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It's well known that ALL Martian knives are crap, all are direct copy of Terran designs and they use underage Venetians in all of their factories. They'll destroy the economy of the rest of the solar system if left unchecked.
 
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Hackenslash said:
It's well known that ALL Martian knives are crap, all are direct copy of Terran designs and they use underage Venetians in all of their factories. They'll destroy the economy of the rest of the solar system if left unchecked.
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That's horrible. As tough as things are in Venice those kids are already at a disadvantage.



Traditionally, meaning both "a long time ago" (maybe as much as 10-20 years ago kids;)) and regarding traditional knives, the USA, Germany, and going back further Sheffield, England all have a reputation for quality cutlery.

Modern knives lend themselves better to mass production techniques.

What frustrates me about the more rare Chinese slipjoints (since this is a "China thread" and not a COO thread;)) is the nice fit and finish but the dearth of better steel. Even better mystery steel.

The Ganzo G725 is kinda clunky but not bad with Krupp steel. I think the weird Colt titanium plated carbon steel slipjoints are China made. Rough Riders are great looking for the cost but I'm not a fan of the steel. Great talk, no walk, like fake boobies.

Any more China slipjoints?
 
Blues Bender said:
Haha! Water underfoot, that's hilarious. I almost bought an Infiniti G35 a while ago, but I heard they had an issue where water would get trapped in the AC ducts resulting in a "piss smell":D FWIW, the used one I test-drove was smelling a little funky, perhaps it was the salesmans bad breath.

Shoes you say? I wear my work boots almost everywhere; they're Carolinas and they're comfy as hell! The only other thing I'll stick my foot in is K-Swiss:)
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Well my G35 was continent and didn't have any smell so I must have beat the odds again. :cool: Allen Edmonds shoes for work and Brooks or Asics afterward. I don't have many occasions to wear work boots but my Red Wings have gone to a better place. I'll have to check out Carolinas.
 
I'm not sure what these videos about explosions and collapsing buildings have to do with the COO for knives? Mebbe you guys thought you were posting in the "Let's make cruel and inhuman fun over the death of people far away" thread?

davek14 said:
Rough Riders are great looking for the cost but I'm not a fan of the steel. Great talk, no walk, like fake boobies.

Any more China slipjoints?
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I've had the same experience with Rough Riders. When I first started collecting knives, I bought up a bunch of Rough Riders so I could "have" a Stockman, Trapper, Canoe etc in my collection. The knives themselves were incredible...for $10...but I don't think I'd ever trust one to reside in my pocket. Same thing with the M-Tech and Tac-Force knives you see littered all over the auction site. There certainly are a lot of Chinese stinkers. That said, I still have all of those Rough Riders tucked away in a knife roll but I use them as a tool to illustrate types of slipjoint, nothing more.
 
bld522 said:
I agree. I'm not a big fan of blade etching either. But for $118 :eek: . . . oh, what a knife! :thumbup: Fluted Titanium handles, Titanium backspacer, Titanium clip, S35VN blade steel, caged ceramic bearings, effortless flipping, rock solid lockup, perfect centering . . . what's not to like for that kind of price? :) I can't wait to see what the pricing will be like on the upcoming Kizer/Laconico collaboration. I suspect the knife will be too large for me to EDC, but I'm such a big fan of Ray's knives I may need to buy one anyway.
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Do you own or have access to a materials testing lab? If not, you haven't the first clue as to whether what is claimed to be used in the construction of the knife actually contains any of that.

In short, that utter lack of credibility in Chinese manufacturing in general is inescapably a part of the buying decision for a great many discerning customers, and is the heart of many negative impressions of any made in China knife.

Why on earth would I stake $118 on the chance that what is claimed in a product is really present? I'd rather pay any number of more reputable companies in any number of less corrupt countries/business cultures, for way more certitude.

After all, it was Chinese manufacturers who tried to poison my dog from afar by cheating on the protein content in dog treats through toxic additives. A recall perhaps saved our pet from gradual organ failure.

It's gonna take an age, and then some, for Chinese manufacturers to escape the general reputation that plagues them all, fairly or not. For now, Made in China means that someone with trust and resources, like Apple for instance, has to be the intermediary or I won't bother to buy.

"Keep it strictly about the knives?" That's not possible for anyone unwilling to voluntarily don blinkers to as to every issue that revolves around the actual manufacture of a product.
 
Boats said:
Do you own or have access to a materials testing lab? If not, you haven't the first clue as to whether what is claimed to be used in the construction of the knife actually contains any of that.

In short, that utter lack of credibility in Chinese manufacturing in general is inescapably a part of the buying decision for a great many discerning customers, and is the heart of many negative impressions of any made in China knife.

Why on earth would I stake $118 on the chance that what is claimed in a product is really present? I'd rather pay any number of more reputable companies in any number of less corrupt countries/business cultures, for way more certitude.

After all, it was Chinese manufacturers who tried to poison my dog from afar by cheating on the protein content in dog treats through toxic additives. A recall perhaps saved our pet from gradual organ failure.

It's gonna take an age, and then some, for Chinese manufacturers to escape the general reputation that plagues them all, fairly or not. For now, Made in China means that someone with trust and resources, like Apple for instance, has to be the intermediary or I won't bother to buy.

"Keep it strictly about the knives?" That's not possible for anyone unwilling to voluntarily don blinkers to as to every issue that revolves around the actual manufacture of a product.
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You make excellent points. I agree 100%.
 
CPM, for one, has confirmed that they sell steel to certain Chinese manufacturers and some of those manufacturers have provided third party assays. Incidentally, those are the same manufacturers I've supported in this oft derailed thread.

Your argument is as valid as condemning all 'Murica because some corrupt venture capitalists defrauded investors of their retirement money (which I can most assuredly happened with more historical certainty than consumers were sold knives made of unicorn horns). If one is bad, surely aren't they all? Can someone who opposes Chinese manufactured knives please discuss it with logic and no videos? Is every discussion on knives from Asia destined to end with small fists pounding in the sand?

In this same thread I've praised and criticized SPECIFIC knives from firsthand knowledge or research. Can you do the same?
 
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Hackenslash said:
CPM, for one, has confirmed that they sell steel to certain Chinese manufacturers and some of those manufacturers have provided third party assays. Incidentally, those are the same manufacturers I've supported in this oft derailed thread.

Your argument is as valid as condemning all 'Murica because some corrupt venture capitalists defrauded investors of their retirement money (which I can most assuredly happened with more historical certainty than consumers were sold knives made of unicorn horns). If one is bad, surely aren't they all? Can someone who opposes Chinese manufactured knives please discuss it with logic and no videos? Is every discussion on knives from Asia destined to end with small fists pounding in the sand?

In this same thread I've praised and criticized SPECIFIC knives from firsthand knowledge or research. Can you do the same?
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Logic? Surely you jest with the implied claim that your position is wholly rooted in logic and not the least bit in confirmation bias.

Like it or not, Chinese knife end user, you now have a very concrete stake in being right about your purchases and a motive to defend them, which is what you are doing here.

It is not logical for me to bet my own $100 plus on the chance, yes, chance, that I am actually being delivered what I am promised by the advertising copy of a PRC made blade when the general track record on above board manufacturing in China is sooooo continually freakin' poor.

It doesn't matter to me one iota whether Crucible executives came by my house and swore on the lives of their mothers that they ship steels I trust to companies that I won't trust. Those materials could all be diverted for an illicit profit out the back door while crap ships from the front. Third party assays are no better because the overwhelming stench coming off of PRC manufacturer ethics for years now is the moment someone isn't putting the stink eye to the efforts, corners are cut and liberties taken.

Do people get defrauded in US securities markets? Happens all the time. However, there are also highly visible industry and governmental efforts to effectively combat it and a court system where one has a legitimate chance at redress.

Until public and private corruption in the PRC is reined in A LOT by the powers that be in government and industry there, and I can know, rather than hope, that I am getting goods actually manufactured in a world class fashion and to the letter of the claimed specs, I'm staying away from any PRC product where the chain of custody of the raw materials and processes is not intermediated by a reputable Western concern.

Other than that, I have no beef with a PRC made item. The iPad I am writing this on functions flawlessly. I wouldn't buy such a tablet without Apple's own legendary attention to detail back stopping the effort though.
 
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Once again, can you please share with us KNIVES you've hade experience with? Your entire post kinda proved my point, bro.
 
Hackenslash said:
Once again, can you please share with us KNIVES you've hade experience with? Your entire post kinda proved my point, bro.
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You and your bros just don't get it. Trusting a manufacturer is a threshold issue.

I ain't spending a dime on these knives until I am completely satisfied an elaborate con isn't their endgame. All I can get now in a PRC knife from a PRC wholly owned company is what they're telling me I am getting, and I don't trust that as far as I can throw it.

You be the guinea pig with your money.

And quit conflating PRC manufacture with "knives from Asia." I have plenty of the latter that I trust completely. My kids have lots of garbage blades from the former.
 
The points raised in manufacturer trust are perhaps more salient than anything else here. No amount of talk on either side will convince those who have tried and own quality Chinese knives that they are not so (nor should they, really, if they have tried and are satisfied with them) and these small steps will not be enough to convince detractors that they should risk their money. Probably not for awhile, anyway. Apple Inc was brought up and it is a company to which I flatly refuse to give a dime, for certain ethical reasons, but it works for others. At the end of the day, no one really has any moral high ground here.

As to the topic of China knives, I only own knives produced there from non-Chinese companies and I assume we are talking actual Chinese from China knives, like Reate, etc, in which case I can't comment.

Actually I do own an SRM model from davek, a small thing that functions well for the price.
 
RedLynx said:
The points raised in manufacturer trust are perhaps more salient than anything else here. No amount of talk on either side will convince those who have tried and own quality Chinese knives that they are not so (nor should they, really, if they have tried and are satisfied with them) and these small steps will not be enough to convince detractors that they should risk their money. Probably not for awhile, anyway. Apple Inc was brought up and it is a company to which I flatly refuse to give a dime, for certain ethical reasons, but it works for others. At the end of the day, no one really has any moral high ground here.

As to the topic of China knives, I only own knives produced there from non-Chinese companies and I assume we are talking actual Chinese from China knives, like Reate, etc, in which case I can't comment.

Actually I do own an SRM model from davek, a small thing that functions well for the price.
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I appreciate your comments and completely understand the notion of "threshold trust". Its something that's required in any purchase whether its a knife or a microwave oven. But consider the two Chinese brands that have dominated the discussion in this thread; Kizer and Reate. We're not buying these knives online from XYZ-Express, we're getting them from Blade HQ, Knife Works, Knife Center, etc. These are not only reliable retailers but known members of the knife community who stand behind the products they sell. Kizer and Reate aren't without advocates and endorsements; highly respected knife designers and manufacturers are using them to manufacture blades of excellent quality at a price point that more knife aficionados can afford. If, at least in these two cases, a knife fan hasn't approached their threshold of trust perhaps that threshold needs to come with a tin-foil hat? If a knife enthusiast is still at the point where they say that they won't buy Kizer/Reate due to matters of trust, they really just need to revise the statement to they intend to not buy Kizer/Reate at all for personal reasons. And that's fine. That's a perfectly rational and valid opinion; one which I support your right to have.

To a large degree this discussion is rather academic. For me, and most other early adopters, these Chinese blades represented incredible value for the money...a couple of years ago. As more and more knife knuts are discovering them and buying them, the price/value has begun to erode. If you're not on board yet...well, that ship has sailed. Honestly, I don't see myself buying as many of these brands in the future as I search for other high value "finds"...and it I don't buy them, you can bet I can back up my decision with logical reasons based on research, experience and logic. They may be fine knives but they don't fart unicorns. There are lots of other competitive options in that price range from all over the word.
 
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