CPM S90V Spyderco Military

JJ---Spyderco, in my mind, is the No. One knife company. They do not rest on their laurels! But they are not the only company that keeps evolving.
 
I did everything I could to make the edge on my Native chip. Hasn't yet. I also got my D2 mini-Grip to shave hair - when some folks said that was not possible. All this leads me to believe that the "interweb" is a great place for rumors and inuendo, on the positive and negative side. I have become a bit of a spyderco addict as of late, but more because their knives are so competitively priced than any other reason. And I never would have bought a para-military if I hadn't been able to try out S30V on a much less expensive blade. Cheers to the companies that feed the addiction!
 
Chopping branches to clear a path through dense sections of brush does not overly test the wear resistance of a steel, but it does severely test the ability of an edge to resist lateral forces without rolling. Because this is the environment where I live, I've come to appreciate toughness more than super hardness. I wish 3V was more popular, but we seem to be in a trend toward wear resistance.
 
Twindog said:
Chopping branches to clear a path through dense sections of brush does not overly test the wear resistance of a steel, but it does severely test the ability of an edge to resist lateral forces without rolling. Because this is the environment where I live, I've come to appreciate toughness more than super hardness. I wish 3V was more popular, but we seem to be in a trend toward wear resistance.
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I guess this is because there are not too many of us out there chopping branches to clear path through dense sections of brush with 4" long blade on the folder, which Spyderco Military is.

I did not really remember any branch chopping knives made out of steel we discuss here. May be because we are talking about edge holding which is not so critical for branch copping knives.

I suggest you to have a look at SRS15 - G-Sakai Samurai Bowie and of course some big Busse.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
I guess this is because there are not too many of us out there chopping branches to clear path through dense sections of brush with 4" long blade on the folder, which Spyderco Military is.

Thanks, Vassili.
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Yes, that's right, Vassili. But sometimes on cross-crountry day hikes, I end up having to cross a brushy area, especially if I have to cross a stream. I don't carry a machete because of the weight, so once in a while it's nice to flip open my folder to get me through a rough patch.

My only point was that toughness is an important quality that tends to be under-rated, especially in multipurpose knives. If I get lost in the woods, my pocket knife suddenly becomes my best friend. And in every survival situation, I'd prefer toughness to edge-holding. But both have their place.
 
isn't the point to try to get the best of both worlds? the toughest possible steel with the best edge retention? it's always going to be a compromise. it's an alloy.
 
With INFI, CPM 3V, A2 the need for tough steel pretty much covered. Noss4 video batoning through stainless steel tube pretty much prove that your have your tough steel if you need.

Edge holding area clearly has room for improvement, less clear then toughness (testing is much complicated and not really developed yet to complete solid understanding) and this is the reason why there is more attention to this.

For myself - I have more then enough INFI and A2 and one CPM 3V and even SRS15 knife to be used when toughness needed. There is even A2 folder around like Mission etc.

Now what I see in many cases when there is a talk about edge holding there are always attempt to switch the rail to toughness and switch criteria so real super edge holding steel like ZDP189 and CPM S90V will looks worse then exteremely cheap and tough A2. Of course they will not be as tough as A2 or INFI, but they are not unacceptable tough - they are tougher then 440C, which should be enough for small folder!

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Just got my S90V Military. The edge on mine, while sharp and quite usable, is not as evenly ground as on the other Military's I have recently gotten (BG-42 & CPM-D2). Probably just the variations that occur when things are built, but, could this result from the reported difficulty of machining S90V? Has anybody else compared S90V with the others side by side?
 
Yes, I have. Oddly enough, the factory grind on my BG-42 Military was lopsided, and it was even on my S90V. In my informal testing, which consists mainly of carrying and using enough knives at a time to convince knife knuts that I'm crazy, the S90V has left everything else behind for what I do. Construction/demolition/renovation work is hard on knife edges, especially in a building made mostly of concrete and steel. Drywall repair and reducing old carpet to manageable pieces are routine tasks. CPM D2 and 440V stand up to those things pretty well, ZDP-189 does a bit better, and S90V does noticeably better yet.

Not very scientific, just the observations of a working stiff.
 
Larrin said:
We've been over this before....S60V is brittle when taken very hard, hardness is important for thin knives. S90V is extremely wear resistant, it's true, but the highest wear resistance doesn't equal the best steel. S30V is tougher than S60V, S90V, S125V, ZDP-189, etc., and has better edge stability, corrosion resistance, ease in sharpening, ease in working, ease in heat treating, etc. S30V has extremely high wear resistance, I don't even know why you'd want any more.
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I realize that S30V looks good on paper, but I've had 3 or 4 knives in it so far, and each and every one of them has been horrible in terms of edge holding. I've never seen the chipping problem that others have seend. I realize that I might have gotten some with bad, heat treat, but they are all quite expensive. If it had been something like a $10 Mora, I'd probably buy a couple more and try again. But given the premium that S30V commands, I'm not buying a knife in it ever again.

I realize that other people have had good experiences with it. Some makers that I have a lot of respect for give it high marks. But it has been horrible in my experience, and I can't reconcile that.
 
Sodak, just out of curiosity: Have you drastically altered the edge angle on those S30V knives? How low did you go?
 
HoB,

Actually, I kept the factory angles on all the S30V knives, just matched them on my Edgepro. I made sure to sharpen at least half a dozen times to get past any "burnt" metal at the edge, in case that was the problem. Unfortunately, it didn't help.

I'll take 52100 or similar down to 10 per side with a small microbevel.
 
sodak said:
I realize that S30V looks good on paper, but I've had 3 or 4 knives in it so far, and each and every one of them has been horrible in terms of edge holding. I've never seen the chipping problem that others have seend. I realize that I might have gotten some with bad, heat treat, but they are all quite expensive. If it had been something like a $10 Mora, I'd probably buy a couple more and try again. But given the premium that S30V commands, I'm not buying a knife in it ever again.

I realize that other people have had good experiences with it. Some makers that I have a lot of respect for give it high marks. But it has been horrible in my experience, and I can't reconcile that.
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Wat is your observation on CPM S60V (aka CPM 440V)?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
Wat is your observation on CPM S60V (aka CPM 440V)?

Thanks, Vassili.
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I haven't tried that yet. I just finished some D2 v.s. CPM D2 testing, and I'll try and post the results shortly. The best edge holders that I've seen so far are CPM 10V at 64.5 HRC and M2 at 65/66 HRC. That's edge holding while cutting soft but abrasive materials, not twisting through anything hard or chopping, or anything like that.
 
sodak said:
I haven't tried that yet. I just finished some D2 v.s. CPM D2 testing, and I'll try and post the results shortly. The best edge holders that I've seen so far are CPM 10V at 64.5 HRC and M2 at 65/66 HRC. That's edge holding while cutting soft but abrasive materials, not twisting through anything hard or chopping, or anything like that.
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No I am talking about old CPM 440V (S60V) not CPM S90V. Which was substituted with "better" and over promoted steel CPM S30V. The one on the bottom:

Spyderco_Military_440V_005.jpg


Thanks, Vassili.
 
Nice knives! But I haven't used either S60V or S90V, so I can't compare them to S30V. The S30V knives that I tried had edge holding comparable to AUS 8A, at 3 times the cost or more. I got rid of almost all of them, I might still have one laying around. But there are too many other steels to play with, enough is enough for me.
 
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