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Comp Finish Question

Discussion in 'Busse Combat Knives' started by Geoff, Feb 16, 2019.

  1. Geoff

    Geoff

    705
    Mar 21, 2001
    When I 1st started collecting Busse knives a few years ago it was during the time when they stopped offering the Comp Finish.

    I understand this was because people were sending them back because they didn’t understand the point of the comp finish and expected satin or something.

    Of all the knives I purchased from the exchange I never snagged a CF.

    I was REALLY excited when they were offered again. I got a Forsaken Gemini in CF and my Nuked Forsaken Steel Heart just arrived. I’m still deciding on the finish.

    When I originally heard about the finish my understanding was they just skip the coating process.

    Currently there is a cost premium for the CF. The CF on my 2 examples is rough (as expected) so there must be more to it than skipping the coating of the CF would be cheaper.

    Not trying to start drama just curious if this was always the case.

    Thx
     
  2. Twiztids4

    Twiztids4 Gold Member Gold Member

    921
    Jul 17, 2014
    I always thought the same thing too. Wondered why it wasn’t cheaper if they are saving time on it and saving material by not using a coating. I used to think it was just because they were in higher demand. I haven’t seen any gremlin marks in my CF but have had about a 50% chance of finding decent ones in things I stripped. Maybe they need to spend time sanding everything more even.
     
    duramax and PeteyTwoPointOne like this.
  3. jliang78

    jliang78 Gold Member Gold Member

    61
    Mar 21, 2013
    Im guessing they add the extra step of making sure there are no dimples in the steel. Do a search of stripped INFI and you'll see pictures of the dimples and other "rough" marks that you dont see in the latest blades with competition finish.
     
    PeteyTwoPointOne and Cobalt like this.
  4. Murman

    Murman KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 11, 2015
    I absolutely love it. What do you question about it?
     
  5. Twiztids4

    Twiztids4 Gold Member Gold Member

    921
    Jul 17, 2014
    The question on the table was why is there a cost premium to an uncoated non satin blade.
     
  6. Murman

    Murman KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 11, 2015
    My understanding is this. Cnc machine tools wear down with use, reducing tolerance. Therefore the first cuts with new tooling become custom shop, mid run get comp/DC/big, last cuts get coated. Therefore it's not simply skipping the coating, it's paying for superior machining.
     
  7. PeteyTwoPointOne

    PeteyTwoPointOne Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Jun 10, 2014
    IIRC, Competition Finish when it was introduced <maybe 07/08-ish> was hailed as a sort of middle ground between unfinished and full on satin.

    Like for when Busse wanted to test a blade but didn't want to test em in a rough state with a lot of drag and other issues that may affect performance. But at the same time there was no need for a museum grade finish just to have the dog snot beat out of it.

    So like Twiz, Murman & j78 mentioned, there is a certain level of finishing work applied to erase the ugliest of ugly roughed out marks. Hence, the nominal upcharge.

    The CF was shelved when some less informed buyers got on the Daryl Dixon Zomby bandwagon, grabbed em a TGLB or two expecting full on satin or high polish, but upon taking delivery of their zomby dispatching blades noticed that there were light machining marks still present. They pissed and moaned so much, clogged up shipping/returns, phonelines, W&R, the CS and just generally sucked the oxygen out of the room with their lack of knowledge of what CF was meant to be and meant for, that Jerry "retired" CF >>> VERY VERY much to the dismay of the real HOGS, true fans, users, and Busse aficianados everywhere.

    So everyone <especially ME :D> was hyped when Comp Finish made it's triumphant return.

    But there was a silver lining to the TGLB CF stormcloud...I believe the BIG <Busse Industrial Grind> was born out of that era. BIG is a great user finish, second only <IMHO> to Comp. Fin. That's why I bought a BIG Nano Fusion NOutlaw with the last offering. I'd recommend you to scoop one of those if you can or get BIG finish on the next model it's offered on. Good stuff! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
    jliang78, lex2006 and Murman like this.
  8. knifeleather

    knifeleather Sheathmaker Extraordinaire

    406
    Jul 14, 2012
    which finish is supposed to be 'smoother', the BIG or Comp finish?
    thx
     
  9. PeteyTwoPointOne

    PeteyTwoPointOne Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Jun 10, 2014
    BIG, it's just a step down from satin...Competition is for hogs who like a more "working class" finish :cool:
     
    knifeleather likes this.
  10. knifeleather

    knifeleather Sheathmaker Extraordinaire

    406
    Jul 14, 2012
    thanks!
     
  11. PeteyTwoPointOne

    PeteyTwoPointOne Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Jun 10, 2014
    knifeleather likes this.
  12. Busto

    Busto KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jul 26, 2011
    For those of you that have stripped multiple coated blades what have you found under the coating...I Know...but newbies to stripping may not understand that "Decarb" is generally the layer under the coating on top of the blade steel....That is why when a blade is stripped and not completely sanded you may encounter Flash Rust....Now on a Comp Finish/BIG Finish there is a certain amount of Belt Finishing or Bead Blasting to remove that Decarb Layer Which is probably the reason for the UP Charge for Comp Finish. The more complex the Grind the More time needed to clean up the finish...Full Flat and Convex being the least labor intensive followed by Saber then the Hollow grinds and CBT and Fullers requiring another process to get down in the Nooks and Crannys.
     
    Aias and u812 like this.
  13. inkynate

    inkynate Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 4, 2010
    My understanding is that the new Competition Finish is much, much more "finished" then the old CF, which as Busto pointed out could have still had a layer of very rust prone decarb on them, as well as pits, dimples, chatter marks, etc...

    From the Silent Knight offer descrip:

    "*Competition Finish will have light machining marks and other superficial marks in the steel. (No Gremlins or deep chatter marks)"
     
    bikerector likes this.
  14. u812

    u812 Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 15, 2002
    ^^^^ This from Busto ^^^^
    You would know there is quite a bit more finish work to the new comp finish if you saw the finish of the first comp blades offered. The comp finish on my TGLB is really amazing,combo of satin,DC and comp.
     
  15. Busto

    Busto KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jul 26, 2011
    Good Point....The First Gen Comp finish was Exactly what one might expect as a TEST knife that Jerry might take out behind the Wood Shed and test to destruction with little to no attention to Looks. I have a First Gen and the New Gen of BIG and COMP are considerably better Finishes. First Gen was an Ok Finish, but this Newer look is so much closer to Satin than the first models.
     
  16. gk4ever2

    gk4ever2 Gold Member Gold Member

    May 1, 2008
    My first gen CF BWM looked nice when new, but then the decarb started to rust. This happened on other knives too with the early CF finish.
     
  17. Busto

    Busto KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Jul 26, 2011
    It's worth noting that certain blade Grinds like the Bushwacker Mistress full flats and convex grinds were probably the better looking of those early CF however the Decarb was eventually going to show it's ability to rust overnight. I think that was one of the early signs that it would end the CF option due to returns for warranty re-work. Some buyers had no idea what they were getting just that it looked different from the Coated blades.
     
  18. Andy the Aussie

    Andy the Aussie Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Jan 29, 2010
    Yes the new CF is MUCH more refined than the old one, this is about trying to placate OUR requests for it without creating undue angst for buyers who were unfamiliar with it. The original CF was a no cost option over the basic Combat (coated) Grade blades. The last I ordered direct (TGLBs) cost no extra (damn why didn't I order 10) and had no decarb etc, just a much less refined finish.
     
  19. knifeleather

    knifeleather Sheathmaker Extraordinaire

    406
    Jul 14, 2012
    Ha! I bought one of those, always thought it was the Comp finish..no wonder I couldn't tell the difference!
     
  20. Geoff

    Geoff

    705
    Mar 21, 2001
    I do have a BIG finish NMFSH and some smaller DC models. I DO like the CF.

    Thanks for the info and history guys!
     

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