Copied or influenced?

U

unky_gumbi

Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
7,951
So i have a piece of pattern welded steel coming and I have been going through what I would like to make with it. Because of the size I am going to be making a smaller knife, but then tonight I thought maybe a folder because I might be able to get a couple out of the piece instead of just on fixed blade.
So I sat down in front of the computer and started with a blade shape then moved to the handle. Once I had those two things roughed out I zoomed in and started tweaking the pivot area of the blade and handle. While zoomed in I was consistently moving back in forth across the knife to keep things flowing to my eye but never zoomed back out till I was finished. When I did the first thing that popped into my head was that it looked a lot like a sebenza. While doing the design I had frame or liner lock in mind but settled on liner because I thought it would be cheaper and easier for me to build. My build was going to be the pattern welded steel I have coming, ti liners, G10 ,micarta, or CF scales and a flat grind. Would this knife

folder.jpg

look too much like a sebenza with my build plan to call it influenced? Or is it a blatant subconscious copy?
I am kind of torn here and just looking for some advice. I want to make it but at the same time I don't want to just copy someones work. Am am not planning to sell them because I would only be making one or two of them and I don't think I have the skill to make something I could sell and stand behind 100% yet.
I am sure that many of the other makers here have come up against the same dilemma.
 
Go ahead and make your knife there are lots of different folders that have that shape.
Have fun making it i'm sure it will turn out great.

Bob
 
I would make it and not worry about it. Unless you go with some outlandish design, any knife you make will look similar to some other one.

On a different note, you need to think about where you are going to put the lock on the liner and the detente ball. Once the detente ball rolls onto the blade (while closing the knife), it should not roll off again. I believe with your design it will. The blade below the pivot pin probably needs to be rounded rather than straight across. I recommend that you make a paper cutout of the knife and pencil in the lock and detente ball locations. Then using a straight pin for the pivot, open and close the blade, watching to see if the detente ball gets exposed once it has gone onto the blade.
 
There's not a whole lot of new knife designs coming down the line. It's pretty much all been done before. As far as I know, no one holds patents or copyrights to a knife's shape. I'd say go for it and not worry at all.:thumbup:
 
I agree with Ron.
Looking at the distances from the pivot to the lock surface and the bottom of the blade, that would lock up at 90° to the handle.
Extend the bottom of the blade to at least the same distance as the lock face.
Also, move the stop pin in a bit, as it is right at the top of the handle, and maybe a little toward the back of the handle.
I like the blade shape, and no it doesn't look like a copy of anything specific...
 
Thanks for the input gentlemen, this would be my first foray into folders so there are lots of little details I have to work out. This is just a rough draft to get the basic shape down and because its in digital form its easy enough to tweak that important pivot area. I can also rotate the blade around the pivot in real time to see any flaws in the design before a saw or grinder ever touches steel.
As it sits right now the bottom of the tang where the lock would sit does interfere with the stop pin, good eyes for catching that, but I did already know it, just that I stopped working on it till I decided if I would go ahead with it or not.
I am going to do some more reading and tweaking today or tonight and see if I can wrap my head around this detente ball issue, that is something I had never thought of :o
 
Looks good bud! Good luck with the folder, I've always wanted to try one but I lack the skill. :o
 
Dan Seaver said:
Looks good bud! Good luck with the folder, I've always wanted to try one but I lack the skill. :o
Click to expand...
I don't know if I have the skill or not but I will find out. I like to push and test myself.
this is what that piece of steel I have coming from you may find its way into, its a toss up between the folder and a nice bird and trout knife. I will know for sure once I get the steel in my hands and lay the two designs over it. I print things out on clear plastic so I can see the steel underneath.
 
I believe that the strongest liner-lock design would be a perfect isosceles triangle with the pivot pin at the tip, the stop pin on the right tip and the lock on the left tip. Since it will be difficult or impossible to accomplish that, I try to get as close as I can to it. I grind the lock so that it meets the blade on the lowest side of the lock, rather than the whole face or inside. My two cents worth :)



Ron Bendele

http://HogWildCustomKnives.com

Ron at HogWildCustomKnives dot com

2010 Blade Show table 20-A
 
rbendele said:
I believe that the strongest liner-lock design would be a perfect isosceles triangle with the pivot pin at the tip, the stop pin on the right tip and the lock on the left tip. Since it will be difficult or impossible to accomplish that, I try to get as close as I can to it. I grind the lock so that it meets the blade on the lowest side of the lock, rather than the whole face or inside. My two cents worth :)



Ron Bendele

http://HogWildCustomKnives.com

Ron at HogWildCustomKnives dot com

2010 Blade Show table 20-A
Click to expand...

I am a little confused by that suggestion, not that I don't think its good advise it just that I am more of a visual learner then written learner. When you say the pivot is at the tip are you picturing the tip of the blade pointing up? the lock bit just has me scratching my head can you think of any examples I could look at to understand it better. this is one of those cases that its not you its me, I ran into this a lot in school too.
 
No problem. An isosceles triangle has both two equal sides and two equal angles, here is an example of one:

http://HogWildCustomKnives.com/hogwild/isosceles triangle example.jpg

I snipped a bit of your drawing and added the lock. I then drew a triangle from the center of the pivot pin, to the locking point (on the lock) and the center of the stop pin. Here it is:

http://HogWildCustomKnives.com/hogwild/lock example.jpg

You can see that the snip I modified looks like a right triangle, where all the legs are different lengths. If I were designing the knife I would try to set them like this:

http://HogWildCustomKnives.com/hogwild/Preferred lock.jpg

Again, I might not be able to get them to be a perfect isosceles triangle, but I would try to get it as close as possible.

Maybe others do it differently? I hope this helps.

Ron Bendele

http://HogWildCustomKnives.com

Ron at HogWildCustomKnives dot com

2010 Blade Show table 20-A
 
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Unfortunately the only picture that is showing up it the triangle the rest I am getting page not found errors, but I think I understand what yo are saying now even without the pictures. I will be tweaking it some more tonight, would have liked to see how you drew in the lock. The reason I haven't done it yet is because I am unsure of how to place it in the design for best support and strength
 
There is an article in this months blade magazine about countrfeit knives. I get the imprerssion that CRK are honoured by influence - but get really pissed off when someone starts adding their (CRK's) name or registered marks.

Rob!
 
Ooops, sorry. Made a mistake on the two links. I fixed them and they should work now.
 
I have no intentions of ever counterfeiting anyone's work ever. I am on edge about even coming close to someone's designs, but there are only so many workable designs out there and I will give credit where credit is due even if it was unintentional. If I make it and it turns out well I may even take a picture of it,send it to Chris Reeves and thank him for the inspiration.
 
rbendele said:
Ooops, sorry. Made a mistake on the two links. I fixed them and they should work now.
Click to expand...
thanks I fully understand now. Life with computers makes designing so much easier with your triangle idea in mind i should be able to adjust things in an hour or 2.
 
I use Rhino 3D, a friend had it and the people he was working for gave him the newer version so he gave me the old one. That is just the rough outline of the knife I want to get things figured out before taking int to full 3D
 
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