CPM3V vs CPM4V

som steels jsut dont offer enough difference to warrant mass use. some take years to get off the ground and other never make it
if i was not so locked in on PD1 i woudl for sure try 4v
 
Darrin Sanders said:
I much prefer 4V to 3V. The toughness of 3V is overkill. Kinda like shooting squirrels with a .375 Mag.. Yeah it'll do the job but isn't needed. 4V is plenty tough enough especially in smaller to medium sized knives. Oh, and keep this in mind, I grind my knives THIN and run them HARD.
I've driven a 10V/A-11 blade .080" thick and ground to .010" thick behind the edge through seasoned, cross grain, Osage Orange/Bois d' Arc & Axis stag antler with no damage. Just a small shiny spot after the antler. That's tough enough for any job a small to medium knife will need to so. I'm telling you guys, toughness is WAY over-rated in knives.

Edited to add that the 10V blade was at 63 RC.
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Yup. :)

One would have to do something very stupid to hurt 10V (A11) from what I have personally seen in the number of knives I have in it and tested.
 
I work with 4V and if I had to choose between 3V and 4V I'd go with 4V. As Darrin said toughness is overrated. I've found 4V has better edge stability then 3V and seems to hold an edge a tad longer. It's tough enough, IMO. If you want more corrosion resistance, then 3V is better at that.
Scott
 
Gossman Knives said:
I work with 4V and if I had to choose between 3V and 4V I'd go with 4V. As Darrin said toughness is overrated. I've found 4V has better edge stability then 3V and seems to hold an edge a tad longer. It's tough enough, IMO. If you want more corrosion resistance, then 3V is better at that.
Scott
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Very overrated in knife blades from what I have seen over the years, most of it is marketing and some buy into it blindly. :rolleyes:
 
On that note, I am about to send a 12" 3V fixed blade to Paul Bos for heat treatmentand trying to figure out how high to run it so offers the best wear resistance without pushing it too high. Is 61-62 a good target?
 
TennToadsticker said:
On that note, I am about to send a 12" 3V fixed blade to Paul Bos for heat treatmentand trying to figure out how high to run it so offers the best wear resistance without pushing it too high. Is 61-62 a good target?
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What is that knife going to be used for?

12" blade?

Or OAL?

3V can get chippy in the 62 range, it's on the high side....

Depending on use and geometry, actual HT protocol etc.
 
12" OAL, general bushcraft use. It is 3/16" thick. Paul suggests 60, but along line of this discussion I thought perhaps others who know much more about this steel than I do might recommend a slightly higher number. Many thanks for any guidance.
 
TennToadsticker said:
12" OAL, general bushcraft use. It is 3/16" thick. Paul suggests 60, but along line of this discussion I thought perhaps others who know much more about this steel than I do might recommend a slightly higher number. Many thanks for any guidance.
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Yeah Paul is right for sure on that.

3V at ~60 with the high end HT will give very nice edge retention.

Better than 62 with the low temp HT.... You lose 50% edge retention with the low temp.

That is were 4V comes into it, 4V at 62+ would be hard to beat, and it's not chippy.

You can take 4V thinner and harder than 3V in general.
 
Ankerson said:
Very overrated in knife blades from what I have seen over the years, most of it is marketing and some buy into it blindly. :rolleyes:
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Marketing can do that. As far as toughness, if that is the main concern, it's hard to beat S7 steel when you want extreme toughness. You do give up wear resistance with S7.
Scott
 
Gossman Knives said:
Marketing can do that. As far as toughness, if that is the main concern, it's hard to beat S7 steel when you want extreme toughness. You do give up wear resistance with S7.
Scott
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Mouth breathers will never know the difference. LOL :D

Just give them 1/2" thick 1080 with a spring temper and .080" behind the edge.... ROFL


All they are going to do is pound on it anyway with whatever and through whatever.

That said, if that's all they want to do with a knife etc then there is plenty of cheap junk on the market they can get like $10 Matchetes from Wallyworld.... Or some fleamarket....

Personally I wouldn't waste the time and good steel on them, but that is me. ;)
 
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Ankerson said:
I have tested CPM 4V and it's VERY strong, more than strong enough that most couldn't tell the difference in 3V and 4V in MOST uses.

The problem is there aren't enough makers working with it yet to get a enough data points.

That will change however in the future as more makers work with it.
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Where are you buying it from?
 
Niagara is expensive, man. Too expensive, really. It's not as good for the price as a number of other steels.

If you could get it from another distributor for reasonable prices like 3V, then it'd be great.

Go with 3V class, 10V class, M390, or CPM 154 class until the prices become reasonable. I bought some and it's 50 bucks just for a piece of decently long Blanchard ground steel. 80 bucks for the same piece precision ground. I think I paid like 300 to 400 bucks for two 36 inch long pieces of .187" x 2" bars. It's not worth that much, not unless you have a buyer who is already willing to pay the much higher price for the finished product. But don't get me wrong. It's a great steel that ranges ALOT of functions for knives.
 
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4V is no more expensive than any other CPM steel., you just have to shop around. I won't mention names because I don't wanna get in trouble for deal spotting but I'm looking at a bar of 5/32 x 1.5 x 36 3V for $73.95 and the same bar in 4V is $72.95 so it's actually a buck cheaper. You just gotta look around for the right deal.

Also, as it gains in popularity there will be more vendors who stock it.
 
Ankerson said:
Yeah Paul is right for sure on that.

3V at ~60 with the high end HT will give very nice edge retention.

Better than 62 with the low temp HT.... You lose 50% edge retention with the low temp.

That is were 4V comes into it, 4V at 62+ would be hard to beat, and it's not chippy.

You can take 4V thinner and harder than 3V in general.
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I'm not sure what do you mean on the 60rc high end HT and 62 low temp HT?
 
shqxk said:
I'm not sure what do you mean on the 60rc high end HT and 62 low temp HT?
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Low temp tempering..... Under the recommended 800F to 1000F.....

Tempering at 400F to 500F.

One might gain toughness, but it kills edge retention.
 
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