Company refusing to sell product because of flawed state law interpretation.

Vlade said:
You can't buy a gas can in California? What am I missing?
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You can buy gas cans in California, but there are strict environmental protection regulations regarding the certification (design) of the cans (and spouts) that are legal to sell in California. The problem with the restrictions is that it seriously limits the types of gas containers that are available in this state, and the types of "safety spouts" that meet California certification SUCK, and are a pain in the butt to use. They are also highly prone to breakage and failure due to their complicated design and function.

It's not a "law", it's an "executive order". And it only applies to the importation of non-certified cans/spouts into California, and the sale of them within California.

Here's the most relevant part of the "regulation"-

Article 6. 2467

"...any person who sells, supplies, offers for sale, advertises or manufactures in California portable fuel container systems or other components for use in California.."

In other words, any person or company that does any of those things with gas cans that don't meet California certification are in violation of the regulation. However, it is not a violation to buy, own, or use an uncertified gas can in the state of California.

As far as what it takes for a gas container/spout to be certified, there are several requirements, both for the container, and the spout. I'm not going to list them all here though.

Now here's a funny (ridiculous) thing about this "regulation"- Although uncertified gas cans cannot be sold in California, or manufactured for sale in California, they can be manufactured in California for sale outside of California. So apparently, the governor of California only cares about the threat to the environment that uncertified gas cans pose within California's borders. For those of you in the other 49 states, you can buy all the California-made CLIMATE KILLER gas cans you want.

Here is a link to the final regulation order, from the California Air Resource Board, and the official California government website- https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/2021-02/pfcreg2016.pdf

Now for my gas can story (long story short)-

I had an old red plastic gas container that I really liked, it was perfect for strapping to the cargo rack of my motorcycle for long trips (2.5 gallons, low-profile, an elongated rectangle, wide bottom), but the plastic had started to blister. So I went searching online for a replacement.

I decided I wanted a heavy-duty STEEL gas can, no more blistering. And I found the PERFECT can, like it was made just for me- a 2.6 gallon Wavian NATO-style heavy steel can, and they make them in BLACK. Wavian is top-of-the-line when it comes to gas cans.

However, they don't meet California certification.

But I was eventually able to get one anyway, with no safety spout. And it's AWESOME! šŸ˜.

And that's probably more than you ever wanted to know about gas cans in California ;).
 
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Raku said:
Poland, currently all knives allowed, exceptions are those pretending to be other things.
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I've noticed that our friends in Eastern Europe seem to have a firmer grasp on pragmatic reality than some of us in other places. I think it has to do with being the bulwark against invaders from the east for a few thousand years. They mostly don't seem to be to fond of Russians (or at least the Russian government) either I think we are beginning to see why.
 
tokerblue said:
On the other side of the spectrum, I ordered waterfowl ammo from one of the big online vendors a few years ago (out of state). Since CT requires you to send a copy of your driver's license AND pistol permit, I asked them by phone how they wanted me to send them the information. The customer service rep's response?

"I don't care about your state's crappy unconstitutional laws."

So they just shipped it after I paid. šŸ¤£


Only pre-bans (pre 1994) can be bought and sold in CT. You can't buy newer AR-15's currently. But if you owned one before April 2013, you're grandfathered in.
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That is completely awesome!šŸ˜€
 
luethge said:
View attachment 1812563

Curtiss F3 Large šŸ‘. Clip fully exposed. Tape residue on the finish. The tool is for opening and breaking down boxes šŸ˜‚

Iā€™ve stopped carrying fixed blades on my person as our leaders blurred the laws yet again.

Iā€™m definitely not trying to make trouble for myself, or added red tape for any LEOā€™s.

Our laws are a little confusing since the first of the year.
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Better put a ā€œCaution Sharp Object ā€œ warning label on the blade. šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚
 
Triton said:
Ironically they cause far more spilled gas than the old fashioned kind. You can modify them to work properly though. California... Its a silly place.
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Are you talking about the cans with the spout that has a valve in it and has to be depressed? If that's the gas can you speaking about ? I believe you're right they suck. I think they're making most of them with that stupid nozzle. It's not a law it's just what they got.
 
Vlade said:
Are you talking about the cans with the spout that has a valve in it and has to be depressed? If that's the gas can you speaking about ? I believe you're right they suck. I think they're making most of them with that stupid nozzle. It's not a law it's just what they got.
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Yep you nailed it
 
Legendary_Jarl said:
I don't feel like supporting that company any further. They don't want to ship to me they can shove the dagger up their asses.
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Unlikely theyā€™ll do that, more likely theyā€™ll continue to sell product to customers in other places.

Interstate commerce is, and has been for some time, changing for the weirder in the legal sense. In some cases, public officials are twisting laws to reward their friends and punish their enemies (or just those they like and dislike).

Presumably, the company wants to be in the knife business, not the law business. You only live in one state, but they have to decide whether to do business in all 50, plus DC, plus hundreds of foreign countries. Itā€™s unreasonable to expect them to keep current on all those laws (and case law) just so they can sell you a dagger at a small profit. The cost/benefit ratio just doesnā€™t pencil out for them. What they do instead is, when they hear a horror story from CA, or another place, it goes onto their list of ā€œplaces too risky to sell toā€. That may or may not turn out to be a feasible long term strategy, but itā€™s what they do right now to limit their risk.

I can relate to your frustration though, my state has some bullshiite environmental rules that result in my not being able to buy the woodstove I want. Iā€™m frustrated too, but at the state for being stupid, not at the business for being cautious.

Parker
 
So I live in Pennsylvania and placed an order to pick up at Loweā€™s about 10 miles away. I ordered the wife a 2 wheel wheelbarrow and some dewalt stuff. The wheelbarrow came with a California prop 65 warning me that if I ate it, it might give me cancer.
 
catspa said:
Well cā€™mon man, tell us the good part. Did you eat it anyway? Did you get ā€œCalifornia cancerā€? Did you move there for treatment? Did you sue Lowes for selling it to you?

Parker
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I started to eat it but my wife got mad so no California cancer for me.
 
But we have movie stars and sunshine ( that causes cancer ). Celebrity endorsement.
 
Safety dagger. As a kid, we used to make those out of straight sticks. Donā€™t recall affixing any cancer labels, but my guess is that the statute of limitations has expired.

Parker
 
luethge said:
I give up. S____ California - Los Angeles anyway. Planning to move to Oregon or Washington within 6 months.
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FYI, laws in WA are pretty f'd up.
Seattle One Example: Illegal to carry ANY Fixed Blade or Any Knife over 3.5" blade.

Seattle MCS Example (MCS = Municipal Code Seattle):
MCS 12A.14.080 - Unlawful use of weapons
It is unlawful for a person to:
A. Knowingly sell, manufacture, purchase, possess or carry any blackjack, sand-club, metal knuckles, switchblade knife, chako stick, slungshot, or throwing star; or
B. Knowingly carry concealed or unconcealed on such person any dangerous knife, or carry concealed on such person any deadly weapon other than a firearm; or
MCS 12A.14.010 - Definitions
"Dangerous knife" means any fixed-blade knife and any other knife having a blade more than 3 1/2 inches in length.

What's even worse is how the knife laws change across state by municipality, as simply crossing an unmarked divisional line into a different municipality the laws related to knives can, and many times do change.
As there is NO State Wide Preemption, a person must due diligence to know what is legal/illegal and interpret the various laws themselves based on specific location.

Additionally, laws can vary by location within an establishment ...
Example: A restaurant that serves alcohol may have various sections that allow minors and sections that do not allow minors. The laws related to knife blade length carry may be different in the no minors section of the restaurant. Interestingly the areas that do not allow minors have MORE restrictive knife laws (shorter blade, and/or differing requirements). So you could be sitting down (with legal pocket knife) at your table ordering food and alcoholic beverages legally, then get up and walk to the bar to add a drink to your order but now your legal over there pocket knife is now an illegal over here pocket knife. Like I stated above "pretty f'd up".
 
Itā€™s true what Spey says, but WA also has a lot of non-urban places where your knife isnā€™t an issue unless you make it one by doing something stupid.

Parker
 
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