Cool Knives in movie Avatar

The oxymoron for the day is: Capitalism and free market economics have brought the movie industry in America in a class by itself. Now, a film maker using that creation decides to destroy the very conduit that gave him his success. Capatilism is not evil, conservation and capitalism can co-exist, and it needs to. We do need to better at managing that, but we do not need more of a left shift, it will not preserve our natural resources, and may actually exploit them even more, for the "global good." Dangerous games the movie industry plays......
 
Gator97 said:
That was my biggest problem with the movie. Basically it says human kind haven't created anything better than blue jeans and light beer. Which is pretty hateful and nihilistic statement.
I agree with Phil, it's one of the most mankind hate movies ever...
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You do realize that the Na'vi are just a representation of another kind of human viewpoint, right? So while their physical appearance is 10% different than a regular human (I mean, really now--they don't really look THAT alien, just big, bugeyed and blue with tails) what they represent as a symbol IS human.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
You do realize that the Na'vi are just a representation of another kind of human viewpoint, right?
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Well, that doesn't really affect the statement about the best we can offer to those "another kind" is blue jean and beer.
It doesn't matter who they are...
At that rate, that "other viewpoint" is preaching what? Stick to the ground, never look up and live in the caves?
 
Ben Franklin wrote about this same dilemma. The Noble Savages. He went out on a limb trying to explain to his generation how organized and adapted the natives actually were, and that they regarded our skills and sciences worthless because they got by without it and had values that encouraged self-sufficiency. Europeans came from a society worshiping their own innovations and technology because they pioneered them. Other cultures may admire this and borrow the innovations, but they just don't have the same passion the primary group does. The Na'vi turned down the offers, because what all could the corporation give them when they were happy as-is? Advanced medicine may go against their religion, notice they don't even accept fire because of their plant-based culture. Roads? They're masters of their terrain, if the average hunter is airborne why do they need paths? They were primitive, didn't seek innovations, and were happy. Many societies existed like this throughout history, and each time they got phased out by the guys with the biggest ideas and the best weapons.

Does it make me feel guilty? I didn't do it. Is it a sad fact to look back on historically? Definitely. What can we do to make up for it? It's just too late and too much, except for a scattered reservation or two the old America is simply gone unless you hole yourself up in a wildlife preserve. For a generation that craves special effects and out-there ideas...This age-old story is simple enough to make an impression. It's not anti-mankind, it's not anti-capitalism, it's against the idea of forcing change because you're not used to what's around you. The portrayal of moral human beings somewhat balances out the stereotypes, but not that much. I'd rather have seen a few soldiers step out from a mission that was eliminating a threat that just wanted to keep to itself. It'd be more realistic.
 
No, you're right; by that definition, it's anti-technology. It condemns innovation as evil and would condemn all society to a subsitence level, hunting-and-gathering philosophy that is artificially and falsely upheld as noble and harmonious. The closet analog to the Na'vi, our Native Americans, weren't the peaceful, all-knowing, "noble savages" we insultingly portray them to be, either.
 
AlexSchira said:
The Na'vi turned down the offers, because what all could the corporation give them when they were happy as-is? Advanced medicine may go against their religion, notice they don't even accept fire because of their plant-based culture. Roads? They're masters of their terrain, if the average hunter is airborne why do they need paths? They were primitive, didn't seek innovations, and were happy. Many societies existed like this throughout history, and each time they got phased out by the guys with the biggest ideas and the best weapons.
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That refusal is partly based on the ignorance. And those civilizations can be wiped out not just by guys with bigger guns, but something as simple as a large rock falling from the sky, smallpox, or few other things.
Civilization that sticks to the basic nature and instincts and refuses science and evolution is doomed for the extinction.
Technology today exists and can monitor/divert asteroids headed towards earth, as long as the governments manage to put the effort together :)
Na'vi, and the rest of the civilizations in the same case are really going the way of dinosaurs.
There are more complicated scenarios such as the sun getting hotter, which will happen a lot sooner compared to its lifespan, in which case space travel capable civilization will survive and the other one will not and so on.

So, in the end, those "let's stick to mother nature and ban all the technology" proponents don't have anything different, or better than - "let's all die here".
 
I haven't seen it. I may years down the road. I don't want to pollute my brain.
 
Charlie Mike said:
I haven't seen it. I may years down the road. I don't want to pollute my brain.
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You should.............drink the coolaid! Join us! Can you not see this movie has ignited a fuse that will be the catalyst for a revolution the world over?

Comrades, our messiah James Cameron, has spoken unto too us. We must ask the great Eywa for forgiveness.

But first Charlie Mike, you must ask for forgiveness your ancestors played in the destruction and enslavement of the Na Vi.


And when your ready to watch the movie. I want you to play this song on your ipod or whatever as you watch the battle sequences.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWrlbRdJsSE (not sure why this youtube vid won't show up in post)

Get to it:D
 
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Hm can't figure out how to post a youtube link were it plays in post.

What the heck? What happened to the pick in my last post:confused:
 
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Gator97 said:
Also, given their built in "internet" capability it is very strange the civilization would be at that stage of development. Humans managed to do a lot better since the invention of much more primitive printed word, and what global connectivity can do is quite clear today...
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I think you're forgetting that their built in "internet" was with ALL living things, not just eachother. Technology comes about with a lot of raping of nature. So if they're that in tune with nature and healing, they really have no reason to build highways (they fly on those bird things), build skyscrapers (huge natural trees they live in), telephones/internet (duh), etc....
 
Sharp Phil said:
The real problem of this visually stunning movie is the message it sends. By the climax of the film, you're supposed to be on the edge of your seat pumping your fist in the air, shouting, "Yeah! Get those lousy capitalist, despoiling humans! Drive those nasty humans back to their dying planet! Because..." And then you stop and think. "Uh... wait. Aren't we the humans?"

The message of the film is that humanity is intrinsically evil and that the military is comprised of heartless, bloodthirsty baby killers. The movie's protagonist first betrays and turns his weapons on his own fellow Marines -- and then ultimately gives up (or so we're made to hope) his own humanity in order to complete his transformation from human to Na'vi. In his own narration, Jake tells the viewer that the hated humans are being "sent back to their dying world" -- where, presumably, their search for Unobtanium thwarted, they will join the choking, suffering throngs of their fellow despoiling humans until they all die a slow and miserable death.

The movie is visually impressive, but philosophically, it's the most hateful thing anybody in Hollywood has ever managed to create. It casts as the villains of the film the entire human race, and asks its human viewers to cheer along.
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Personally, I don't think you've watched near enough movies if you think this is the most hateful thing they've come up with. :P It's also not a new theme for movies AT ALL. There have been a few popular, oscar winning movies with pretty much the same exact story

I can see where you're coming from, but really, I do not think it's that big of a deal at all. We're not cheering AGAINST humans, we're cheering against a certain evil action of humans. That's kinda like the ol' Republican slandering people who are against the war in Iraq, and calling them unamerican, terrorist lovers. Just because I'm American, doesn't mean I'm going to support every hair brained notion these politicians come up with, and it doesn't make me any less American when I voice my concern over it. (for the record, I've been a registered Republican since I could vote, and have voted more or less Republican ever since. With a touch of Libertarian thrown in :D )
 
Sharp Phil said:
The message of the film is that humanity is intrinsically evil and that the military is comprised of heartless, bloodthirsty baby killers.
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Well, looking back at the known history of the world, I'd say that humanity has done it's best to prove that it is inherently evil, and has over and over created military institutions comprised of heartless, bloodthirsty baby killers, as if to quash any doubt. Human beings waste no time finding excuses to kill, destroy, enslave, rape, steal from other human beings. If this is indeed the message of the film, I'd say it's pretty close to truth.

It's ridiculous that conservatives are tied up in knots over this movie. It's just a sci fi adventure. And half cartoon, to boot. And it's hardly the first sci fi story to have some perceived evil liberal commie theme. Humanity-as-destructive-force, often self-destructive force, is as old as the science fiction genre itself. If you have an issue with it, take it up with H.G. Wells, Jules Verne, etc.
 
LX_Emergency said:
I just want to see it for the Special Effects
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I think you'll be highly impressed! What was cool was that a few of the movie previews shown before the movie itself were also in 3D.

I'm just wondering if the DVD and Blu-Ray releases will be in 3D too.
 
Our family saw it on New Year's Day (bad decision - 1000's of other movie goers!). The 3-D was great, and the visuals were awesome. Unfortunately, the film's message had all the depth and moral fortitude of a shallow mud puddle.

My ten-year-old in particular was influenced by it. The next day we were watching TV and an ad for "Swamp Loggers" came on and her immediate reaction was, "they shouldn't cut down trees, that's bad!" I had to sit down with her and put things in perspective (e.g., the house you're comfortably living in was made with trees). Anyway, a word of warning to parents. Make sure you put it in perspective for your kids, lest they swallow the Hollywood BS, hook, line, and sinker.

- Mark
 
I thought that the greedy human behaviour in the movie was not atypical - there are plenty of examples in history, even recent history, next to Pocahontas! If we can one day colonize and mine distant planets, I'm not sure if we as a race would have respect for lesser-evolved local cultures.
Anyway, the movie of course does this with the depth and complexity of a basic comic book. Even so, it was still a wonderful spectacle.
 
I also brief my kids, when I see a spin on a concept at a movie, I point it out to them. Kids want a neat package, not shades of grey for concepts or ideas. They are fast to form conclusions, so are usually easily persuaded. When teens turn to twenties, and then thirties, if they pay attention, they can see what is really going on and make better conclusions of the evidence put before them. Hollywood is left of center, we all know.

Mark J said:
Our family saw it on New Year's Day (bad decision - 1000's of other movie goers!). The 3-D was great, and the visuals were awesome. Unfortunately, the film's message had all the depth and moral fortitude of a shallow mud puddle.

My ten-year-old in particular was influenced by it. The next day we were watching TV and an ad for "Swamp Loggers" came on and her immediate reaction was, "they shouldn't cut down trees, that's bad!" I had to sit down with her and put things in perspective (e.g., the house you're comfortably living in was made with trees). Anyway, a word of warning to parents. Make sure you put it in perspective for your kids, lest they swallow the Hollywood BS, hook, line, and sinker.

- Mark
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