Cost of equipment

I too am poor, but I have respectable gear...

It took a lifetime of penny pinching and budgeting, but I made it happen. It all depends on what your priorities are. We tend to waste tons of money on frivolous purchases, all the time. This is money that could have gone to decent gear.

Do you eat fast food a few times a week? That stuff is malnourishing and expensive. It is by no means a necesity. Brown bag your lunch to work.

Excessive alcohol consumption is expensive. Cut back.

Stop all illegal drug use. :foot: That shit is crazy expensive.

Save money by making girls buy you drinks. :eek:

If you are young and strong, military surplus gear is inexpensive and rugged. Get an Alice pack(?), a canteen cup, surplus sleeping bag and make a Pepsi-can stove. That is what we all had to do, before we had money. I finally threw away my old GI chicken feather mountain bag a month ago. It was 50 years old, and the nylon was too crispy.
 
I've always had to think outside the box . I picked up a 1 year old never used REI backpack for ten bucks at a yard sale . Where there is a will there is a way.
 
Lots of good stuff here. I don't think there is too much of an elitist attitude, at least on this forum. I hiked, packed, hunted, and camped for many years with inexpensive gear just like I managed somehow (gasp! I don't know how lol!) with inexpensive knives for many years. I have finally made it to a point in my life that I can afford top end gear and knives, and I enjoy them very much. It doesn't make the wilderness experience any less to have inexpensive gear, at least in my opinion.
 
fixer said:
"buy quality, cry once" that's NOT being elitist... just a little experience that many times the cheap stuff may work poorly or fail easily. and quality ain't always expensive... because the quality stuff lasts, you may be able to find someone selling an older, high quality item with lots of use left in it.

end of season closeouts, ebay and other online marketplaces can be good sources for stuff at far less than it cost new.

and being able to hear the reviews of other people on what gear works and what's crap, what's "THE best" and what's "the best for the money". you don't need to gear up a;; at once, many people get their gear over many years... but avoiding the cheap junk will usually save you money in the long run.
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very true. since I started long distance backpacking I have had about 6 tents, 5 packs, 4 stoves. ect. the point being, if I would have bought the better stuff first and had someone to tell me what to buy I would have saved thousands. I started off with a Big5 tent and oldschool metal frame pack. I slowly bought new and better gear until I was were I am now. the other thing you can do is ask around for used gear on here or other backpacking site.

I for one have a thermarest zlite pad you can have.
 
For a good idea of a starter kit that you ( or anyone) can afford, you can look at the "campgear under $100" thread on bcusa.com.

I also agree with what a lot of others have said, a full set of gear is not a normal purchase. Most folks buy one thing at a time and then replace one thing at a time with a higher quality peice of gear.

david
 
I am one of the people on this forum who recommends good quality gear on a regular basis. The fact is that some of the best camping in my life happened when I was younger and only had about $200 worth of stuff.

The joy really comes from the quantity and quality of experiences, rather than from the gear, although as I get older I really do appreciate good quality gear. My recommendation is to figure out which gear is important to have quality for and start there (boots and a rain jacket). You will find that life has its poor times and richer times
so there will likely be a time when you can accumulate some better equipment.
 
I got into backpacking 25 years ago.

Now the high end stuff IS expensive still- but most of the average stuff is actually cheaper now adjusting for inflation than it was then.
 
Not all gear needs to be expensive. If you look around a bit you can get great deals on almost if not everything you would need. The only thing I really splurge on is knives.. and that is because I use those more and have more fun with those than I do a poncho or backpack or other piece of essential gear.

Military surplus is ALWAYS the first place I look when I need something. It may be heavier, but it is still usually of good quality, and cheaper.
 
XSrcing said:
The cost decent camping equipment is absurd. Most people can't/won't go out every weekend so justifying $100 on a poncho that you can sleep under seems absurd. $200 for a bivvy? No thanks. I've been looking around this and other campin/backpacking/survival forums and some people carry over $1000 worth of gear for a weekend camping trip! I love being outdoors. Hell, I moved from Dallas, TX to the Pacific Northwest specifically for that reason. But I almost never go camping without a car because I simply cannot afford the gear.

Another thing that irks me on this and many forums is the elitism. People will only recommend the top of the line equipment and will often look down on someone for using something lesser that is in their price range. This is not the thread for that.

I know there is some equipment that should you should not cut corners on for the sake of personal safety, so that is not what I am discussing.

Now that I'm done ranting, why don't we start a thread based solely on gear that someone on, say, a college student's budget could obtain? Or better yet, things they can make from inexpensive items?

Sorry for sounding so irritated, but I just saw the price for a hammock that was over $500 and it didn't include a scantily clad woman serving you drinks with little umbrellas in them.
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Calling us a bunch of elitists before asking for help is pretty stupid! If you don't want to or can't spend $100 on a poncho, DON'T! If you can't read a thread about quality gear without being enraged, don't read it. There are plenty of threads on cheap and homemade gear and the members here are always eager to help.

Like many here, I have some pretty expensive stuff, mixed in with gear that I made myself. I also work with a Scout troop where many of the scouts have very little money for gear, so putting together safe, servicable gear for not a lot of cash is important.

Bitching about the price of "decent" gear and insulting people isn't going to get you any closer to your goal. If you want to take up backpacking, buy what you can afford or afford what you want - Just quit blaming others, because you aren't entitled to squat.
 
XSrcing said:
I understand what you are saying, redpoint, but you must realize that the $180 used bag you sold is far beyond the means of me. That is unless I wanted to go into the wilderness with nothing but an empty bag.

I knew this thread would spark some controversy but a lot of people just don't understand the level of "cheapness" that some of us have to deal with.

Maybe in many years When the economy improves and my skills (Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo mecahnic) are in need I'll be able to spend $180 (2 days pay now) on an piece of used equipment.
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No - I'm not saying $180 is cheap, I just mean for the person I sold it to, who I assume wanted the $400 pack, he got a decent deal ... and didn't have to pay any tax.

Only you know what your financial limits are, but you should be able to get awesome used gear for a very good price. It may even be from the 1990s, but that's just fine. Some of my best gear is from the 1990s and is still going strong [stuff was better made back then].

You don't NEED awesome gear, but high quality gear is better value: performs better, you'll be more comfortable, and higher resale. Start with a decent used pack like an old Dana Designs so at least you're comfortable hiking [that's what I did back in 1993]. Acquire the gear slowly as the money becomes available. Maybe that means using a tarp instead of a tent or using a few wool blankets instead of a sleeping bag. I've known some pretty hardcore backcountry hikers that had el cheapo military surplus gear - they weren't always comfortable, but they were out there. Just make sure you have enough to cover your ass given the kind of hiking you want to do.

People on this forum have lots of good ideas, but start looking used. This is the season to buy used.
 
I have accumulated a pretty good stash of gear over the past few years, none of it did I pay full price for, thanks to taking the time to find deals on the stuff I wanted. Buying good gear doesn't have to be expensive, nor does spending lots of money always buy you good gear. You obviously have access to the internet, do some research before buying and once you have decided on what you want, start looking around online.

To help offset the cost of good gear, look at what you spend your money on now and where you can save up the extra cash to fund your gear purchases. Buying good gear (not necessarily spending lots of cash), will pay off in the long run. I know guys who have tents and bags that are 20+ years old and they use the gear regularly. Divide the cost of gear like that over 20 years, and the initial investment will be well worth it.
 
fixer said:
yes, but buying quality usually means you'll have fewer problems, and less "wasted money" if/when you decide to upgrade later.

and high price doesn't always equal high quality.

you can find quality cheap, but it's rare to find it at Harbor Freight.

dunno, an issue like the one you have seems to be more about "customer no service" a good company should stand behind the product and replace it if there's a problem with it. too bad ESEE doesn't make boots!



i'd send them back to them TOMORROW, with confirmation delivery and a written letter saying you expect a refund or exchange. if they're three weeks old it's worth a few bucks to try and make them honor their guarantee. :D
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Shoes must be in origianl condition... obviously they aren't if they broke... I've put maybe 8 miles a day on them since I bought em, so they aren't exactly in original condition.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Paris Hilton. She will serve you the drinks -- I don't know about the little umbrellas but I hear she likes Coke. And she can afford that $500 hammock for ya, too!

I think there's room here for the basics, the gear that gets the job done, rolls up in a cheap duffel, and leaves you money to spend on food besides. We talk about knives like Moras, sometimes, and with so many new knifemakers, even custom work -- real custom: your specs, their skills -- isn't too expensive.

Looking for a few good suppliers helps. Sportsman's Guide, Cheaper Than Dirt. Check out the dealers here on BF for good deals and discounts. You definitely do not need the greatest and best to have a good time outdoors. Just realize that some of the high-end is available for a reason. There are people who spend serious time under difficult conditions, and need to give themselves that extra edge.
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and dont forget sierra trading post. steepandcheapbackcountry.com as well
 
Boots

I backpacked for years, including the Pacific Crest Trail, in what were called "tennis shoes" - "Red Ball Jets" until I could afford Chuck Taylor's. No one told me that was beyond the pale. Maybe the walking staff (free) made up for such "primitive" gear.

Clothes

I wore what I had. Wool sweaters, wool socks, and a surplus poncho were the "technical" stuff. (Today, polyester fleece has such wear resistance that the second-hand stores are full of fleece garments - cheap.)

Shelter

Tarp and a little gadget that held mosquito netting mini-tent over my face and chest area (a little noisy a few nights - nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn) The tarp was (GASP!) cotton and listed through a little in downpours, but it also help up to some real gale winds.

Sleeping

Blankets (heavy) and a down comforter I picked up at Good Will were my bedroll. Surplus USMC air mattress (and repair kit - sssssssssss) made for more comfort.

Stove and other cooking.eating

Cooked on a surplus "Squad Stove" - good only for water, soup and stews - on (!!!) or off - no simmer. Cost $3.00 at Don's Second Hand. Fuel bottle was a 1 qt. paint thinner can.

No. 10 cans and second-hand aluminum pots and bowls from Good Will for cooking and eating. (Now you can pay $30 for a polypropylene eating kit or use polypropylene "convenience food" containers that are just as good and free.)

Surplus SS canteen(s). (Now you can use any number of juice, water, and "aid" bottles made of PETE.)

Flashlight

Surplus pilot's Pen Light (2 x AA) (Much better LED's are available for $5)


Now? I buy gear because it's fun to mess around with. But, looking back, I had no less fun with a kit that cost hardly anything.

Much of today's "essential" gear didn't exist, so we (somehow) did without.

Garage sales are, indeed, a good source. Saw a Gregory pack last month for $10.00. Maybe 5000 cu." Still had the tags on it. Lots of other top-end stuff. Lady said her husband was going to go "hiking" with the Scouts, but quit after one experience.
 
Erasmus said:
I too am poor, but I have respectable gear...

It took a lifetime of penny pinching and budgeting, but I made it happen. It all depends on what your priorities are. We tend to waste tons of money on frivolous purchases, all the time. This is money that could have gone to decent gear.

Do you eat fast food a few times a week? That stuff is malnourishing and expensive. It is by no means a necesity. Brown bag your lunch to work.

Excessive alcohol consumption is expensive. Cut back.

Stop all illegal drug use. :foot: That shit is crazy expensive.

Save money by making girls buy you drinks. :eek:

If you are young and strong, military surplus gear is inexpensive and rugged. Get an Alice pack(?), a canteen cup, surplus sleeping bag and make a Pepsi-can stove. That is what we all had to do, before we had money. I finally threw away my old GI chicken feather mountain bag a month ago. It was 50 years old, and the nylon was too crispy.
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Darn good points. I've got a buddy who dips 60 bucks worth of snuff a week. That is alot of gear he spits away.
 
XSrcing said:
I understand what you are saying, redpoint, but you must realize that the $180 used bag you sold is far beyond the means of me. That is unless I wanted to go into the wilderness with nothing but an empty bag.

I knew this thread would spark some controversy but a lot of people just don't understand the level of "cheapness" that some of us have to deal with.

Maybe in many years When the economy improves and my skills (Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo mecahnic) are in need I'll be able to spend $180 (2 days pay now) on an piece of used equipment.
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Have you tried Goodwill or any other used goods stores in your area? Colorado and the PNW are notorious for having very high end brands like Arc'Teryx for 90% of retail in their stores. Check Marshall's and TJ Maxx as well. You will find very good deals, especially in the winter months when they have that inventory.

$180 for a $400 might be out of your reach, but I bet you can swing $40 for a $400 pack. :)
 
Erasmus said:
Do you eat fast food a few times a week? That stuff is malnourishing and expensive. It is by no means a necesity. Brown bag your lunch to work.
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Holy crap, I can't agree with this one too much. Since I opened the store, I have been eating out every lunch, seven days a week, plus a bunch of nights since my wife and I were working so much. I don't do much fast food, but I was eating a lot of Atlanta Bread Company (similar to Panera) and other semi-fast food places.

I had to go through my bank statements and mark purchases as personal or business related for my bookkeeper and that whole process was seriously enlightening. I was spending about $500 a month on eating out, which is ridiculous. Now I eat PB&J pretty much every day for lunch. $500/month can buy some nice gear. :D
 
It doesn't matter what "brand" of gear you buy, it matters what "type" of gear. An expensive, well-made gadget is the wrong choice if it's unsuitable to your task at hand or purpose. And as time goes by, I personally am starting to loathe the prospect of buying any more gear. I try to make do with what I have. And I have discarded or sold my gear "mistakes".
 
Like you and others in this forum, I have a very limited budget. Others have mentioned this, but I can't stress enough the importance of being patient and planning ahead. Clearly define what you need and what you want (those are two different things) and start looking regularly in ebay, Craiglists, other discount websites, and your local army surplus store and gun shows.

I got a brand new in-the-box Victorinox Hunter for $4.95 in Ebay, but it took a little over a month of following auctions near closing time. Got a brand new Kabar kukri machete for $20 at a gun show. Last day of the gun show, 30 minutes before closing and the last machete he had left. Just waited and haggled for it. Got used, but like new, a Rei New Star backpack for $20 and a SleepCell E Sleeping Bag for $5.00 at yard sales. That took some time and a lot of yard sales. That I can remember, the only knife/camping item I bought at MSRP was a Kershaw Ken Onion Rainbow Chive I got my wife for her birthday. Payed MSRP because I did not plan ahead.

My point is, you can get good or decent equipment on the cheap without necessarily sacrificing quality if you are willing to be patient, shop around, and go for second hand items in good condition.
 
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