Competition Chopper M4, 3V, or Z-Wear

skillgannon said:
That stuff is pretty pricy. Just so I have a idea how much I'm into. What's the belt use like on those. I'm guessing after heat treatment they are over $300 per knife to build.
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I use three times as many belts with z-wear compared to simple carbon steels. Factor that into your pricing. Not all belts perform as expected on these steels. I find the 60 grit VSM belts and 120 grit blaze work well for me. Any non ceramic belt will dull in a couple passes. I’m going to try sic belts when I order again.
 
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valknut said:
Someone should get a few of these off to Larrin Larrin gor his testing so we can get numbers behind the theories. Id be nice to see how cruwear/zwear stack up against 3v and 4v,
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I’ve got some 3v samples that I have to heat treat yet. They will go to him in this current batch. I’ll send some 4V after my next steel order. I haven’t had a lot of shop time this spring. Work has been crazy, and I’ve had a couple minor injuries (tweaked old back and knee injuries.) I’ve got the M2 high temper to heat treat yet as well.
 
Yes
rodriguez7 said:
Nice!! Did you do the heat treat? I have 2 4v knives, that I’ll be heat treating next week! I have one I made, heat treated by peters. I’m really liking this steel!
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Yes, I did the heat treat. 1500, ramp to 1950, soak 30 minutes, plate quench, 2 hour temper at 1000 x 2
 
Have you guys tried the low temper with 4v? Nate the machinist says that the higher temper leaves a brittle edge! If I could find the time, I would like to test both methods, and share them here. I’m also thinking of trying a prequench, like Devin recommends for aeb-l, see if that adds any toughness. From what I understand, cryo is definitely mandatory with this steel.
 
I’ve also also had an oil quench recommended! I haven’t heard to much on that!
 
Kevin McGovern said:
I did not cryo, as it wasn't recommended in the crucible sheet, and I hit the RC I wanted without it. I think a little retained austinite in a blade like this could be beneficial.
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The high temper does a pretty good job of converting the retained austenite. The advantage of LN/low temper is the prevention of the precipitation of the secondary carbides, which decrease free chromium (decreases corrosion resistance) and results in a slightly more brittle structure. With my z-wear test blades, I haven’t been able to damage the edge of either recipe but under extreme use, the difference might show.
 
Willie71 said:
The high temper does a pretty good job of converting the retained austenite. The advantage of LN/low temper is the prevention of the precipitation of the secondary carbides, which decrease free chromium (decreases corrosion resistance) and results in a slightly more brittle structure. With my z-wear test blades, I haven’t been able to damage the edge of either recipe but under extreme use, the difference might show.
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So your saying, the low temper will have just a little less toughness? But probably better edge stability. Just curious, what’s the benefit of cryo, with the high temper, if your converting all the retained austenite with the high temper, and losing out on eta carbides? Possibly defeating the whole purpose?
What I’m trying to figure out, is what could be the best heat treat for my purpose. I’m so limited on time, working full time, plus family things. I don’t have enough time to test all these methods myself.
 
You really have to try different methods and find out what works the best for you. If you ask 10 knifemakers the same question, you'll most likely get 10 different answers. Test, test, test and test again. Take the info you get and work it into what you are doing.
Scott
 
rodriguez7 said:
So your saying, the low temper will have just a little less toughness? But probably better edge stability. Just curious, what’s the benefit of cryo, with the high temper, if your converting all the retained austenite with the high temper, and losing out on eta carbides? Possibly defeating the whole purpose?
What I’m trying to figure out, is what could be the best heat treat for my purpose. I’m so limited on time, working full time, plus family things. I don’t have enough time to test all these methods myself.
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I would start with the data sheet. If you want to tweak the process for specific attributes, then have at it. I will say that I have been abusing this thing and the edge retention is impressive. It's a pain to sharpen though.
 
rodriguez7 said:
So your saying, the low temper will have just a little less toughness? But probably better edge stability. Just curious, what’s the benefit of cryo, with the high temper, if your converting all the retained austenite with the high temper, and losing out on eta carbides? Possibly defeating the whole purpose?
What I’m trying to figure out, is what could be the best heat treat for my purpose. I’m so limited on time, working full time, plus family things. I don’t have enough time to test all these methods myself.
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Not worded quite right. High temper causes the precipitation, and slight decrease in toughness and corrosion resistance. Cryo/low temper prevents secondary carbide formation, which is slightly tougher and more corrosion resistant.
 
Kevin McGovern said:
I would start with the data sheet. If you want to tweak the process for specific attributes, then have at it. I will say that I have been abusing this thing and the edge retention is impressive. It's a pain to sharpen though.
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Diamond stones my friend! Diamond stones!
 
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