Copyright?

I searched and found someone linked this in another thread. http://www.trademarkia.com/logo-76172212.html

It seems like it is being used as a trademark of the company and would act just like the name Busse Knife Co. does. If thats true then I don't see why someone cannot just make a different shape or larger hole and say "This is a design feature. The intended use is securing the knife to ones hand during combat." Or something to that effect.

I don't see how he could claim trademark infringement on that feature unless you intentionally put it there to mimic his trademark and fool the buyers into thinking your knife is a Busse.

Just my 2cents
 
AVigil said:
It is hard to believe a hole in a knife guard is actually "Trademarked". http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess&state=4004:pz8lnn.1.1
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Why's it hard to believe? Do you watch mixed martial arts? There's a reason only the UFC uses an octagon while all the other promotions use round or hexagonal cages.

Spyderco's spyderhole is trademarked. Benchmade has to have permission to use it on knives like their AFCK.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...e-steals-the-spyderhole?p=4065358#post4065358

http://www.spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/index.php?item=7
Off of the website:
The Spyderco Trademark Round Hole is the industry symbol of quality....
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From the USPTO website:
A trademark is a brand name. A trademark or service mark includes any word, name, symbol, device, or any combination, used or intended to be used to identify and distinguish the goods/services of one seller or provider from those of others, and to indicate the source of the goods/services.
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From what I can find, if that hole in a knife guard resembles Busse's hole then it's a violation. It's up to people who get paid big bucks to argue whether it resembles the trademark or not.
 
To answer the OP's original question, yes, there are people, and companies out there that will copy any design that they think will earn them a buck.

There are exact replicas coming out of China of most successful production designs. Right down to Logo and name.

color of grips, pattern.

There are people in the US that will do the exact same thing. (Busse recently had a guy copy their AK sword. He ordered up a bunch of g-10 handles from another manufacturer to look like the AK handles.

If you design something super awesome, some one might copy it.


You should not let that deter you.
 
My design has been cloned in China.
Here is my take- build the best product you can. That way, the clones will always be second rate. It's difficult to enforce trademarks out of the US, but it will offer you some protection.
 
AVigil said:
In this thread Busse said "YES, the lower front guard hole is a REGISTERED TRADEMARK of Busse Knife Co. " http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/273449-Talon-holes-Trademark-of-Busse

But the definition of a "Trademark" is...

http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/basics/trade_defin.jsp

Trademark, copyright or patent?
What is a trademark or service mark?

"A trademark is a word, phrase, symbol or design, or a combination of words, phrases, symbols or designs, that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others.
A service mark is the same as a trademark, except that it identifies and distinguishes the source of a service rather than a product. Throughout this booklet, the terms "trademark" and "mark" refer to both trademarks and service marks.
Do Trademarks, Copyrights and Patents protect the same things?

No. Trademarks, copyrights and patents all differ. A copyright protects an original artistic or literary work; a patent protects an invention. For copyright information, go to http://www.copyright.gov . For patent information, go to http://www.uspto.gov/main/patents.htm ."

So while I can see the words "Talon Hole" can be trademarked, can a hole in a knife guard be a trademark?.. What size hole? what location? What if the hole is oval? How about if it is counter sunk? etc.

So are the words "Talon Hole" the real trademark and they just lead people to believe all holes in knife guards is the trademark? It is hard to believe a hole in a knife guard is actually "Trademarked". If it actually is then there should be a clear cut definition of what that trademark consists of such as size, style and actual location.

I tried to find the trademark Busse Talon Hole but had no luck http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess&state=4004:pz8lnn.1.1
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That is because it IS the "hole" that is the logo trademark, not the term "Talon Hole". The trademark documents describe the mark as such, "The mark consists of a hole in the rearward portion of the blade." (this is a direct quote). and the area of placement on a knife/tool is further defined by a drawing to show that any hole within the defined shaded area is covered by this "logo mark trademark". In the description of "Word mark", it is described as "no word". Like any active registered trademark, it is on the holder to enforce his/her mark to keep it valid and exclusive to that person's or company's products. This trademark record is public. Try searching "Busse" and "trademark" to find the document.
 
It seems wrong to use a trademark to restrict use of a useful design feature. If a design feature cannot be patented, it should be in the public domain for anyone to use.
 
Personally, I think it's an absolute joke that a single feature as SIMPLE as a single hole should be able to be "licensed" or "trademarked". I could understand if it was a uniquely shaped hole that took some actual effort to duplicate, and not 5 seconds on a drill press.
I mean, where does it stop? Can I trade mark a pivot hole? What about "liner holes" for skeletonizing. How about a lanyard hole? Maybe I should just trademark knife handles in general.

Ok, from now on, any of you mooks that think they can put a handle on their knives need to go through me! I'm trademarking it.

While I'm at it, I think I will trademark pointy blades and knives with choils at the ricasso.

Another question: Why do I have to ask for permission to essentially "use my drillpress", but not to build a knife with a liner lock, frame lock, or back spring. Why isn't the pocket clip trademarked? Doesn't spyderco claim to have basically started/popularized THAT idea?

I'm being a little "tongue in cheek" here, but I think certain aspects of these questions have merit.
 
fumbler said:
Why's it hard to believe? Do you watch mixed martial arts? There's a reason only the UFC uses an octagon while all the other promotions use round or hexagonal cages.
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You haven't really explained or justified anything here... just given another example of a company/organization trademarking what essentially amounts to little more than a common shape.

Are square boxing and wrestling rings trademarked?
 
I'm gonna trademark painted blades, rubber handles and anything with an edge that turns into a point
 
Well it seems it might be a good idea to trademark a semi circle at the rear of the blade (choil) call it a "Claw notch" and protect the hell out of it....lol
 
Bowxpress said:
I'm gonna trademark painted blades, rubber handles and anything with an edge that turns into a point
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TOO LATE! As specified in a previous post, I've already trademarked handles in general, as well as pointed blades.

You may however have "painted" blades. As long as they are not pointy.
 
You guys are safe to make any holes you want on your knives..... just don't call em as "A-Holes". I have a patent, trademark and copyright on anything refered to or known as an "A-Hole".:thumbup:
 
I have a patent pending on "mass holes"....

Holes designed and implemented to actually remove "mass" from the blade on an atomic level.

It's revolutionary, and at this stage, highly experimental and somewhat unstable.
 
This thread is probably teetering on the edge of being closed or moved. Which is too bad, because the discussion actually has some merit.
 
A trademark, like a patent, is subject to reexamination.
If someone shows that the "mark" in the case of trademarks or "invention" in the case of a patents was in use in prior art, the mark or patent is essentially doomed upon re-examination. Happens all the time.
So no, you can't trademark stuff that's already out there--if you seek one past the examiner, it will crumble if challenged, so you've wasted your time and $ anyway.
 
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