Colorado vs Japan/Taiwan/China

I'll go out on a limb, offend many here and agree that Golden knives in many cases fall short of the quality standards of Taiwanese and Japanese Spyderco knives, but you can't be serious when you say "exceptionally poor" - that's at best gross hyperbole. :rolleyes:

swegeek said:
The Military is my favourite design bar none but the issues with Golden's exceptionally poor fit n finish is simply too much for me to deal with; especially when some of the competition (read; Kershaw) is offering China made products with much, much better quality overall.

The thing that finally pushed me over the edge was a couple of Millies where the locking surfaces of the bar and tang wasn't flush and only caught the corner of the locking bar. I think if more people took the time to check on tolerance by shining a light at it to look for unsettling gaps the Millie's (and Golden's) stock would quickly plummet and call for a change, but as it stands Spyderco wont have to bother much with either customer service or improvements unless it's blatantly (and proven) dangerous like in version 1.0 of the Manix 2 and Para 2...
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The fact someone intent on damaging a knife can manage to do so does not make the knife unsafe.
 
I only have 3 Spyderco knives, one made in Golden (ti Military), the other two are made in Taichung, Tawain (PPT, Vallotton). All three are excellent in all aspects. But I have really been floored by the Vallotton, as it is as well built as a couple of custom folders I own! I don't think I've read anything negative about the builder in Taichung.
 
I've seen some nearly flawless knives from Golden and Japan. I've seen some rough ones from both, as well. Factory knives are factory knives. If you care about small details, either buy higher end or buy them in person from local shops and gun shows.
 
Put me on probation, too. I have no problem Spydercos, some of which are exceptionally heavy-duty. Like both the Natives I still have. I've given a couple Natives away because they were so reliable, I was sure I as doing the recipients a favor.

I don't take anti-fanbois any more seriously than fanbois. Spyderco has its defenders. The knives are good, why wouldn't we defend them? It is true some of us get carried away, and won't listen to criticism. Not good.

But there are also people who come here and have nothing good to say, and sometimes can't even be nice in saying it. Unnecessary. When the "proof" is 'go look up the video' I shrug and ignore them.
 
J85909266 said:
I've seen some nearly flawless knives from Golden and Japan. I've seen some rough ones from both, as well. Factory knives are factory knives. If you care about small details, either buy higher end or buy them in person from local shops and gun shows.
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When I'm settling with "less than less than perfect" from Golden but get perfectly crisp machining from relatively low cost Kershaw China, Victorinox, Leatherman, Cold Steel (you name it) time and time again it's not as simple as expecting too much though? I mean, I must have owned more than a dozen of different variations of Victorinox Alox through the years and I can't remember a single one that had as poor machining as some of the ones I've had from Golden. None of them I even bothered to inspect before hand because why would I? I expect the Victorinoc Alox, a $20 dollar knife with far more demanding tolerances, to be pretty much perfect each and every single time.

So why shouldn't you expect the same thing from Golden and a $50-$280 knife...?


Just the other day some dude had to actually ask if this rough machining on a $220+ knife was acceptable:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/885304-Is-this-acceptable

The reply was of course that it was and he was being "picky" which is downright silly considering. The knife should have never left the factory with a full price tag as the odds were pretty good some poor bastard was bound to feel some level of disappointment no matter how you chose to look at the flaws themselves. And the company was of course nowhere to be seen (must have been busy answering praise in another thread somewhere?).


This guy even makes a buck selling sprint Para 2's with no blade play. For an additional $120 on top of the $220+ you normally pay you can get one with proper machining. It's quite a "bargain", unfortunately made possible by Golden's lack of control.

http://www.neptuneknives.com/paramilitary-2-sprint-run-cts-20cp-4.html

"Only three out of 20 have no blade play. This is very rare. Search about the subject. Of the 30 I picked up these three are the only ones with literally no blade play. If you're into the knife the combination of steel & lock up is the best of what you may be able to find without directly choosing from in person among a large batch. This knife is no longer in production so we value these highly."


Spyderco can do a lot better than this imo. You shouldn't have to consider risking getting a knife with blade play you can't adjust. Nor a knife with a liner-lock that's potentially unsafe and will wear like a pair of socks. Nor a knife that's prone to fail from simple testing. Nor rough machining on a $220+ knife. Not from Spyderco – not from anyone else. You are not buying a folder for christ's sake; stuff should be, if not perfect, then pretty damn close to it. It's 2011, not the 90's. We've got computers, CAD and CNC.

Esav Benyamin said:
Put me on probation, too. I have no problem Spydercos, some of which are exceptionally heavy-duty. Like both the Natives I still have. I've given a couple Natives away because they were so reliable, I was sure I as doing the recipients a favor.

I don't take anti-fanbois any more seriously than fanbois. Spyderco has its defenders. The knives are good, why wouldn't we defend them? It is true some of us get carried away, and won't listen to criticism. Not good.

But there are also people who come here and have nothing good to say, and sometimes can't even be nice in saying it. Unnecessary. When the "proof" is 'go look up the video' I shrug and ignore them.
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I never meant to come across as rude to any one person in particular so my sincere apologies if I did. Never liked school as much as I did chasing girls and doing retarded stuff so my english isn't what it could be and nuancing it can be a bit of a hassle. The "probation" (?) I know nothing about and for the record feel it's unecessary if it's because of me – nothing written in reply came across as too harsch for me so hopefully not.

.........................

About Spyderco I own enough of them to consider myself a believer; I'm just not that keen on Golden's QC and I've said as much. In fact – the one buy I've made through BF is a Spyderco Military and I was very happy with it so hardly a "anti-fanboi". I just feel that Golden could do far more when checking their products before shipping them for sale because as a buyer I'm getting a far bigger share of lemons than I'd normally expect. If you're in the US it's a PITA – if you're overseas it's a PITA a-n-d even more money than you've already paid on top of taxes, VAT and shipping (close to $200 sometimes for a regular Millie when all is said and done). You have to really love the Golden products to go through the hassle and it's not doing either the overseas customers or the company any good.

Furthermore I've paid more than enough to voice my opinion in a topic specifically related to the subject matter even if it means I'm being a total d**k and/or completely and utterly wrong in some people's eyes, so I'm not feeling especially guilty about it either. My brand loyalty is admittedly nill and I could care less if Apple's feelings get hurt on account of them stiffing me on QC. That is an absurd proposition and one I don't feel obliged to following with neither Spyderco or anyone else I give my hard earned cash in exchange for a product sold as new. If Spyderco was half as apologetic as some of it's fanbase I wouldn't have had several bad experiences with their CS while having no problem what so ever with someone like Giovanni at SOG (eventhough the latter is said the be a representative of the knife worlds corporate satan and the former the second coming of Jesus). If the company is even a quarter as apologetic as some of it's customers they have also got on top of the issue sprint run issue linked above without even thinking about it because that's what I and I think most people on the board would have done ("a deal isn't finished until both parties are happy", right?). But who knows; maybe they settled it and simply decided not to post it? Good on them if they have. I would expect nothing less from a company that used to be second to none in CS and QC.
 
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Interesting thread. We do appreciate all of the comments.

While you might find it hard to believe, making knives with the steels that we use, the many models that we create and small quantities we build does offer it's challenges. Challenges that are not the same for a company making very large volume with much "less stubborn" materials, or a company that makes only the same models for long periods.

We selct our makers based on their abilities to meet our quality demands. It is also surprizing that even with all of their skills, the daily maintenance of very high quality might vary in a maker. eg: Someone's passes away or retires with 40 years of skill. Has to have an effect on their production.

I know that our US factory has been increasing it's capacity and quality standards consistently for the past 5 years. While we're always pushing the envelope with our makers, they too are small factories and each has their own limitations.

Hi Swegeek and Offthegrid,

Welcome to the Spyderco forum. Hope you enjoy your time spent here. This is a good place to learn much about Spyderco, assume you have interest?

sal
 
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I'm a Spyderco fan, but I certainly agree with swegeek that Spyderco's fanbase mostly are immune to even moderate reasonable criticism and usually react in decidedly unfriendly ways. I guess it's a good thing that Sal and company manage to inspire such loyalty but I don't think anyone is served by turning a blind eye to whatever may be wrong. The irony is that Spyderco itself always listens and responds to and even acts on criticism, so why the diehard fans don't follow this example is a mystery to me.
Having said all that, and having handled quite a few Spyderco's (and owning about 20 now, including Byrds) I am honestly amazed at the horrible luck swegeek has had with his. I think I was one of the first to comment on the F&F of Golden being noticeably less perfect than that of Taiwan or even that of the Tenacious, but I've never had or even handled a Spyderco that wasn't 100% functional and safe. I also have had nothing but stellar experiences with Spyderco's customer service, who responded to every e-mail I ever sent within one working day.

I have no explanation to how come our experiences vary so wildly but they certainly do.
 
thanx Phil,

We can always depend on you to be straight and honest about your opinions. And contrary to the thoughts of some, we always take your opinions seriously.

sal
 
One thing that has bugged me about Spyderco, is buying a couple of brand new models (Golden) from dealers that had very poor finish on the clips. (scratches and bad marring) Now, these were really bad and the knives were BNIB. I would call Spyderco and talk to a person about it and be told, " You did not buy the knife directly from us, so we have no way if knowing what happened to it after it left the factory, we will not send you a new clip, with no charge."

So, I would have to buy one, because these knives were for my collection and I was not using them. I wanted them to look new! This is to me going too far, because the knives even though I did not buy them direct from, Spyderco were BNIB and from stocking dealers. I have had other companies send me clips and screws no charge and often just on my word, for new knives, even when I did not purchase directly from them. (and come on just who commonly buys directly from a manufacturer at full retail?)

While I have been treated very well, by Sal and he has always went out of his way to fix anything I needed, when I asked. This deal of being told, you did not buy the knife from us, so we won't send a new clip did rub me the wrong way. And I realize many people think a clip is not a big deal, as it will get damaged if you carry the knife. Some of us do not use every knife we buy and would like the black painted clips to at least look brand new, when we receive the knife NIB. Not like someone had been carrying the knife, as more than one I've received has.
 
jill jackson said:
While I have been treated very well, by Sal and he has always went out of his way to fix anything I needed, when I asked. This deal of being told, you did not buy the knife from us, so we won't send a new clip did rub me the wrong way.
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I think you are right to be annoyed, but wrong to take it up with Spyderco. The responsibility lies with the dealer first (also, you may wanna inspect the knife before buying it). He should sell you a new, 100% mint condition knife. Nothing else will do for your good money.
Perhaps if a dealer consistently fails his responsibilities should you contact Spyderco, but it would be about him, not the knife.
 
Like sal said, S90v, m4, cts-20cp are harder do grind than aus-8. If I ever got a knife in a 'supersteel' and the inside of the spyderhole wasn't polished down to 800 grit :p I would still be very happy. At least spyderco offers these steels. That being said, the spydercos I own are pretty flawless, including my gray para.
 
philwar said:
I think you are right to be annoyed, but wrong to take it up with Spyderco. The responsibility lies with the dealer first (also, you may wanna inspect the knife before buying it). He should sell you a new, 100% mint condition knife. Nothing else will do for your good money.
Perhaps if a dealer consistently fails his responsibilities should you contact Spyderco, but it would be about him, not the knife.
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These knives came from different high volume dealers. Spyderco did ship the knives out in the condition, I received them in. Nobody had ever removed them from the box, prior to me.

It is rather common to see less than perfect finish on these black clips out of Golden, in my experience. I only asked Spyderco, about the two worst cases. I also always ordered these knives from online, there was no way to look them over before buying. All in all, it was not a huge deal to buy another clip for those worst cases, but I have had other manufacturers send me a new clip, or a screw when they were not 100% out of the box, without all the "you didn't get it straight from us, so too bad" attitude.
 
swegeek said:
When I'm settling with "less than less than perfect" from Golden but get perfectly crisp machining from relatively low cost Kershaw China, Victorinox, Leatherman, Cold Steel (you name it) time and time again it's not as simple as expecting too much though? I mean, I must have owned more than a dozen of different variations of Victorinox Alox through the years and I can't remember a single one that had as poor machining as some of the ones I've had from Golden. None of them I even bothered to inspect before hand because why would I? I expect the Victorinoc Alox, a $20 dollar knife with far more demanding tolerances, to be pretty much perfect each and every single time.
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Okay, this post is a massive exaggeration.

As a person that has owned multiple knives from all levels ranging from custom, to CRK to Victorinox and Opinel, I can assure you that this post is out of line.

I have an Alox Vic Solo in my pocket right now with very visible, diagonal grinds on the edge of the tang that do not line up with the tension bar and cause the blade to go slightly to the right.

I have a pink Kershaw leek that I bought my girlfriend that has slight blade play and an off center blade when shut.

My Spyderco Endura has slight play and a slightly off center blade. My Spyderco Lava has some very slight play, as well. My Spyderco VG-10 Kiwi is nearly perfect. Centered with no play and almost perfect handle grinds. Its really very nice.

The only "perfect" knife I own, or have ever owned is my CRK Sebenza.

This is just the knives I have in front of me, right now. I could go on for ages about how imperfect the myriad of factory knives I've bought and sold over the years have been. I can only say that Spyderco is no more or less disappointing than other factory brands.

The allegations in the post I've quoted seem quite absurd, compared to my own experience.
 
I prefer the Golden CO. and Japanese made Spydercos. As for scratched up knives coming from high volume dealers. I would avoid them entirely if I experienced repeated problems.
 
I have a couple of Japanese Spydercos, a Delica and a Native 4
I have extensively handled one from Taiwan, a Gayle Bradley.
I have not handled any from China.
I have one from Golden, a sprint run Manix2 in CTS-BD30P

To be truthful, in my limited experience I cannot tell any difference in the fit and finish.
 
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