Competition Chopper M4, 3V, or Z-Wear

I'm rambling but I know a lot of the competitors on KOD from Bladesports. Be sure to watch this week. My friend Dwayne Unger is using his comp knife, M4 steel. First knife he ever made under my instruction in my shop. He has really moved up in the ranks and will be competing in the world championship at Blade this year. Long story but he actually used my 4V comp knife in Dallas to place 5th.
Scott
 
S skillgannon , M4 works surprisingly well in a large heavy blade. I've run it to 64 rc. with no issues. If you get the right geometry, it's tough and holds up well under extreme use. I do flat/convex combo grinds with a zero convex edge.
Scott
 
Gossman Knives said:
S skillgannon , M4 works surprisingly well in a large heavy blade. I've run it to 64 rc. with no issues. If you get the right geometry, it's tough and holds up well under extreme use. I do flat/convex combo grinds with a zero convex edge.
Scott
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I have some .15?ish stock that I have had for a long time but haven't figured out what I wanted to do with it. I should get a few blades. I'm a newer maker and have been focusing on kitchen knives. I'm getting about ready to get on it though. I'm kinda bumbed that I got that thickness because I'm still trying to figure out what to do with it. I want some thin stock for a kitchen knife and really want some 5/16" for a big camp knife and a competition chopper . If I get a 36" piece depending on my handle type I can have 14" to 15" i
 
It should work well for kitchen knives given the excellent wear resistance and edge holding. It is not very corrosion or stain resistant so a patina is inevitable.
Scott
 
I think Dan Keffeler has switched over to Vanadis 4 extra which is pretty much 4v from my understanding. Nate the machinist is using it on his new comp chopper too. Must be something to it.
 
Yeah, I think it would be hard to go wrong with 4V.

I tested V4E (Vanadius 4 Extra) and 4V (pretty much the same chemistry, different manufacturers) and found the V4E was very slightly a better performer. You would only be able to see the difference in very careful side by side testing and I don't think anyone would be disappointed in CPM 4V, it has extremely good edge stability that will hold up in thin sections for competitive use very well.

V4E is a pain to acquire and it's expensive. I think most folks would be served just fine with 4V, it's sooo close.

As much as I like 3V, you will find that it tends to show distortion from wonky hits when used in a thin section. That same ductility that makes it so durable will get points deducted in a competition unless you run it thicker than you'd want to in a competition.

I think that 4V will outperform M4 in this application.

I don't really know much about Z-Wear.
 
Didn't Dan use some PD1 as well?

This kind of knife really interest me and it's something I want to get into but I haven't got to go to any events yet.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Yeah, I think it would be hard to go wrong with 4V.

I tested V4E (Vanadius 4 Extra) and 4V (pretty much the same chemistry, different manufacturers) and found the V4E was very slightly a better performer. You would only be able to see the difference in very careful side by side testing and I don't think anyone would be disappointed in CPM 4V, it has extremely good edge stability that will hold up in thin sections for competitive use very well.

V4E is a pain to acquire and it's expensive. I think most folks would be served just fine with 4V, it's sooo close.

As much as I like 3V, you will find that it tends to show distortion from wonky hits when used in a thin section. That same ductility that makes it so durable will get points deducted in a competition unless you run it thicker than you'd want to in a competition.

I think that 4V will outperform M4 in this application.

I don't really know much about Z-Wear.
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I’ve been using a lot of z-wear/cru-wear and really like it. The edge stability is pretty amazing, and it’s much tougher than I thought is would be. I’m going to get some 4V next time I order steel to try.
 
I've never competed but I've done a lot of testing and I've been using a lot of 4V since it first came out. You can run it hard and grind it thin with no worries. It makes great choppers as well as hunter/skinners that will see hard use. One of the larger companies has picked up one of my designs and it will be in 4V. Its great stuff. Definitely my first choice if I was planning on a Comp. knife.
I've wanted to try V4E but haven't done so because of the reasons Nathan mentioned. Glad to hear that there is actually very little difference from someone who knows what they're talking about.
 
Darrin Sanders said:
I've never competed but I've done a lot of testing and I've been using a lot of 4V since it first came out. You can run it hard and grind it thin with no worries. It makes great choppers as well as hunter/skinners that will see hard use. One of the larger companies has picked up one of my designs and it will be in 4V. Its great stuff. Definitely my first choice if I was planning on a Comp. knife.
I've wanted to try V4E but haven't done so because of the reasons Nathan mentioned. Glad to hear that there is actually very little difference from someone who knows what they're talking about.
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Do you know where to find .025 or better stock?
 
That stuff is pretty pricy. Just so I have a idea how much I'm into. What's the belt use like on those. I'm guessing after heat treatment they are over $300 per knife to build.
 
I've only made one knife from 4V and it was a small hunter. It was very similar in belt use before hardening to any of the super steels. After hardening it was miserable compared to Elmax or 3V. Not impossible just a lot of work.
 
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