathize with his philosophy. Like Randy, I am also guily of being an impulse buyer. But, I have also learned how to make lemonade out of lemons. Happens on occasion.
That said, I have learned enough from the cautionary conversations and advices from the others in this thread, that I don't feel my purchase choices are random.
'Buy what you like': Why is this term so precautionary? How in the world could you enjoy collecting if you didn't?
Well, it's a balance: BWYL gives immediate and aesthetic enjoyement. Albeit it may come at a price down the road. For others the enjoyment of a good value upon resale dominates their mindset. They can only feel good about the collection if there is the potential for growth or at the least without a loss.
My experience is that we pay for many things in life that give us pleasure, and don't get it financially back in return.
Neither philosophy is bad. Both return enjoyment. How you base your enjoyment is a valid position.
As Randy and Kevin pointed out, if you want to make money collect and sell something else. Then buy what you really like.
Thanks,
Coop
Les Robertson
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Hi Starkman,
The information you are seeking will not be found here or anywhere else on the Internet. Yes you will here about those who sold X Makers knife for twice what they paid for it. Conversely you will not hear about those knives which sold for 20% of the purchase price. Kind of like people who come back from Vegas, what you hear about is the money they won, not what they lost. But as well all know, its not the winners that are paying that "Light" bill in Vegas.
The information you seek will be found primarily though your own purchases and subsequent sales. Because only you know what your ROI percentage is. Only you know what is a satisfactory turn around time, etc.
WWG
Has spent Millions of Dollars getting his knife education.
The information you are seeking will not be found here or anywhere else on the Internet. Yes you will here about those who sold X Makers knife for twice what they paid for it. Conversely you will not hear about those knives which sold for 20% of the purchase price. Kind of like people who come back from Vegas, what you hear about is the money they won, not what they lost. But as well all know, its not the winners that are paying that "Light" bill in Vegas.
The information you seek will be found primarily though your own purchases and subsequent sales. Because only you know what your ROI percentage is. Only you know what is a satisfactory turn around time, etc.
WWG
Has spent Millions of Dollars getting his knife education.
- Joined
- May 9, 2000
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- 29,205
I have not sold or traded a knife in over three years. I don't purchase knives with the intention of moving them. They are bought for me and have always come directly from the maker. Guys like me are not involved in the secondary market, and are of no benefit to dealers or other collectors that are looking to sell knives. The only reasons that I have started looking at the future resale value of the knives I purchase is that an emegency, or my death may lead to selling of my collection. If I have to sell my knives, or if my beneficiaries decide to liquidate my collection, I want the value to have increased.
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Kevin,
I agree with you that there is no one best place to sell knives. I think ebay is okay for low end custums. I think that purveyors are an option, but most on the return would go to them. I think that forums are good, but I agree that if a knife isn't sold right away, the price seems to go down. I quess one other option is other collectors who coleect the same makers, but they aren't always easy to find. That's what makes knife collecting interesting.
A long time ago I asked a purveyor "Where is the best place to purchase a Moran knife?" He replied "Oh you mean from the widow." I hope that if I ever sell my collection that it won't be that way. Jim Treacy
I agree with you that there is no one best place to sell knives. I think ebay is okay for low end custums. I think that purveyors are an option, but most on the return would go to them. I think that forums are good, but I agree that if a knife isn't sold right away, the price seems to go down. I quess one other option is other collectors who coleect the same makers, but they aren't always easy to find. That's what makes knife collecting interesting.
A long time ago I asked a purveyor "Where is the best place to purchase a Moran knife?" He replied "Oh you mean from the widow." I hope that if I ever sell my collection that it won't be that way. Jim Treacy
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Because the first part is knowledge about what you are looking at. Remember what we wrote about in "Dealbreakers?" thread? Fit, finish and flow will take some people the rest of their lives to learn and master. We ARE talking about collectors here, right?
Now factor in thoughts about maker's market position(determined by skills, price/return, and personality(maybe)), and that adds an element of complexity.
Tell me why you think it might be a simple hobby?
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
I don't think it is a simple hobby, and I continue to learn! But how much complexity do you think stems from knowledge needed of the knife, and how much from knowledge of the market in order to make money?
Cheers,
Stephen
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Les,
I come form a science background and the sole purpose of conducting research is to answer questions objectively and share information so that others may benefit from your work. Apply that to this situation, everyone wants to limit thier cost of thier education. I believe many new collectors may ultimatley abandon knives after getting burned a few times and this hurts the business as a whole. Les, you've got to be sitting on a pile of numbers.....wannna share?
I come form a science background and the sole purpose of conducting research is to answer questions objectively and share information so that others may benefit from your work. Apply that to this situation, everyone wants to limit thier cost of thier education. I believe many new collectors may ultimatley abandon knives after getting burned a few times and this hurts the business as a whole. Les, you've got to be sitting on a pile of numbers.....wannna share?
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Peter, regrarding sympathy, neither do I need it, nor do I ask for it .... if you think for one minute this is a personal discussion you are very much mistaken . My arguments and input in this are driven by a love of custom knives, and to further my understanding of how to grow and develop that. I have no investment strategy, no market portfolio to promote, my next 4 major purchases will never be sold for anything but a loss, they are highly personal pieces, but that is what floats my boat ....
Stephen
Les Robertson
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Hi Coop,
You quoted Randy and Kevin in your post
"As Randy and Kevin pointed out, if you want to make money collect and sell something else. Then buy what you really like."
Why would you take the time to make money buying and selling something you don't really have a passion for. When you can make money with buying the things you really do have a passion for?
The time you spent learning about the other thing you could have put towards learning about that which is your passion. Buying and selling things that are your passion will ultimately give you the reward you are seeking in both monetary and the joy of being involved in the hobby.
My passion is custom knives. I make my living within custom knives. Everything that I have bought and paid for over the last 12 years has been done through the purchase and sale of that which is my passion. However, my passion is not merely about monetary gain.
My passion has introuduce me thousands of people I would have never met. Many of these people have become my friends. My passion has given me the opportunity to judge custom knife competition, to do seminars for both collectors and makers in the US and Canada. My passion has given me the knowledge to write a book on collecting and subsequently the opportunity write for Blade and Knives Illustrated. My passion has given me the opportunity to design, market and sell my own line of custom knives....Twice!
How much of this would I have lost if I spent time dealing in something else before dealing in that which I am passionate about?
Ok, I am now stepping off of my soap box and putting it back under my desk.
If you are not passionate about what you are doing...why are you doing it?
WWG
Distributor of Passion Fruit in the SE United States....as well as some of the manure that grows it (Thought I would beat some of you cynical SOBs to it
)
You quoted Randy and Kevin in your post
"As Randy and Kevin pointed out, if you want to make money collect and sell something else. Then buy what you really like."
Why would you take the time to make money buying and selling something you don't really have a passion for. When you can make money with buying the things you really do have a passion for?
The time you spent learning about the other thing you could have put towards learning about that which is your passion. Buying and selling things that are your passion will ultimately give you the reward you are seeking in both monetary and the joy of being involved in the hobby.
My passion is custom knives. I make my living within custom knives. Everything that I have bought and paid for over the last 12 years has been done through the purchase and sale of that which is my passion. However, my passion is not merely about monetary gain.
My passion has introuduce me thousands of people I would have never met. Many of these people have become my friends. My passion has given me the opportunity to judge custom knife competition, to do seminars for both collectors and makers in the US and Canada. My passion has given me the knowledge to write a book on collecting and subsequently the opportunity write for Blade and Knives Illustrated. My passion has given me the opportunity to design, market and sell my own line of custom knives....Twice!
How much of this would I have lost if I spent time dealing in something else before dealing in that which I am passionate about?
Ok, I am now stepping off of my soap box and putting it back under my desk.
If you are not passionate about what you are doing...why are you doing it?
WWG
Distributor of Passion Fruit in the SE United States....as well as some of the manure that grows it (Thought I would beat some of you cynical SOBs to it
)
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Dear Grumpy Stephen,
How is discussing this topic "over-emphasizing" it? It is a theme you have returned to in every post in this thread. Different views are being expressed.
Roger
Consider me a counter weight in the discussion ..... and as stated in my post above, my views are targeted at motivational and economic concepts .... if the thread stays alive long enough I may be able to post the model I am working on.
Stephen
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Stephen,
My RAIN statement was completely general in its nature. Be assured that I was NOT offering you any sympathy, whatsoever. You are sophisticated collector who knows exactly what he is about. I am envious of your patron of the arts approach.
Best,
Peter
My RAIN statement was completely general in its nature. Be assured that I was NOT offering you any sympathy, whatsoever. You are sophisticated collector who knows exactly what he is about. I am envious of your patron of the arts approach.
Best,
Peter
Les Robertson
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Hi Bob,
You are 100% correct. We lose countless collectors every year because they got "burned" (at least in their mind). This is due primarily to the "Get rich with no effort mentality" that things like the lottery encourage.
Too many collectors hear about someone buying a knife for next to nothing and selling it for a thousand dollars. Thinking they are sitting on a gold mine they try to sell their knife only to find it is not worth what they paid for it....in the After Market.
It is like taking test that you didn't study for and getting upset that you flunked.
As for the information I have accumulated. That was sold, along with my inventory and computer system to Edgewise Enterprises Inc (DBA Robertson's Custom Cutlery). As such is proprietary information of said Corporation.
However, they do have a prospectus for all who are interested. This information can be found at the DBAs Web Site. Makers, materials and pricing information is available for anyone to view.
Please note that 70% of the inventory that RCC sells, never makes it to the web site. As well please note the trade in policy. As it is always sunny on the web site an "Umbrella" is not necessary.
WWG
Slave to Corporate America.
You are 100% correct. We lose countless collectors every year because they got "burned" (at least in their mind). This is due primarily to the "Get rich with no effort mentality" that things like the lottery encourage.
Too many collectors hear about someone buying a knife for next to nothing and selling it for a thousand dollars. Thinking they are sitting on a gold mine they try to sell their knife only to find it is not worth what they paid for it....in the After Market.
It is like taking test that you didn't study for and getting upset that you flunked.
As for the information I have accumulated. That was sold, along with my inventory and computer system to Edgewise Enterprises Inc (DBA Robertson's Custom Cutlery). As such is proprietary information of said Corporation.
However, they do have a prospectus for all who are interested. This information can be found at the DBAs Web Site. Makers, materials and pricing information is available for anyone to view.
Please note that 70% of the inventory that RCC sells, never makes it to the web site. As well please note the trade in policy. As it is always sunny on the web site an "Umbrella" is not necessary.
WWG
Slave to Corporate America.
- Joined
- May 9, 2000
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- 29,205
If you buy a knife just because you like it, without a care in the world about resale value, things couldn't be more simple. You don't even have the worry about what anyone else thinks of the knife. Once you add the factor of resale into the equation, things get much more complicated. You no longer can make your decision based solely on your likes and dislikes, but you must also think of what will be desireable to others. If, beyond that you also add the intention of making your collection an investment, you add to the equation an element that requires a great deal of knowledge. If you don't have a great deal of money, you also add speculation to your collecting. You have to learn to recognize future greatness in makers whose knives you can afford.
Building a knowledge base about knives themselves is not very complicated, or difficult; at least it wasn't for me. Gaining knowledge about what makes a knife a good investment has been far more of a challenge.
Building a knowledge base about knives themselves is not very complicated, or difficult; at least it wasn't for me. Gaining knowledge about what makes a knife a good investment has been far more of a challenge.
Les Robertson
BANNED
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- Oct 10, 1998
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Hi Stephen,
Excellent Point!!!!
"Custom Knives: Superior Steel, Fine Art, Fiery Passion, Strong Opinions!"
WWG
Excellent Point!!!!
"Custom Knives: Superior Steel, Fine Art, Fiery Passion, Strong Opinions!"
WWG