Company refusing to sell product because of flawed state law interpretation.

luethge said:
Is this another new law ? Since 01/2022 ?

Two years ago I was told by a LEO I could belt carry a 6 inch blade so long as “it’s hanging from a belt, sheathed, and not concealed in any way”. “Any length folding knife can be carried in a pocket, as long as it’s folded”.

I give up. S____ California - Los Angeles anyway. Planning to move to Oregon or Washington within 6 months.
Click to expand...
Not sure you will be better off there.
 
Legendary_Jarl said:
I just had a ridiculous experience with a company that refused to sell me a product because I live in California!

The product in question is a dagger which according to their flawed understanding is "illegal here". That is of course total BS. The only restriction is carrying daggers concealed. What is worse, the dagger is a historical replica and it isn't even sharp! Another company affiliated to them has shipped daggers to me with no problem in the past!

The whole issue to me is stupid and after I told them their policy was making them lose money and customers they simply didn't respond further. It almost seems like discrimination to me: refusing to sell a product because of the state I live in. I know my state government is stupid but damn... give me a break.
Click to expand...
Don’t blame the company. Blame the ridiculous state you live in by your own choice. I was just in CA in February and am so glad I left.
 
I disagree.

California has it's faults, lots of them, believe me I know, I've lived here for 52 years. I could rant for a few pages about the problems and insanity of California, it's laws, and it's law makers.

But that being said, I don't see this as a "California" problem, I see this as a "vendor not bothering to research the law" problem. And that could affect anyone, in any state.

The fact is, daggers and double-edged knives are not illegal in California, nor is it illegal to sell them in, or ship them to California. A quick visit to Kniferights.org's free app or the American Knife and Tool Institute's website would show that. The two most reliable online sources for current knife laws, and recent changes in knife laws.

Legendary_Jarl said it is a "company" that refused to send him the knife. Anyone in the knife-selling business SHOULD know the knife laws, or at least research them using a reliable source. Knowing the knife laws, as one who sells and ships knives, is a necessity, not an option.

Before you blame it all on California, consider that the same thing could happen to you in whatever state you live in. You want a particular knife, one that's perfectly legal in your state, maybe you want it very badly, maybe that vendor is the only one who has it, or will ever have it, but the vendor won't send it to you because they erroneously heard that it's illegal in your state, and they aren't willing to take a few minutes to research the knife laws of your state using a credible source.

I'm more than happy to call out California for it's many faults, but in this case, I don't think California is to blame. Let's hope you don't miss out on a knife you really want some day because a knife vendor can't be bothered to take a few minutes to research the knife laws of your state.
 
Last edited:
killgar said:
I disagree.

California has it's faults, lots of them, believe me I know, I've lived here for 52 years. I could rant for a few pages about the problems and insanity of California, it's laws, and it's law makers.

But that being said, I don't see this as a "California" problem, I see this as a "vendor not bothering to research the law" problem. And that could affect anyone, in any state.

The fact is, daggers and double-edged knives are not illegal in California, nor is it illegal to sell them in, or ship them to California. A quick visit to Kniferights.org. free app or the American Knife and Tool Institute's website would show that. The two most reliable online sources for current knife laws, and recent changes in knife laws.

Legendary_Jarl said it is a "company" that refused to send him the knife. Anyone in the knife-selling business SHOULD know the knife laws, or at least research them using a reliable source. Knowing the knife laws, as one who sells and ships knives, is a necessity, not an option.

Before you blame it all on California, consider that the same thing could happen to you in whatever state you live in. You want a particular knife, one that's perfectly legal in your state, maybe you want it very badly, maybe that vendor is the only one who has it, or will ever have it, but the vendor won't send it to you because they erroneously heard that it's illegal in your state, and they aren't willing to take a few minutes to research the knife laws of your state using a credible source.

I'm more than happy to call out California for it's many faults, but in this case, I don't think California is to blame. Let's hope you don't miss out on a knife you really want some day because a knife vendor can't be bothered to take a few minutes to research the knife laws of your state.
Click to expand...

AR-15s are perfectly legal to sell and own in CT, that did not slow that legal mess for what was left of Remington down in the slightest. Businesses make business decisions. If there was more profit potential than risk in their judgement they would sell in California. Apparently there is not.
 
Triton said:
AR-15s are perfectly legal to sell and own in CT, that did not slow that legal mess for what was left of Remington down in the slightest. Businesses make business decisions. If there was more profit potential than risk in their judgement they would sell in California. Apparently there is not.
Click to expand...

I don't think that AR-15's and double-edged knives are comparable. To my knowledge there are no national calls for banning or controlling double-edged knives, no politicians railing against them. You don't need an FFL, or a background check to buy, sell, send, or receive a double-edged knife in California. AR-15's on the other hand, have a lot of baggage, both legal and political.

As far as double edged knives, several companies sell them here in California. Back when there were B&M knife stores, double-edged knives were common. I bought a SOG Desert Dagger, a Cold Steel Peacekeeper, and a United boot knife at two different shopping malls. And I've received several from mainstream online vendors (the most recent was a Fox Bellum in 2019 from BladeHQ).

I've never heard of a knife company being sued by the state of California for shipping a particular knife here, much less a knife that is, and has always been, perfectly legal to sell, buy, own, and ship here.

But a vendor is free to make whatever business decisions they want, based on any reasoning they choose to use. But that doesn't mean I'm going to agree with it or support them for it.

In any event, for me it's just an interesting topic of conversation. I have no personal stake in the matter. At least not yet. No vendor has ever refused to ship me a knife I wanted, not even the most evil knives of all- switchblades!

And believe me, I feel very weird defending the state of California. Usually I'm ranting against it to friends and family 😁 .
 
Last edited:
killgar said:
I disagree.

California has it's faults, lots of them, believe me I know, I've lived here for 52 years. I could rant for a few pages about the problems and insanity of California, it's laws, and it's law makers.

But that being said, I don't see this as a "California" problem, I see this as a "vendor not bothering to research the law" problem. And that could affect anyone, in any state.

The fact is, daggers and double-edged knives are not illegal in California, nor is it illegal to sell them in, or ship them to California. A quick visit to Kniferights.org's free app or the American Knife and Tool Institute's website would show that. The two most reliable online sources for current knife laws, and recent changes in knife laws.

Legendary_Jarl said it is a "company" that refused to send him the knife. Anyone in the knife-selling business SHOULD know the knife laws, or at least research them using a reliable source. Knowing the knife laws, as one who sells and ships knives, is a necessity, not an option.

Before you blame it all on California, consider that the same thing could happen to you in whatever state you live in. You want a particular knife, one that's perfectly legal in your state, maybe you want it very badly, maybe that vendor is the only one who has it, or will ever have it, but the vendor won't send it to you because they erroneously heard that it's illegal in your state, and they aren't willing to take a few minutes to research the knife laws of your state using a credible source.

I'm more than happy to call out California for it's many faults, but in this case, I don't think California is to blame. Let's hope you don't miss out on a knife you really want some day because a knife vendor can't be bothered to take a few minutes to research the knife laws of your state.
Click to expand...
I disagree. I have also lived in California. California has insane, unconstitutional rules about everything except for real crime.

It is becoming common and is quite reasonable for companies to decide it is wiser to not do business in California than to risk breaking the law. Or be forced to put the bullshit cancer warning labels on everything.

Did you know that pants cause cancer in California?
 
killgar said:
I don't think that AR-15's and double-edged knives are comparable. To my knowledge there are no national calls for banning or controlling double-edged knives, no politicians railing against them. You don't need an FFL, or a background check to buy, sell, send, or receive a double-edged knife in California. AR-15's on the other hand, have a lot of baggage, both legal and political.

As far as double edged knives, several companies sell them here in California. Back when there were B&M knife stores, double-edged knives were common. I bought a SOG Desert Dagger, a Cold Steel Peacekeeper, and a United boot knife at two different shopping malls. And I've received several from mainstream online vendors (the most recent was a Fox Bellum in 2019 from BladeHQ).

I've never heard of a knife company being sued by the state of California for shipping a particular knife here, much less a knife that is, and has always been, perfectly legal to sell, buy, own, and ship here.

But a vendor is free to make whatever business decisions they want, based on any reasoning they choose to use. But that doesn't mean I'm going to agree with it or support them for it.

In any event, for me it's just an interesting topic of conversation. I have no personal stake in the matter. At least not yet. No vendor has ever refused to ship me a knife I wanted, not even the most evil knives of all- switchblades!

And believe me, I feel very weird defending the state of California. Usually I'm ranting against it to friends and family 😁 .
Click to expand...
Following the European model, as California seems to be, the double edge knives will be banned after the firearms and before scissors.
 
killgar said:
I don't think that AR-15's and double-edged knives are comparable. To my knowledge there are no national calls for banning or controlling double-edged knives, no politicians railing against them. You don't need an FFL, or a background check to buy, sell, send, or receive a double-edged knife in California. AR-15's on the other hand, have a lot of baggage, both legal and political.

As far as double edged knives, several companies sell them here in California. Back when there were B&M knife stores, double-edged knives were common. I bought a SOG Desert Dagger, a Cold Steel Peacekeeper, and a United boot knife at two different shopping malls. And I've received several from mainstream online vendors (the most recent was a Fox Bellum in 2019 from BladeHQ).

I've never heard of a knife company being sued by the state of California for shipping a particular knife here, much less a knife that is, and has always been, perfectly legal to sell, buy, own, and ship here.

But a vendor is free to make whatever business decisions they want, based on any reasoning they choose to use. But that doesn't mean I'm going to agree with it or support them for it.

In any event, for me it's just an interesting topic of conversation. I have no personal stake in the matter. At least not yet. No vendor has ever refused to ship me a knife I wanted, not even the most evil knives of all- switchblades!

And believe me, I feel very weird defending the state of California. Usually I'm ranting against it to friends and family 😁 .
Click to expand...
I certainly don't ever want to put someone in the position of having to defend California!😃
 
DMG said:
I disagree. I have also lived in California. California has insane, unconstitutional rules about everything except for real crime.

It is becoming common and is quite reasonable for companies to decide it is wiser to not do business in California than to risk breaking the law. Or be forced to put the bullshit cancer warning labels on everything.

Did you know that pants cause cancer in California?
Click to expand...
Everything causes cancer in California, and climate change. 😁

Heck, forget double-edged knives, good luck buying a decent gas can in California, or getting someone out of state to ship one here (gas cans cause climate change :rolleyes:). I recently went through that. One source of my "rant" material.
 
DMG said:
Following the European model, as California seems to be, the double edge knives will be banned after the firearms and before scissors.
Click to expand...
Wrong! I'm in Europe and I can carry what I want (size doesn't matter) ;)
 
killgar said:
Everything causes cancer in California, and climate change. 😁

Heck, forget double-edged knives, good luck buying a decent gas can in California, or getting someone out of state to ship one here (gas cans cause climate change :rolleyes:). I recently went through that. One source of my "rant" material.
Click to expand...
We can’t get a good gas can anywhere because of stupid people and lawyers. And my F150 shuts off at stoplights.


But you can buy a gas can and then buy the old style nozzle on Amazon. Don’t tell Big Brother.
 
There is no absolute common legislation in Europe on knives. The UK restrictions do not apply to EU countries and other European countries. Each country has its own laws on the issue.
 
OP, this may be a factor. Or not


California Dirk or Dagger "Morality"

California Dirk or Dagger “Morality" In keeping with my experience that California criminal laws always get more convoluted instead of simpler, the California Second District Court of Appeal quietly slipped a stunning case into the appellate record during the pandemic: People v. Hester (2020)...
www.bladeforums.com www.bladeforums.com
 
Triton said:
I'm hating it for you, but I do see the company's perspective also. They aren't quite sure what your state's laws are, but they do know that you have rabidly hoplophobic DAs and judges who may well sue and find against them whether what they are selling is legal or not.
Click to expand...
On the other side of the spectrum, I ordered waterfowl ammo from one of the big online vendors a few years ago (out of state). Since CT requires you to send a copy of your driver's license AND pistol permit, I asked them by phone how they wanted me to send them the information. The customer service rep's response?

"I don't care about your state's crappy unconstitutional laws."

So they just shipped it after I paid. 🤣

Triton said:
AR-15s are perfectly legal to sell and own in CT, that did not slow that legal mess for what was left of Remington down in the slightest.
Click to expand...
Only pre-bans (pre 1994) can be bought and sold in CT. You can't buy newer AR-15's currently. But if you owned one before April 2013, you're grandfathered in.
 
DMG said:
We can’t get a good gas can anywhere because of stupid people and lawyers. And my F150 shuts off at stoplights.


But you can buy a gas can and then buy the old style nozzle on Amazon. Don’t tell Big Brother.
Click to expand...
You can't buy a gas can in California? What am I missing?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top