Collection Liquidation - Profit or Loss?

Stephen F said:
I don't think it is a simple hobby, and I continue to learn! But how much complexity do you think stems from knowledge needed of the knife, and how much from knowledge of the market in order to make money?

Cheers,

Stephen
Click to expand...

First, I would say it's not a simple hobby, as nothing is if you are trying to make or keep from losing money at it.
Second, I would say that it's about equal knife and market knowledge.
That's why I concentrate on a small sector consisting of ABS higher end Hunters and Bowies. That's all I have mental capacity for. :confused::D

It's remarkable how broad STeven's knife knowledge is.
 
Starkman1 said:
Les,
I come form a science background and the sole purpose of conducting research is to answer questions objectively and share information so that others may benefit from your work. Apply that to this situation, everyone wants to limit thier cost of thier education. I believe many new collectors may ultimatley abandon knives after getting burned a few times and this hurts the business as a whole. Les, you've got to be sitting on a pile of numbers.....wannna share?
Click to expand...

I may send you some information off line that my help you get started as it's beneficial to all that new collectors get off on the right foot.
 
Stephen F said:
I don't think it is a simple hobby, and I continue to learn! But how much complexity do you think stems from knowledge needed of the knife, and how much from knowledge of the market in order to make money?

Cheers,

Stephen
Click to expand...

A lot.

IF you are talking-knife-cut-good, the complexity of knife knowledge has been reduced to a denominator that almost anyone can recognize.

IF you are talking about well fit bolsters, symmetrical plunge lines, a fantastic, hand rubbed 2000 grit satin finish, and a wood handle with 50 layers of Tru-oil on it, and how this particular knife might be "better" or "more refined" than others, well, that takes some time, and the more you learn, the higher the amount of reference points you are checking.

OBVIOUSLY, concurrent to that exercise is the discussion about money. That adds as much, if not more complexity to the equation as FFF, BUT, not everyone cares. That's cool.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Hi Les,

We speak the exact same language, and I enjoy the dialog. No one will EVER accuse me of not being passionate about my knives, nor you.

Like yourself I have somehow wheedled this passion to the point where it actually earns me money.

I got started because I bought what I liked. After a while I got educated and found out how to buy what I like--and not lose my shirt. All the while I learned more and found another avenue to expand my passion and worthiness.

I always find myself the underdog in these wonderfully hard-thinking conversations. I defer and bow to many smarter than me for their knowledge.

I will unfailingly try to help a person achieve their own photographic goals with little regard for my short-term consequences. The long-term gains for this education have carried me beyond my expectations. 80/20 rule?

I will submit that the president of Arbitrage Custom Knives, even as willingly ready to educate the custom knife buyer to bring in the best ROI, has made a greater profit from compulsive buyers who did not do their homework. And so it will be. 80/20 rule?

(I'm going to get smacked in the head with a 2x4" on this, but I had to....)

No one can take away our passion! :thumbup:

Coop
 
Kevin Jones said:
....
That's why I concentrate on a small sector consisting of ABS higher end Hunters and Bowies. That's all I have mental capacity for. :confused::D

It's remarkable how broad STeven's knife knowledge is.
Click to expand...

I have ADD(maybe), can't focus on any one specific thing in knives too long. Thanks for the compliment.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Hi Coop,

Should you look in the mirror you will see a red bruise with some swelling forming that seems to be approximately 4" wide.

You wrote:

"I will submit that the president of Arbitrage Custom Knives, even as willingly ready to educate the custom knife buyer to bring in the best ROI, has made a greater profit from compulsive buyers who did not do their homework. And so it will be. 80/20 rule?"

I in turn will submit back to you that those who partake of the offerings that RCC offers. Will become those who do their homework as the "teacher" stands ready to hand out assignments and grade said assignments providing the correct answers (at least for that moment in time) to the student. As well those who perhaps do not have the time to do the requisite homework. Can rest easy in their decision to purchase a knife knowing that with such a strong trade in policy the worst they can do is break even! That alone may be the only homework a collector needs to do.

Sadly as you have shown by your extraction of Pareto's 80/20 principle that those would would purchase custom knives without the requisite research. And/or purchase from someone else who has not done their homework. Or purchase from a dealer who's lack of knowledge of the custom knife market keeps them from standing behind the very knives they sell. Indeed those collectors will more than likely find themselves among the 80%.

Now, go put some ice on that bruise. <G>

WWG
Nationally Registered Emergency Medical Technician.
 
SharpByCoop said:
Hi Les,

We speak the exact same language, and I enjoy the dialog. No one will EVER accuse me of not being passionate about my knives, nor you.

Like yourself I have somehow wheedled this passion to the point where it actually earns me money.

I got started because I bought what I liked. After a while I got educated and found out how to buy what I like--and not lose my shirt. All the while I learned more and found another avenue to expand my passion and worthiness.

I always find myself the underdog in these wonderfully hard-thinking conversations. I defer and bow to many smarter than me for their knowledge.

I will unfailingly try to help a person achieve their own photographic goals with little regard for my short-term consequences. The long-term gains for this education have carried me beyond my expectations. 80/20 rule?

I will submit that the president of Arbitrage Custom Knives, even as willingly ready to educate the custom knife buyer to bring in the best ROI, has made a greater profit from compulsive buyers who did not do their homework. And so it will be. 80/20 rule?

(I'm going to get smacked in the head with a 2x4" on this, but I had to....)

No one can take away our passion! :thumbup:

Coop
Click to expand...

:jerkit: Coop, Is it still sore? I have never purchased a knife thinking about making a profit or reselling, I am keeper, I purchased a lot of Case stags in the late 70's and 80's that I still have and recently saw at Smokey Mountain Knife Works for sale. It seems what I liked then, it is really liked now, because the prices are 10 to 20 times what I paid for them. Still, I don't want to sell, Have a few customs by WT Fuller, Harvery McBurnette, but not because I want a profit, I enjoy looking and holding. By the way, I tried to reach Jack Feder, but had to leave message, thanks for the lead on Dick Dorough, sure hope he has one.
 
James Todd said:
:jerkit: Coop, Is it still sore? I have never purchased a knife thinking about making a profit or reselling, I am keeper

Still, I don't want to sell, Have a few customs by WT Fuller, Harvery McBurnette, but not because I want a profit, I enjoy looking and holding. By the way, I tried to reach Jack Feder, but had to leave message, thanks for the lead on Dick Dorough, sure hope he has one.
Click to expand...

What is the Jerkit smiley for, and what do you have to contribute besides saying that you own a pack of "graveyard knives", a small number of customs, at that?

A knife is not "worth" ANYTHING (except its' priceless value as a tool/weapon) until you SELL it.

This is the Customs Forum, not the Slipjoint/Classics Forum.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
the jerkit looks to me like someone rubbing his jaw after being hit with a 2x4, sorry if it offended you. Coop and I have shared quite a few emails and I was kinda rubbing it in, but that being said, I am sorry I mentioned having as you call graveyard knives, I will not say how many customs I have, but I read this forum because of my interest in them and some of its contributers. I think Harvey McBurnette, W T Fuller, and Dick Dorough qualify me as a custom holder and someone who is able to post.
 
James Todd said:
the jerkit looks to me like someone rubbing his jaw after being hit with a 2x4, sorry if it offended you. Coop and I have shared quite a few emails and I was kinda rubbing it in, but that being said, I am sorry I mentioned having as you call graveyard knives, I will not say how many customs I have, but I read this forum because of my interest in them and some of its contributers. I think Harvey McBurnette, W T Fuller, and Dick Dorough qualify me as a custom holder and someone who is able to post.
Click to expand...

Mr. Todd,

You didn't offend me, you irritated me.

If you read the Custom Forum on a regular basis, than you know that WWG and Coop have a decent relationship, and they both know what they like, and what they are talking about. I have a good relationship with both of them. You don't need to step into the middle of it. No good can come of it, and, especially, not the way that you just did it.

Harvey was a great man, and a great maker.

Was happy to have gotten some knives from him before he passed.

You are certainly qualified to post, anyone is. The question, is, if you are a "keeper", what insight do you offer in a post titled "Collection Liquidation-Profit or Loss"?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Please don't think that just because someone doesn't get into knives as an investment that they haven't done a lot of studying so that they will know more about the secondary market. Even though I don't sell, or trade, or purchase knives from other collectors or dealers, I still spend a fair bit of time educating myself about that part of the hobby/business. I do it, because I find it to be very interesting, and challenging.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
Please don't think that just because someone doesn't get into knives as an investment that they haven't done a lot of studying so that they will know more about the secondary market. Even though I don't sell, or trade, or purchase knives from other collectors or dealers, I still spend a fair bit of time educating myself about that part of the hobby/business. I do it, because I find it to be very interesting, and challenging.
Click to expand...

I don't think you have to worry about that.
As anyone can tell from any of your many post, that you are well versed in all areas of knife collecting and making.
 
I am formulating my reply and will get back to you later.

This topic always fascinates me, especially right now as I am getting ready to sell 15 ABS bowies..........
 
Well I'm one of those guys that buys knives to keep. Like has been said I think it's possible to make money selling knives but you have to do your homework. I agree with Steven that the most important thing is the individual knife in question. It might be a masterpiece or a run of the mill piece. Not that a standard work is not worthwhile but the exceptional pieces tend to garner more attention and will probably be easier to sell and get a better return. If you're buying from a popular maker that has an active aftermarket then you will have people to sell to. It might be so and so's best knife but if there aren't a lot of people collecting his knives you will probably have a hard time selling. Of course always buy low and sell high. You won't know the proper prices unless you do your homework but if you wait your turn on the list or buy at a show you will have room to sell for a profit. Buying from a knowledgable collector, even at a "good" price, will probably limit your potential for a return. As Joss mentioned though sometimes you will find a person selling low because of time constraints or lack of knowledge.

I think Stephen makes a good point though. I'm living the simple life and have a relatively small collection that I never intend to sell. If you spend what you can afford and take the time to do a little bit of homework to get an idea of the broad spectrum that's available and decide your own "niche" then knife collecting can be incredibly rewarding even if you never make a dime from it.
 
I love threads like this as they attract some great discussion and knowledgeable dealers and makers. The list of watchers always amazes me also.

In 90 days, if you positively had to sell your collection-

1)Get first rate photographs and document each piece well.
2)If any pieces need a fluff and buff, its a good time to send it to the maker and ask for a favor.
3) Get zippered cases or sheaths for all fixed blades.
4) Send an offering to top collectors and purveyors first. Give them first crack. Dealer L may have a customer who likes the knives of a particular maker. Let the makers you you need to sell some knives-they may actually help you sell them.
5)Hit the forums-price your knives realistically and answer emails promptly.
6)90 day Consignment
7)Auction. Auction will usually reduce the selling retail price of a quality custom knife up to 20-30%%, same as a dealers consignment fee in most cases.


Thats pretty much the order in my book.

IF you buy the best knives from the best makers at the best prices you will never lose money on the knife. You may never be able to REPLACE the knife at the price you sold it for, but that is another story.

You can't blame a purveyor if you bought knives by the "wrong" makers. Purveyors can only stay in business by selling what they can get, not what they cannot.
 
Advice buy all the slipjoints you can get your hands on.They are timelessand will always hold their value
Click to expand...

I would agree with slipjoints being a good segment of the custom knife market to invest in...its the "all" part that I disagree with:D
 
Stephen F said:
Its my hypothesis that this very complexity will lead to either over analysis and "safe" buying, or a rejection of the market completely by propsective collectors. The established collectors have as much as a responsibility as the makers and dealers to attract new blood. If we over emphasise the profit motive and the complexity, and preach self fullfilling prophecies we may fail!
Stephen
Click to expand...

Stephen, this is not just about profit and self fulfilling prophecies.
What about the responsibility of the collector to his primary makers and fellow collectors to help support the maker’s price structure?

If collectors keep selling maker's knives on the secondary market for hundreds of dollars less than they paid for them, our collections will be basically worthless and the makers will be out of business.

I know of two instances in the last week where very nice MS knives were sold at aprox. 60% of their current market value on this forum. And I assure you, those collectors were not in bad need of cash.
 
Kohai999 said:
A lot.

IF you are talking-knife-cut-good, the complexity of knife knowledge has been reduced to a denominator that almost anyone can recognize.

IF you are talking about well fit bolsters, symmetrical plunge lines, a fantastic, hand rubbed 2000 grit satin finish, and a wood handle with 50 layers of Tru-oil on it, and how this particular knife might be "better" or "more refined" than others, well, that takes some time, and the more you learn, the higher the amount of reference points you are checking.

OBVIOUSLY, concurrent to that exercise is the discussion about money. That adds as much, if not more complexity to the equation as FFF, BUT, not everyone cares. That's cool.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

That would only be a starting point. For pre-owned knives you also have to factor in the maker's current market appeal, which may be based as much on historical relevance (issued to the military, used by astronauts, favored by so and so, etc); or, other social issues (as in co-starring in a popular movie, or TV series), rather then just straight quality and condition. The seller is also an important factor. A well know and trusted dealer or owner will command a premium simply because they have established a consistency in how they classify their wears. I favor certain dealers, not because of their prices, but because I am comfortable that they will meet my expectations.

Other factors that can dramatically influence our hobby would have to include the regulatory environment (bans on sale, importion, and ownership of specific types and materials), and our ability to promote and pass on information. It doesn't matter if you chance upon King Arthur's true Excalibur; if most of the market is closed to you, if carriers are unwilling to accept your cargo, if the main stream media refuses to let you advertise; then you may as well sell the thing as scrap steel and recycle it into rebar.

Ours is a complexed hobby. It is well beyond fads like Pound Puppies and Pogs, and has a true and natural appeal to most people. Yet, it resides next to a regulatory precipice, and is enormously involved subject. Knives and rocks are our most basic of tools; to be human is to own knives; and to speak knives is to talk about the entire sum experience of the species.

n2s
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top