could it be possible Microtech changed the looks of the ZT 0777 clone?

[Thomas W]

Its not a weak stance. Its a real legitimate question. "How can Microtech bring a product to market faster than ZT when they copied the design from ZT and are both produced in the USA??? I can see working for ZT might have you a bit jaded on the subject but dismissing it doesnt exactly make it go away. I can make a guess as to what the answer is ....but I would like to know ZT's official answer. I am sure this question should have been, or at least better have been, asked internally. I cant possibly be the first person on the forum that ask this??? An answer like "ZT was totally blind sided and never saw it coming" is a perfectly acceptable answerer if thats what happened. I am trying to piece this event together.

Well you've gone from stating you don't like either company, to calling MT a winner for having little integrity, and finishing with questioning us with how quickly we come to market with new products.


Now you're asking how can a fake make it market before the original...The correct answer is, who cares. Before - After, point is it's still lame...well at least in my eyes. Others like yourself I guess have different opinions on that subject?

 

[Morrow]

get out of where, this is general.

I'm reading Thomas' comment more as an idiom. Thomas is a sharp guy...I'm sure he knows where he is posting.

 

[Thomas W]

Thomas is a sharp guy...I'm sure he knows where he is posting.

Who's on first?

 

[Morrow]

Its not a weak stance. Its a real legitimate question. "How can Microtech bring a product to market faster than ZT when they copied the design from ZT and are both produced in the USA??? I can see working for ZT might have you a bit jaded on the subject but dismissing it doesnt exactly make it go away. I can make a guess as to what the answer is ....but I would like to know ZT's official answer. I am sure this question should have been, or at least better have been, asked internally. I cant possibly be the first person on the forum that ask this??? An answer like "ZT was totally blind sided and never saw it coming" is a perfectly acceptable answerer if thats what happened. I am trying to piece this event together.

Why does it mater? Are you saying you believe it is okay for a company to steal another companies intellectual property and beat them market? Steal and be first to market = a win?

 

[Fanglekai]

Why does it mater? Are you saying you believe it is okay for a company to steal another companies intellectual property and beat them market? Steal and be first to market = a win?

I don't think he's saying it's ok. I think he's quite clearly asking why ZT took so long to get the 0777 out for sale. If a company designs something, releases the design, but doesn't produce the product, then it allows for other companies to hit the market with copies before the original item. Obviously this is blatant infringement, but it sounds like this is what happened with the 0777. I think most people on here know how MT isn't a reputable company, so I don't think anyone is shocked that they copied another knife design. It sounds like mystro simply wants to know why ZT released the design for the 0777 and then took so long to produce the knife that MT had a copy out before the original.

 

[jill jackson]

What I want to ask, is why would someone not care for a knife company and have owned many of the brand in the past, plus have more on order? Very contradicting it seems to me.

 

[Thomas W]

Just for the companies future knowledge, and general curiosity, what's the acceptable time frame window we are apparently missing when it comes to the release of a new product? By this I mean by both the customers and the manufacturers (the ones ready to jump you in an ally to beat you to market with your own designs)?

 

[Morrow]

I don't think he's saying it's ok. I think he's quite clearly asking why ZT took so long to get the 0777 out for sale. If a company designs something, releases the design, but doesn't produce the product, then it allows for other companies to hit the market with copies before the original item. Obviously this is blatant infringement, but it sounds like this is what happened with the 0777. I think most people on here know how MT isn't a reputable company, so I don't think anyone is shocked that they copied another knife design. It sounds like mystro simply wants to know why ZT released the design for the 0777 and then took so long to produce the knife that MT had a copy out before the original.

I won't pretend to understand Kershaw / ZT's production demands and schedules. The Speedform was Blade's 2009 knife of the year and it took a looooooooong time for that knife to hit the streets. The bottom line is it is Kershaw / ZT's prerogative to release what they want...when they want. They shouldn't have to worry about their designs being ripped off and produced by another American company.

 

[Thomas W]

Oh and to the design, it looks like MT tried to morph the 0777 and the WS, thus pouring salt on an already sad situation IMO.

 

[You Hurt My Head.]

In all honesty, I think KAI, being a more reputable company with excellent customer service, wants to insure that their products fit and finish is flawless before bringing it to market. Because they actually have to pay for those mistakes if they don't get them right. You can't tell me you haven't read all the horror stories involved with MT knives falling to bits and then taking 3 years to be replaced if at all and not make the simple logical leap that they rush their shit to market to make a fast buck and leave their consumer hanging in the breeze if the product isn't up to snuff. Especially when they steal designs and want to leave a reasonable doubt that there is some kind of coincidence involved with them releasing a knife with nearly identical form and function(The ZT is much better looking though). I've been here for 3 months and read more than enough for a lifetime of avoidance of Microtech and I haven't gone digging. This one is a no brainer. Perhaps, Thomas would feel more inclined to talk with you in a reasonable sense if you weren't so damned passive-aggressive about the whole thing and provided you had a question that wasn't blatantly obvious.

 

[mystro]

Thank you.... Yes this is exactly what I was asking...I was curious how MT could manufacture so quickly or perhaps they were doing somthing different? Ethics have nothing to do with my question. Is every one paranoid? It's like I am talking to a bunch of politicians dodging the question and then misdirecting the topic.

Yea, I have a 0560 and 0561 on order with GPK since Aug. Thomas, i find your defensiveness odd considering you are representing the ZT company. There are a lot of knife companies out their to purchase from.
And here is a pic of a few of my ZT knives.....
I have no problem giving a strait answere and backing up my story, not that I should have to. I have been honest, respectful and strait up from the beginning.

I don't think he's saying it's ok. I think he's quite clearly asking why ZT took so long to get the 0777 out for sale. If a company designs something, releases the design, but doesn't produce the product, then it allows for other companies to hit the market with copies before the original item. Obviously this is blatant infringement, but it sounds like this is what happened with the 0777. I think most people on here know how MT isn't a reputable company, so I don't think anyone is shocked that they copied another knife design. It sounds like mystro simply wants to know why ZT released the design for the 0777 and then took so long to produce the knife that MT had a copy out before the original.

 

[unit]

Never mind....this is not worth it.

 

[harkamus]

Perhaps it is time for me to shut her down. I don't think there is much left that can be said in here. In hindsight, I should have thought twice about asking this question thinking matters wouldn't get personal. I'll keep it up for a little bit longer and see what turns up in commentary.

 

[espnazi]

No please stay. I just want to hear ZT's answere to my question. There is no wrong answer here Thomas, just a inside explanation. There is no reason to feel defensive. I am not insinuating or implying anything. I just want to here how its done.

I dont work for KAI or have insider knowledge, but from following all of their announcements this is what I assume. ZT has a whole lot of R&D so that the product kinks can be worked out before production. They will also be making many more pieces than MT, they have to handle material availability plus have the production schedule to make it. Remember apart from them making many Kershaw models and the entire ZT line, they have come out in the past year with many new designs(0551, 0550, Tilt, 0560-1...etc) whose demand is also very great. in fact so great is demand for certain products KAI has decided to trim their line and streamline and is continuously improving their factory.

Many knife companies have knives in development for many years(i.e. Spyderco tuff), what Thomas did was allow it's customers to preview such and share with the world how ZT is evolving. Unfortunately what this event with Tony has created is for KAI to be more reserved on what they show or exhibit.

 

[Thomas W]

I dont work for KAI or have insider knowledge, but from following all of their announcements this is what I assume. ZT has a whole lot of R&D so that the product kinks can be worked out before production. They will also be making many more pieces than MT, they have to handle material availability plus have the production schedule to make it. Remember apart from them making many Kershaw models and the entire ZT line, they have come out in the past year with many new designs(0551, 0550, Tilt, 0560-1...etc) whose demand is also very great. in fact so great is demand for certain products KAI has decided to trim their line and streamline and is continuously improving their factory.

Many knife companies have knives in development for many years(i.e. Spyderco tuff), what Thomas did was allow it's customers to preview such and share with the world how ZT is evolving. Unfortunately what this event with Tony has created is for KAI to be more reserved on what they show or exhibit.

Man I should have posted this...

 

[Jfoley4]

to call one knife ugly and one awesome is weird. its the same knife. I dont know the whole story but thomas is so good to this forum. He doesn't have to answer to anyone. The microtech is a cool knife because it was a copy of a cool knife.

 

[espnazi]

to call one knife ugly and one awesome is weird. its the same knife. I dont know the whole story but thomas is so good to this forum. He doesn't have to answer to anyone. The microtech is a cool knife because it was a copy of a cool knife.

While I kinda of agree, the MT just looks more grotesque and unrefined.

 

[Fanglekai]

Just for the companies future knowledge, and general curiosity, what's the acceptable time frame window we are apparently missing when it comes to the release of a new product? By this I mean by both the customers and the manufacturers (the ones ready to jump you in an ally to beat you to market with your own designs)?

That's up to the manufacturer. I'd rather wait longer and get a perfect knife, but of course lusting after a new design means wanting it asap. I think that the disreputable companies are going to release their copies as soon as they can, especially if the original design doesn't come out quickly after it's shown. The only way to avoid the copies coming out before the original design is released would be to have intense secrecy and not release any information on new designs until they're already being produced and ready for shipment to dealers. Then you'd run into the problem of "spies" or people leaking info.

I won't pretent to understand Kershaw / ZT's production demands and schedules. The Speedform was Blade's 2009 knife of the year and it took a looooooooong time for that knife to hit the streets. The bottom line is it is Kershaw / ZT's prerogative to release what they want...when they want. They shouldn't have to worry about their designs being ripped off and produced by another American company.

Exactly. MT is not a reputable company. I have never owned any of their products and I will discourage anyone I know who is interested in knives from buying any of their products. People who buy knives can refuse to purchase from companies that engage in these kinds of practices and can influence their friends to do the same.

 

[Apec]

I own one Microtech, a 2009 Makora II DLC/PE, but I don't see myself getting any more. Overpriced, slipping QC, poor CS, and on top of that the latest IP infringement makes it hard to believe that they still have fans. After cutting down on the planned gun-related expenditures, I think I can make room for the real McCoy 0777. I could dump the Makora too...though I'd like a ZT OTF to replace it. Unfortunately that OTF project was canceled.

 

[Stainz]

I just got home from M.O. and Randy Y. - thanks` a lot for telling the world about our knife emporium, CrimsonTideShooter! Now everyone will see his stash of Kershaw Tilts, ZT-0350TS/0550/0551/0560/0561, CRKs, DPX Hests, LionSpys, etc. The secret is out! You obviously are better funded than a retired college instructor, perhaps demonstrated by the fact that you skipped the Victorinox & Buck sections on that LH side - and didn't make it to the Boker, KaBar, Becker, and ESEE offerings at the end of the first (RH) side. You also skipped over his real Dozier, Wm. Henry, and even Arno Bernard knives. It's been a few years, but I remember when there was a single knife display cabinet in the original RH front corner of the store. My best buy then was from a clearance bin and a new Western #66 fb with a mismatched sheath. Now he has stock many mail order stores dream of! Also, don't forget Surefire - he still has a stash of Furys - never ran out! Great store... now the world knows!

Yes, his prices aren't great - but they have overhead. Sadly, they also have 9% S/T! Still - you can peruse the goodies. That is worth something, to be sure. Matrix/Whale/Tilt - not my style. Love last Saturday's goodie - a ZT-0561.

Stainz