Cost gap-USA vs. Offshore

helobite said:
I saw that too, but when you get into the actual exceptions, you need to have a lawyer who will find all the little carve outs that Congress passed for their buddies. There are more holes in the system than Swiss cheese.

For a time there were "content" specifications that were dollar value based. May still be in place. Essentially a product could be completely fabricated abroad, but polished and boxed by an American with a made in USA label. An American's time just to polish and pack, can be more than the cost of expensive work done by slave laborer's abroad.
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Percentages and relative costs are relevant to the product categories that require percentages, and for the government procurement threshold, but not for general consumer marketing. For general consumer marketing, standard is very high, and you have to hit all three factors: (1) Final assembly or processing of the product occurs in the United States, (2) all significant processing that goes into the product occurs in the United States, and (3) all or virtually all ingredients or components of the product are made and sourced in the United States.

I'm not sure what "loopholes" you're talking about, since the FTC standard isn't particularly flexible (and it's set by the FTC, not Congress). In your example, only one of the three requirements would be met (final processing), so slapping a Made in USA label on the product would be an FTC violation. I think you might be thinking of the Buy American Act, which covers government procurement, which has a much lower threshold.
 
soc_monki said:
Actually, stuff from China CAN gain value. Anything Sharp By Design will either hold or gain value. That's the reason I put down money on the 2020 Evo preorder. If I ended up not liking it I knew I could sell it for what I paid and not be out any money. People routinely sell them for profit as well.

Just as with American knives, value depends on many factors. A standard, off the shelf We, Reate, or Kizer? It won't gain value, just as a standard off the shelf ZT won't. However limited production knives like Sharp by Design or the Gareth Bull production Shamwari? Yea, those will, just like a limited production Hinderer or CRK. Maybe not as much, but they will.

My Evo gets carried and used though. I could care less about resale value. It's just a damn fine knife, both aesthetically and functionally.
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I doubt any knives from Sharp by Design will gain value rather than just get discounted. The low batch production/ small name brands just haven't been doing well.

*The Lanius by Maxace used to go for $70-$75 the first few years it came out. Now you can get it for $46.95.

*A brand called With Armour makes a really nice knife called the Thor (says Storms on the blade). Their company website sells it for $86.99. KCC Edge bought a bunch of With Armour's inventory and is selling the Thor/Storms for $30. So if KCC is making a profit selling them for $30...how much were they at wholesale price?

Forget resale at this point...think about high fluctuation in retail cost. Bestech is able to remain price stability because of YouTube reviewers promoting them. If people would stop feeding the bear a Bestech Arctic would dwindle down to $15-20.
 
Frotier76 said:
I doubt any knives from Sharp by Design will gain value rather than just get discounted. The low batch production/ small name brands just haven't been doing well.

*The Lanius by Maxace used to go for $70-$75 the first few years it came out. Now you can get it for $46.95.

*A brand called With Armour makes a really nice knife called the Thor (says Storms on the blade). Their company website sells it for $86.99. KCC Edge bought a bunch of With Armour's inventory and is selling the Thor/Storms for $30. So if KCC is making a profit selling them for $30...how much were they at wholesale price?

Forget resale at this point...think about high fluctuation in retail cost. Bestech is able to remain price stability because of YouTube reviewers promoting them. If people would stop feeding the bear a Bestech Arctic would dwindle down to $15-20.
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That seems like a remarkably bad comparison based on two data points. I would actually say this is something of a renaissance for small name brands with Demko Knives, TRM, Sharp By Design, EMPEDC and others typically selling out immediately and only being available on the secondary market. And QSP, CIVIVI, CJRB and Bestech all seem to be pumping out new models and getting very solid reviews all around. Even somewhat more obscure brands like TwoSun seem to be doing very well from what I can see. I don't know if you're wrong or not, as I don't have any kind of access to their accounting data, but from the trends that I've seen in what dealers are carrying it seems to be very much the opposite of what you claim.
 
Frotier76 said:
I doubt any knives from Sharp by Design will gain value rather than just get discounted. The low batch production/ small name brands just haven't been doing well.

*The Lanius by Maxace used to go for $70-$75 the first few years it came out. Now you can get it for $46.95.

*A brand called With Armour makes a really nice knife called the Thor (says Storms on the blade). Their company website sells it for $86.99. KCC Edge bought a bunch of With Armour's inventory and is selling the Thor/Storms for $30. So if KCC is making a profit selling them for $30...how much were they at wholesale price?

Forget resale at this point...think about high fluctuation in retail cost. Bestech is able to remain price stability because of YouTube reviewers promoting them. If people would stop feeding the bear a Bestech Arctic would dwindle down to $15-20.
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They've already gained value, because they don't stay in stock anywhere for any real amount of time, selling out almost immediately. SBD does presales, with a very limited number of each model going to retailers and an even smaller number of "extras" available directly from Brian Nadeau. Same with Enrique Pena X-Series knives. Because demand is higher than the supply, the secondary prices stay high, and they never retail for less than full price.
 
OrangeBlueOrangeBlue said:
They've already gained value, because they don't stay in stock anywhere for any real amount of time, selling out almost immediately. SBD does presales, with a very limited number of each model going to retailers and an even smaller number of "extras" available directly from Brian Nadeau. Same with Enrique Pena X-Series knives. Because demand is higher than the supply, the secondary prices stay high, and they never retail for less than full price.
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Even though I have used mine a bit and touched up the edge, I could still probably get what I paid for it. If I would have left it untouched I could get a bit more. It's a pretty awesome knife though, so it's not going anywhere unless I absolutely have to let it go.

Two sun, qsp, all those guys won't have knives that gain value because they flood the market and don't have any real pedigree. Brian (sharp by design) does, as does Pena and Chavez. Their knives sell immediately, and secondary prices are up.
 
With the different brands I own now, I have no desire to venture out and acquire more brands.
There’s no doubt some of the Chinese offerings are well made, the reviews, pics and comments here prove they’re doing something right. IMO, the good companies will always be guilty by association no matter how well the quality is.
We’re all here because of our passion for knives and curiosity to see what everyone else is bragging about. The great thing about this community is that the collections/users are from so many budget driven choices that enable everyone to see what their options are.
Personally, I wouldn’t rule out country of origin to pat myself on the back and say I buy strictly U.S.A., I would have never discovered Viper Knives if not for the members here speaking highly of them and posting pics.
 
Murdamook said:
Is it just me, or are some of these knife specimens made in China really pushing the cost boundary? I’m not even sure it’s the actual manufacturer causing the high prices either. James Brand has Chinese manufacturing and charges an arm and a leg for their models. I just saw the Luft Concepts Avant. It’s a titanium liner lock with bearings and m390, but it’s $300. That’s absolutely outrageous for a knife made in China by Reate. I can get a titanium frame lock from ZT with analogous steel for $50 less than that. The entire draw of Chinese manufacturing was better quality materials for a cheaper price. What’s the point if you’re charging a higher price than US manufacturers?
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I’m shocked anyone actually considered buying that Luft Avant. It’s one of the ugliest knives I have ever seen.
 
NG VI said:
How often do you need warranty work on a titanium framelock?
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Judging by the “highest quality” production knife made probably more often than you’d think.

And not just warranty from defective workmanship but just things owners mess up as well, or a pocket clip getting caught on something and needing replaced. These things all happen very often.

I’d imagine warranty work is non existent with a Reate or a WE or whatever other chinesium knife you own. At least with USA made products you know you’ll be able to get your issue fixed. For people that actually use their knives and not just sit around fidgeting with ocd all day long warranty really matters.
 
severedthumbs said:
What happens when you need warranty work on all these Chinese made knives?
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In the case of sharp by design, Brian takes care of things. I don't know about others who use Chinese oems, though. I hear civivi/we take care of people. Artisan not so much. The others...? Which is why I stick with civivi if I buy a cheaper Chinese knife. Not a problem yet.
 
severedthumbs said:
What happens when you need warranty work on all these Chinese made knives?
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severedthumbs said:
Judging by the “highest quality” production knife made probably more often than you’d think.

And not just warranty from defective workmanship but just things owners mess up as well, or a pocket clip getting caught on something and needing replaced. These things all happen very often.

I’d imagine warranty work is non existent with a Reate or a WE or whatever other chinesium knife you own. At least with USA made products you know you’ll be able to get your issue fixed. For people that actually use their knives and not just sit around fidgeting with ocd all day long warranty really matters.
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Service and support for most of the collaboration knives are handled by the designer. If you have an issue with, for example, a Reate made Liong Mah knife, it goes to Liong's shop. That's the case for most of the designers; Pena, Nadeau, Begg, etc.

In the case of manufacturer branded knives, it's a little hit or miss. Kizer, Reate WE/CIVIVI all maintain Stateside points of service. I don't know about some of the other brands. I've gotten replacement hardware/clips for some of my China-made knives as easy as if I was dealing with Benchmade.

I'm certain that some of the lesser known names may be a problem for service, but the same could be said for some US based manufacturers. For the most part, the more common brands support the industry and are engaged in knife shows and industry events all over the world.
 
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