CPM3V vs CPM4V

gsx-rboy750 said:
I had it treated by a good company. Known for 3v. I talked to them before and they said to stay at 61 or under but I wanted some test pieces.
I flexed that knife 4-5times to 50degrees + and probably another five times at around 45.
I tend to think it was just treated too stiff and abused to the point of failure. It was a learning experience for me.
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I think that the flexing may be part or all of the culprit. There's no way you're going to 50º+ multiple times without leaving stresses or weakness in the blade. Did you have to straighten the blade after each bend or did it come back all the way perfectly straight by itself?
 
aarongough said:
I think that the flexing may be part or all of the culprit. There's no way you're going to 50º+ multiple times without leaving stresses or weakness in the blade. Did you have to straighten the blade after each bend or did it come back all the way perfectly straight by itself?
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It came back on it own. This was probably a lesson for me in a couple things. However I will add I did not see a big difference in edge retention between 61 and 62 and will not do 3v above 61 again.
 
Battoning a knife in the cold through frozen wood is extreme use. I would use a steel like S7 or buy a gransfors bruks axe to do the splitting. The 3v break doesn't look right, could be the HT but it's hard to say unless the process is given.
 
As for the CPM 4V, I have b=never seen if anywhere other than from the manufacturers distribution chain and it was PRICEY!!!! As best as I can tell, Vanadis 4E is almost identical and we do have examples of that in production from folks like Lion Steel for sure in some of the OEM stuff they do for other folks like Knife Research..
 
Well again after reading everyone's comments I think 4V is not the direction I should go after this but rather try some less hard 3V and the Z-wear I am about to have heat treated.
I like battoning with a knife for a couple reasons and have had and have axes. I just prefer battoning when I am backpacking and also it puts less stress on a knee that has had surgery. It is easy for me to sit down and split a 4-5 inch diameter piece of wood in lots of kindling fast.
I do also think repeatedly flexing the knife just to "see what would happened" has proved itself. I no longer have the need to do such out of normal use destruction test.
I think based on feedback, my uses and learning I know now that toughness is important and I am willing to have a 60RC over a harder but less tough blade going forward.
Thanks all.
 
Flexing a handful of times in the elastic range should not have weakened the blade much at all if any. How were you fixturing the blade when you were doing the flex tests?
 
jdm61 said:
As for the CPM 4V, I have b=never seen if anywhere other than from the manufacturers distribution chain and it was PRICEY!!!! As best as I can tell, Vanadis 4E is almost identical and we do have examples of that in production from folks like Lion Steel for sure in some of the OEM stuff they do for other folks like Knife Research..
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CPM4V is available at reasonable prices from Niagara Specialty Metals, but only if you buy a full sheet (2'x3'). Anything less than that and the markup is about 400%
 
aarongough said:
CPM4V is available at reasonable prices from Niagara Specialty Metals, but only if you buy a full sheet (2'x3'). Anything less than that and the markup is about 400%
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Ya I found the same thing when pricing stuff out from them. I think I am not going to try 4V.
I found the same thing with PD1 when trying to find some. It seems you need to order alot to get a decent price.
Zapp has alot of Z-wear for sale and in different sizes and for what I found to be a be a decent price.
 
That is not reasonable for most people. What kind of price are we talking about ? $1000 or more for a sheet? A bit steep for the average knife maker who jus wants to try the stuff out. ;)
aarongough said:
CPM4V is available at reasonable prices from Niagara Specialty Metals, but only if you buy a full sheet (2'x3'). Anything less than that and the markup is about 400%
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jdm61 said:
That is not reasonable for most people. What kind of price are we talking about ? $1000 or more for a sheet? A bit steep for the average knife maker who jus wants to try the stuff out. ;)
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Depends on the thickness, but after shipping, yeah around that.
 
I though a 3/16 cpm3v was around 450 for 2x3 but i may be remembering things wrong so I would think 4v in the same spec was around 500ish but again I dont remember for sure.
But like Gough said the discount is steep.
 
No. Half a sheet or 12x 36 is like $550 from Aldo.
gsx-rboy750 said:
I though a 3/16 cpm3v was around 450 for 2x3 but i may be remembering things wrong so I would think 4v in the same spec was around 500ish but again I dont remember for sure.
But like Gough said the discount is steep.
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If I remember right I was quoted about $650 for a 2x3' sheet of 'timesaver' ground 5/32" CPM4V. That doesn't include shipping or duty or anything though. CPM4V was about the most expensive material they had because it's still fairly rare. The other materials like 3V and CPM154 were less expensive.

One thing worth noting is that Niagara Specialty Metals do have a waterjet on site and can cut out blanks for you. This will reduce the shipping expense quite a bit because the blanks are lighter/smaller than a full sheet. When doing that they will quote per part rather than per sheet, and I think it works out to be very reasonable as they only quote for the material they use. They probably ship the scrap back to Crucible.
 
That is cheap. Interesting that they jack it up so much on anything smaller than the full sheet. I wonder if that is an agreement with their wholesale customers like we see with some companies like Council tool where their direct to the public website price for their axes is the same "discounted retail" price as what their customers charge?
aarongough said:
If I remember right I was quoted about $650 for a 2x3' sheet of 'timesaver' ground 5/32" CPM4V. That doesn't include shipping or duty or anything though. CPM4V was about the most expensive material they had because it's still fairly rare. The other materials like 3V and CPM154 were less expensive.

One thing worth noting is that Niagara Specialty Metals do have a waterjet on site and can cut out blanks for you. This will reduce the shipping expense quite a bit because the blanks are lighter/smaller than a full sheet. When doing that they will quote per part rather than per sheet, and I think it works out to be very reasonable as they only quote for the material they use. They probably ship the scrap back to Crucible.
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jdm61 said:
That is cheap. Interesting that they jack it up so much on anything smaller than the full sheet. I wonder if that is an agreement with their wholesale customers like we see with some companies like Council tool where their direct to the public website price for their axes is the same "discounted retail" price as what their customers charge?
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Yeah they basically don't want to undercut their dealers, which is pretty fair. In most cases this is not an issue because the dealers will have the steel you want anyway, in the case of 4V though it's a pain as no-one carries it.

I think that buying direct from them and having them do the waterjet sounds like a good deal overall though. I would get around 64 blades from a 2x3' sheet, so the price is very reasonable on a per knife basis. I pay only slightly less for A2 (not including shipping and so on).
 
aarongough said:
Yeah they basically don't want to undercut their dealers, which is pretty fair. In most cases this is not an issue because the dealers will have the steel you want anyway, in the case of 4V though it's a pain as no-one carries it.

I think that buying direct from them and having them do the waterjet sounds like a good deal overall though. I would get around 64 blades from a 2x3' sheet, so the price is very reasonable on a per knife basis. I pay only slightly less for A2 (not including shipping and so on).
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If you have them cut say 4 or five different patterns is it the same as if they cut 1 pattern?
 
I wonder if they can shear cut a full sheet and ship the strips.


Pablo
 
With stock as thin as Aaron is talking about, it might be better have them water jet cut unless it cost a lot.
PEU said:
I wonder if they can shear cut a full sheet and ship the strips.


Pablo
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