CPM 3V. Is it the perfect steel?

I've not heard that from anyone else. So far everyone is saying that it's a crucible version of vanadis 4e, which is described by all accounts of being a balance between the toughness of 3v and the other properties of m4, while also being fairly corrosion resistant.
 
Leg bones ? If you want a real test --a deer legbone is 7 X denser than a beef leg bone ! Better to make nice braised venison shanks than ruin a nice blade !
 
Cold Steel's Warcraft Tanto is in 3V at 60-62 HRC.

I think that I'll get one of those when my bank balance is looking healthy again.

Maybe my Christmas present.
 
I have two customs. One in CPM Cruwear, and one in 4V. Both at rc 63. Both kind of thin with the cruwear blade somewhat thinner but both much thinner than production type knives.

To be honest I can't tell much performance difference between them. One would need a harder, longer test procedure like Jim Ankersons to get somewhere on them. To me, they, along with PD#1, Z wear, , 3V, ingot Cruwear and Vascowear ( several different knives , some custom, some production are all about in the same class of steel.

I can tell the difference between the powder steel and ingot especially when sharpening.

I can tell the difference in the same steel at rc 60 and rc 63.

I can tell the difference between the thinly ground customs ( especially as they are higher hardness) and thicker production types.

I have not, and likely will not be doing any testing to destruction. I like these knives very much! :)

I won't be sending them to Jim Ankerson as one he had to test already and he will be getting a different length and style blade for his testing of 4V but the heat treat and final hardness will be the same as mine. When he then gets the time and supplies ( all that rope gets pretty expensive so think about that before you go requesting more and more knives. :)



To me they occupy the performance niche between D2 and CPM M4 which is not anything to sneeze at in all honesty. The 4V is going to have the edge on wear, the 3V and powder vascowear descendants should be tougher. I say in theory because with steels this close the heat treat and tempers can change scores or even things out.

As far as calling 4V a non stainless S30V Sure. Wear resistance wise it should be pretty close ( nothing to sneeze at BTW) with better toughness and edge stability . I read in the beginning S30V was intended to be a "stainless 3V" by the guys at Crucible. Then they wanted to up the vanadium for better wear, etc. Just a bit of irony there IMO. I could use just about any one of these steels as my "last knife" choice I like the attributes in this class so well. It's been that way since my first encounter with Vascowear decades ago. There again I could make the same claim about O-1, 52100, L6, W2, Super Blue, and a few more.

Say, for any of our UK'ers how is "silver steel" as a user? Does it compare to any US steel?

joe
 
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3V is some great steel. I've been very pleased with edge holding and toughness using this steel. Large or small knives, it gets the job done with the appropriate grind/edge geometry depending on blade length and uses.
Scott
 
How does 3V compare to PD1?
 
PD#1=CPM Cruwear=Z Wear=(ingot versions) Vascowear, Cruwear, Lescowear,SB Wear etc.

3V = Cruwear/Vascowear made tougher by lowering the carbon, powderizing (didn't have powder steel cruwear/PD#1 back then) and trying to keep the abrasive wear resistance up by increasing the vanadium carbides.

It doesn't have the secondary hardening response of the Cruwear/vascowear steels. It's tougher at rc 58, but try running it at rc 63 and CPM Cruwear will not only show better wear but catch up in toughness to 3V, maybe better it. I've never ran any destruction tests on any of mine and don't plan to. I prefer 3V at rc 58 for choppers. Everything else I like CPM Cruwear. My Phil Wilson CPM Cruwear at rc 63 and .005 can do anything I personally want to do. Pretty darn good edge stability for a high wear steel.

Joe
 
When steel use to be made by digging up some black sand and smelting it to make iron then folding and pounding it while adding straw to get carbon and thus steel then I think the bladesmith's skill at making swords and knifes was very important because he was also making the steel. Today, very high quality steel with specific heat treating procedures are available and predictably reproducible. Given that, will most end users ever really see the difference between carbon steels (like an o1, 1095) or between stainless steels (420HC, 440C)? I mean between carbon vs carbon and stainless vs stainless. An obvious difference between stainless and carbon in rust resistance. But will I really know when I'm skinning an animal if I have the 440C a CPM 3V blade? Is it that much a difference to really make it something to consider? It's not like I am a world class athlete like a swimmer where a speedo vs a wet suit does make a difference. I mean really, seems like every few years there is a new better steel. Meanwhile, I have a Ka-Bar that is from around 1990 and and an uncle henry that was my dads and they work and cut just fine.
I know, some blade shapes work better for some tasks than others and stainless would be a better choice around salt water but other than that does it really matter?
 
riokid87 said:
....but other than that does it really matter?
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I'm inclined to agree with much of what you've said, and yes there is probably a limit to how much work and expense should be given to the type of steel in return for what you might gain. Is there a difference between 440C and CPM-3V? Yes there are, but the *average* user may never notice them in a general utility/hunting knife. Most Bladeforums members, however, aren't average and can probably recognize the keener and tougher edge provided by 3V. A number will notice that it wears better, but likely not recognize that it's because of toughness and not adhesive/abrasive wear as is the common measure of wear resistance. If you're dressing and skinning a deer, you'll never notice and have all year to sharpen the blade again before next season. If you're dealing with a hog, elk or bear, etc. you'll certainly notice because your knife will be dull before you finish. If you're chopping things, especially hard things, you'll notice because 440C will microchip and go dull with the same edge geometry you put on 3V, and 3V won't do that. All that leads to the short answer. "Does it really matter?" Yes, but it depends on who you are and what you're doing and for most people the answer is "no", but for most Bladeforums members the answer is "yes", because they are more knowledgeable and demanding.

Personally, I've become a bit sanguine about blade steels because for most, a good steel, which 440C isn't quite in my opinion, is sufficient and a super steel is overkill. I've recently been using PSF27 for most of my knives and find it a more than adequate compromise on the qualities I want in a steel, and the feedback I've had has been uniformly positive. 3V is better, and I use it when a blade will be challenged with stresses that demand extra toughness. I've also not found any high alloy steel that takes a finer edge than 3V. Your question is a good one, and should probably be asked more often.
 
Nice to hear you mention PSF27. That's what this (and my next DDR) has.

[video=youtube;siW7bPpQNwc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siW7bPpQNwc[/video]
 
Out of the steels I have delt with lately I think CPM 4V has very high possibilities, only time will tell though as more of it gets into peoples hands.

It's actually better than I thought that it would be and can be taken into the higher HRC ranges (64) and still have good toughness and edge stability while ground thin, edge retention is excellent.

So we will have to see, it's still pretty new yet so it will take some time for the makers to start working with it and get their HT protocols down to what they need.
 
Ankerson said:
Out of the steels I have delt with lately I think CPM 4V has very high possibilities, only time will tell though as more of it gets into peoples hands.

It's actually better than I thought that it would be and can be taken into the higher HRC ranges (64) and still have good toughness and edge stability while ground thin, edge retention is excellent.

So we will have to see, it's still pretty new yet so it will take some time for the makers to start working with it and get their HT protocols down to what they need.
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I'm anxious to try more blades in 4V. Considering the toughness looks to be close enough to 3V and the edge holding appears to have the potential to be about as good as S30V this is the steel I want to try in the woods. I think bushcraft knives and hunting knives are naturals for this steel. There's just not much available yet.

Even though it's not stainless, I think this would make a good medium-large folder blade steel as well.

I'm hoping more knives are made in 4V but haven't seen much yet. I just ordered a Bark River Knives Gameskeeper 4V but I want more.
 
I'm curious how CPM 3V would work on a strop as compared to A2 ? I have a Bark River in A2 and was shocked how easy it was to get screaming sharp on a strop. I've been thinking about getting the LT Bravo in CPM 3V.
 
TheGearGuy said:
I'm anxious to try more blades in 4V. Considering the toughness looks to be close enough to 3V and the edge holding appears to have the potential to be about as good as S30V this is the steel I want to try in the woods. I think bushcraft knives and hunting knives are naturals for this steel. There's just not much available yet.

Even though it's not stainless, I think this would make a good medium-large folder blade steel as well.

I'm hoping more knives are made in 4V but haven't seen much yet. I just ordered a Bark River Knives Gameskeeper 4V but I want more.
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Spyderco has a Mule Team coming up in CPM 4V soon so keep your eyes open for that, watch the Spyderco Forum for the announcement etc. :thumbup:
 
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