Copyright?

D

Don Nguyen

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Oct 4, 2011
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My dad was talking to me about this the other day, asking if other people might steal knife designs from other makers and whatnot.

Is this something any of us worry/think about? I understand that we all influence our works from everyone else, but if we had a unique design, how would you prevent someone from using a blatant copy?
 
As a maker of something that is imminently copyable, I realize that there isn't much I can do to keep others from copying it. I've been told as much from several other makers and believed them when they said it. I've got threads on here showing the original creation, giving credit to those that I took ideas from. However, without spending thousands on lawyers there isn't much else I can do.
 
You can also look at it this way.

Hundreds of thousands of knives have been made. How can anyone be sure they actually are making a 100% original design?

Even if you get a patent or copyright on your knife it is only as good as the lawyer you pay to defend it $$$$$.

You can not stop anyone from copying your design. Just look at the mass market knife industry. They copy makers all the time without permission and nothing is done.
 
AVigil said:
You can also look at it this way.

Hundreds of thousands of knives have been made. How can anyone be sure they actually are making a 100% original design?

Even if you get a patent or copyright on your knife it is only as good as the lawyer you pay to defend it $$$$$. You can not stop anyone from copying your design. Just look at the mass market knife industry. They copy makers all the time without permission and nothing is done.
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I'm thinking tens of billions. However, you may be able to get a trademark. Or a makers mark. So if someone else tries to sell copycats (ie Don Nguyen Knives), you could protect your knives that way. Maybe someone else (who knows a lot more than I do) will chime in about this.
 
You can file a trademark on your stamp/mark. You can't copyright because a knife as an artistic work is considered a generic work. Think in terms of a shirt. You can make one out of any fabric, any number of buttons or pockets, any color, even an exact copy of another shirt. The only way to get in trouble is by stealing the trademark, meaning any original artwork applied to the "generic work". This is why you see so many nearly identical knives legally on the production market.
 
I wouldn't worry about it too much Don. I feel like veteran makers are willing to help people like me because they know that you can't copy quality. No matter how many makers there are people are going to buy products that they know are high quality from reputable makers that have made a name for themselves over many years.
 
Why be concerned? Is your work really that much of a stand out, or are you so vain - I don't think so - to believe it is? At least this is the way I look at my work. Frank.
 
Na, nothing to worry about...Ive heard axe and knife makers say "My original this" and "my original" that...Really? Do you not think that in the millenia long history of bladesmiths that someone, somewhere hasnt made something like it before or at least close?
 
I was in the same train of thought as all of you to be honest. Thanks everyone :)

My dad just thinks that some company is going to steal a knife of mine eventually and claim it as their own, suing me in the future for making my own knife.
 
Don, you can always make "one" of someone elses without any problems of being nchared with something or other. Frank
 
I think the problems start to come up when a large company has a design that is basically copied by other companies that sell a large number of the knockoffs. eg: ZT, Microtech and Boker
 
All I know for sure is don't use Ernie Emerson's "Wave" or Busse's "Tallon Hole" patent. You will be called out quickly and dealt with severely. If it is at a show, Ernie will most likely tip your table and put your dominant arm out of joint... :p
 
Rick Marchand said:
All I know for sure is don't use Ernie Emerson's "Wave" or Busse's "Tallon Hole" patent. You will be called out quickly and dealt with severely. If it is at a show, Ernie will most likely tip your table and put your dominant arm out of joint... :p
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Agreed, though it would be interesting to hear his take on the 'wave' mod that's done to a lot of knives (Spydercos seem to be the main victim of this).
 
Not much Ernie could do about Spydercos getting modified. Even Busse can't do anything if an existing knife is modified with their patented Tallon Holes. Apple can't sue consumers for putting an apple logo on the front of a PC. Now, if DELL started making laptops with an apple on the front, I'm sure there would be a battle.
 
That's funny, before I ever saw a Busse, in '96 my high school metal shop teacher let me design and make a knife. It had "talon holes", thankfully most in our industry recognize that sometimes thoughts merge in or around the same time and that execution, materials, personal conduct and ideology and personal flair and craftsmanship are the reasons people buy certain knives from certain folks. Well I hope that was said eloquently enough not to invoke a riot act.
 
A mark can be seen. Proper heat treatment cannot be seen. As a buying consumer, I place my trust in the reputation of the maker. I can then experience to some degree whether my trust was not misplaced. I think that, given the realities, you can only build a reputation for quality and protect that.
 
Rick Marchand said:
Not much Ernie could do about Spydercos getting modified. Even Busse can't do anything if an existing knife is modified with their patented Tallon Holes. Apple can't sue consumers for putting an apple logo on the front of a PC. Now, if DELL started making laptops with an apple on the front, I'm sure there would be a battle.
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I don't think this analogy makes sense. Talon hole ≠ logo.

Did Loveless hate loveless style knives? I guess he should have trademarked the hollow ground with tapered tang feature.
 
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In this thread Busse said "YES, the lower front guard hole is a REGISTERED TRADEMARK of Busse Knife Co. " http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/273449-Talon-holes-Trademark-of-Busse

But the definition of a "Trademark" is...

http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/basics/trade_defin.jsp

Trademark, copyright or patent?
What is a trademark or service mark?

"A trademark is a word, phrase, symbol or design, or a combination of words, phrases, symbols or designs, that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others.
A service mark is the same as a trademark, except that it identifies and distinguishes the source of a service rather than a product. Throughout this booklet, the terms "trademark" and "mark" refer to both trademarks and service marks.
Do Trademarks, Copyrights and Patents protect the same things?

No. Trademarks, copyrights and patents all differ. A copyright protects an original artistic or literary work; a patent protects an invention. For copyright information, go to http://www.copyright.gov . For patent information, go to http://www.uspto.gov/main/patents.htm ."

So while I can see the words "Talon Hole" can be trademarked, can a hole in a knife guard be a trademark?.. What size hole? what location? What if the hole is oval? How about if it is counter sunk? etc.

So are the words "Talon Hole" the real trademark and they just lead people to believe all holes in knife guards is the trademark? It is hard to believe a hole in a knife guard is actually "Trademarked". If it actually is then there should be a clear cut definition of what that trademark consists of such as size, style and actual location.

I tried to find the trademark Busse Talon Hole but had no luck http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess&state=4004:pz8lnn.1.1
 
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