Coyote Protection?

Back to the OP's question, I would carry something with more stopping power then a 22 (I carry my kimber pro carry w/CT grips) This is because there is a very good chance a coyote that willing to get close enough to you to attack you or your dog is rabid. I say this mainly because 'yote are generally scared of both you and your dog. They, at time, have been known to try to lure your dog to a waiting pack (rare but does happen) but I don't believe that I have ever heard of a pack taking a dog in front of it's owner.
Back to needing more stopping power...Why you may ask...I have heard 'yotes are smaller out west but here in Vermont they get pretty big. The new York state record Coyote (DNA verified 100% 'yote) Was 115lbs!!!! As the crow flies it was taken within 75 miles from where I live (The man who killed it frequents one of the local gun stores and they have a bunch of pictures of it, it is huge) Now call me crazy but I believe a 115lb coyote could kill most dogs at its weight or less...which is MOST dogs. If there is a chance of coming against a rabid 115lb coyote (even if its about 1/10^6) I know I want more then a 22 to stop it (like my 45 acp w/ 185grn barnes XPB's,norma brass &7.5grs of N340) (The S&W 460 may be over kill:D:D) There are many choices that would be good 38, 357, 44, etc...I carry my kimber because thats my edc handgun and it would be silly for me to have a dedicated"dog walkin' gun" My suggestion is get what you feel comfortable with, are willing to carry often (light, not bulky)and practice enough to shoot it well
Happy trails:)
 
Like others on this thread, I've had many, many (like thousands) of encounters with coyotes over the years. I lived in Arizona for many years and backpacked everywhere there. Coyotes are everywhere there.

Coyotes are great and fascinating animals and not a significant threat to anything bigger than a cat -- particularly near inhabited areas where they're already scavenging a lot to eat.

I've had them laying under a tree at the edge of my camp just idly watching me for hours. No problems for me or them.

I've only had one hostile encounter and that was ended by throwing a big rock at the coyote and swinging my walking stick. Seriously, they just aren't a realistic threat to you or your dog (I backpacked with smallish dogs all that time, never a problem, although my dogs would often chase them off in a flash of canine macho.)

If you really want to carry a gun, I agree with others here that a .22 is fine for Coyotes (odds are the pop will send them running whether you hit it or not). I don't buy the "stopping power" when it comes to coyotes -- they run at the first slight injury. They don't keep coming. Stopping power matters with humans and bears and sometimes, only sometimes, mountain lions (which are also likely to run when hurt). Coyotes don't need stopping power: they run.

But if you really want a gun, get yourself a S&W Model 63 revolver -- an expensive but a superb trail gun. With a 63 on the trail, you'll end up killing more cans along the way than coyotes, trust me, I know... :)
 
the thing is normally a coyote is going to have nothing to do with you. we (mostly) agree on that. So if a coyote is going to attack you or your dog in front of you it is probably sick/rabid. (see above) thus the question is do you trust a 22 to drop a RABID, LARGE (around here thats 70+lbs) coyote? I once shot rabid 'coon (with a 22) and had it charge me (Ijust shot it again no big deal) My point is I don't trust a 22 to stop any canine that is bent on attacking and IS NOT SCARD OF A BANG (because it is sick)
Lets put this another way
a rabid coyote is 1) not scared of people and 2) probably not scared of a loud noise
kind of like your average dog
Dogwood would you pick a 22 to stop an attacking 70 lbs german shepard
well...I guess you already said you would but I for one would not
but hey opinion are like assholes...:D
BTW yes HEALTHY coyotes would run away after being hit with a poor shot from a 22
But thats not what I am talking about
 
VTguy said:
The new York state record Coyote (DNA verified 100% 'yote) Was 115lbs!!!! As the crow flies it was taken within 75 miles from where I live (The man who killed it frequents one of the local gun stores and they have a bunch of pictures of it, it is huge)
Click to expand...

This link seems to dispute that it was a "coyote" in fact it states it was, a hybrid escaped wolf/dog and it was even neutered.
http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/coyote.asp
 
Last edited:
A word or two on stopping power. I've been a Firearms instructor for a Federal Law Enforcement Agency for the past 14 years. The term "stopping power" is probably the most abused phrase in the gun owner/nut vocabulary. Handguns to put it in simple terms are nothing more than varying sized hole punchers; a .45 punches a bigger hole than a .22. Of course you can mix in hollow points of varying descriptions (gold dot, hydro shok, black talon, et al) that do little tricks to make the hole a "little" bigger by expansion, etc.
Unfortunately the terms temporary wound cavity and permanent wound cavity come into play here and unfortunately this is where handguns come up on the short end of the stick.
Handguns or pistols, suffer from low velocity rounds (when compared to long guns) so their wound cavities amount to punching a hole with a jagged stick. Of course if the round exits the other side, it can produce some nasty looking messes depending where your shot is placed (discussed later). Long guns on the other hand produce massive amounts of damage and horrible permanent wound cavities due to their velocities.
An example I like to use when teaching a firearms class is consider taking a small stone and holding it above a puddle of water say 3 feet high. If you let the stone drop, it will create a cavity/tunnel temporarily through the water. The ripples will go out from the point of impact and you may even lose some water from the puddle due to splashing but the majority of the water will return when the ripples reach the edge of the puddle and come back <--thats a pistol round.
Now take that same small stone and rare back like a baseball pitcher and slam it into the puddle releasing it from three feet away. You immediately loose all kinds of water from splashing and the ripples will be so violent that many will escape the borders of the puddle and never return. <---Thats a rifle round.
Remember, the stone is the same size; it&#8217;s the velocity that matters. In a pistol that you want to carry for "stopping power" of a coyote or any other animal for that matter, you are &#8220;dropping the stone into the pool&#8221;. What counts is shot placement, vital organs, brain, central nervous system, etc.
A couple of cases in point; my very good friend at a small east Texas police dept. was called to a domestic several years ago, things went very bad when the (very average sized and sober) husband grabbed a .357 from a drawer. My friend was carrying a .9mm at the time. He quickly drew his weapon and shot the man 4 times in the abdomen. Thinking this would stop him, he paused, and the man winced from the pain but turned and fired once at him. Seeing the weapon pointed at him, my friend stepped back tripping over a chair and fell to the floor. He believes the man though he had hit him because he fell. The husband then turned to my friends&#8217; partner and shot him twice in the chest. My friend&#8217;s partner fell to the floor. Seeing this, my friend came to his knees and emptied 10 rounds into the man. The man staggered but had enough left to put one more round into my friends partner, killing him. My friend fired one last round into the man&#8217;s ear ending the situation. My friend no longer carries a 9mm.
Not too long after this, a man was causing a disturbance at a local bar at a nearby town when one of their officers responded, a very large, intoxicated man charged him with a knife. This officer also carrying a 9mm, placed one round, center mass dropping the man instantly, game over. Shot Placement!
Knock down power often used interchangeably with stopping power is a largely myth. Simple laws of physics, "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction" So the stories of shooting a man with a .45 and having him fly backwards through walls, windows, doing back flips is BS. If it had the power to do that, it would also knock the shooter down as well. You&#8217;re punching a glorified hole, nada mas. Now there are other issues that come into play such as does the round have enough penetration to hit a vital organ, fragmentation, etc.
My advice, if you want to carry a pistol for defensive purposes, for coyotes, bad guys or whatever. Do like someone said above 1.) get a gun that&#8217;s comfortable to carry &#8211; a big massive desert eagle .50 cal will do you no good if its too big to carry and sitting in your drawer at home when the caca hits the fan. 2.) Spend the money and get a reliable weapon. Caliber is up to you and what you&#8217;re comfortable with. When I&#8217;m out fishing or hiking, I carry a colt mustang .380 but have been known to carry a .22 when I really want to go light. If I&#8217;m in a bad area or on a long trip, I carry my H&K P2000 .40 cal. Dress for the occasion I guess. 3.) and MOST importantly, learn to shoot the weapon! SHOT PLACEMENT, SHOT PLACEMENT, SHOT PLACEMENT. Remember--> sight alignment and trigger control. If you should come across that one in a thousand coyote that is 115 pounds, foaming at the mouth Rabid, has fangs 8 inches in length and has an uncontrollable desire for human flesh, shooting him in the ass will only give you something to laugh at as you pass through his behind two days after he has consumed you and needs to poop.
Enough rambling..just my .02 besides, talking guns, knockdown power, caliber size, best round, etc. is ALWAYS a recipe for arguments.
 
I've dropped a coyote with a Ruger 22 caliber 10/22 and he didn't go far...a few steps and he was down, still got the pelt. If your concerned with stopping power a S&W 357 works for me and would make an excellent trail gun. I carry a S&W model 65 357 and its great. I love the ability to load it with 38 specials if I choose and I can even use bird shot. Someone mentioned a revolver that shoots 410 shotgun shells and it can also shoot 45 colt. That revolver is made by Taurus called the Judge.
 
Fair enough, if we agree to stipulate that coyotes seldom exhibit predatory behavior with people around (or dogs bigger than cats) then I suppose the point about any coyote that DOES exhibit aggressive behavior is sick or possibly rabid is very sound.

And in that case, I'm still not convinced that anything bigger than a .22 is required. Here's why: most people imagine rabid animals to be like the ones they see in movies, snarling, savagely hunting down others determined to spread the disease like zombies.

That's not really the way it works.

I've had three encounters with rabid animals (two dogs, one coon) and that's *not* what they do. Rabid animals are a complete mess, I mean they're REALLY sick and want to be left alone. They're dangerous primarily if you mess with them and they bite you.

If you talk to wildlife people, rabies gets spread not by rabid animals wildly attacking healthy ones; instead it's spread when a healthy animal attacks a rabid one and gets bitten by the sick one.

So, yes, if your dogs choose to go after a rabid coyote AND if your dogs don't have their vaccinations it's a real issue. Or you get in the middle of it when trying to pull your dog off a rabid animal and get bitten it's very bad.

But the vast majority of the time -- like nearly always -- a rabid animal will NOT come after you just because you're near.

That doesn't mean that rabid animals shouldn't be killed. They should be killed and safely disposed of. It does mean that rabid animals aren't a particular threat if you don't mess with them. They're out of their minds with illness, yes, but they like any sick animal they pretty much want to be left alone.

VTguy said:
Dogwood would you pick a 22 to stop an attacking 70 lbs german shepard
well...I guess you already said you would but I for one would not
Click to expand...

Fair enough :) you win! If a 70 lbs German Shepard was coming at me then I would prefer to have my .357 with me, for sure. But if all I had was my .22 I wouldn't worry too much. Hell if I had a board I wouldn't worry too much.

I lived for a year in West Virginia when I was kid and in Appalachia there is ALWAYS some kind of dog after your ass when you're a kid in woods..... :)
 
I hike and hunt with a small Brittany Spaniel in southern AZ. We have coyotes all over the place. They sing in our neighborhood at night, and take care of the stray cats. I have seen them carrying cats out of neighborhoods in our town, and seen the remains after they eat one (just the skull with some fur still attached). No question, they will predate on small domestic animals. Small dogs, less commonly, but they have taken some of those, too.

My Brittany weighs 27 pounds. I hunt with a 20 guage that is loaded with quail-sized shot, so ... I carry a pistol. .38 Special or 9mm. Usually 9mm, because of other issues we have down here near the border.

Call me paranoid if you want, but that is what I do. And I've taken shots at coyotes to ensure that they leave my dog alone. They take off running immediately, if I don't hit them. If I hit them, they don't go anywhere. I don't usually worry about hitting them, though. Just keeping them away from my dog is my goal.

Last time I did this was Saturday. Coyote was eyeing my dog from a distance -- maybe 70 yards or so -- but lit out when I fired at him. NBD.

Me and my dog, I'm carrying a gun.
 
jill jackson said:
This link seems to dispute that it was a "coyote" in fact it states it was, a hybrid escaped wolf/dog and it was even neutered.
http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/coyote.asp
Click to expand...

no doubt... well teach me to take the word of people at the gun store with corroborating pictures... point still stands what ever the hell it was it was a feral animal in the woods:)

Dogwood said:
I've had three encounters with rabid animals (two dogs, one coon) and that's *not* what they do. Rabid animals are a complete mess, I mean they're REALLY sick and want to be left alone. They're dangerous primarily if you mess with them and they bite you.
Click to expand...

This has been my experience with most rabid animals too. Usually they are in very bad shape, but they are unpredictable many times you will spot them first though,as they are generally in a daze, and not acting in there normal fashion which includes not concealing themselves the way they normally would and not following their normal wake/sleep patterns

jasonp I have never heard of a 45 knocking anyone through anything but I agree with you 100% most important thing is to make sure you get something you will carry and practice practice practice!! (it's fun to anyways:))
in the end in that 10^6 to 1 any gun is better then no gun

the funniest thing in this thread to me is, I can't imagine carring a gun for coyote and not people....people are far, far more likely to ever cause you trouble
 
Bear Claw Chris Lappe said:
I've seen many coyotes shot with .22's.
I've seen them dropped dead in their tracks and I've seen them run off wounded.
I've never seen one shot and continue attacking.......

Pain is a great motivator to RUN. :D
Click to expand...

I've shot ground squirrels with a .22 LR solid point that scampered off to their holes in the ground afterward. They didn't come back out, but if a ground squirrel can still run after getting hit, a coyote should be able to absorb a lot more. Now, the squirrel I hit with a HP dropped where it got hit.

Just like with people, gun shots do funny things to animals. Sometimes they drop them right away, and other times serious, fatal hits are barely even noticed.

I wouldn't count on carrying a .22 LR as a great defense against coyotes. Sure, it could kill one, but how quickly? At what range? How good of a shot are you? What if there are several of them, all intent on attacking your dog, child, etc.?

I've had coyotes sit right beside a trail and watch me ride past on my mountain bike, as if they were trying to decide if I was worth chasing. I've seen a lot of them loafing along, checking out livestock to see if anything looked easy.

Don't underestimate what a coyote can do. Being cocky or just saying "I never felt threatened" isn't going to do much good on the rare occasion that a coyote (or several) decides you ARE worth going after.
 
go to VPR website they had a woman on last weekend who was attacked repeatedly and extremely viciously by a 'coon, it also talkes about the epidemic of rabies in the NE (NY specifically on the site) Whether or not it is common rabid animals will attack

Crap I think it was NPR not VPR just a sec......
OK it was on the oct 31 episode of this american life Act one
originally aired in '06
I have never heard of a raccoon doing this before in my entire life....Worth a listen!!
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top